Struggling Writers discussion
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How much of the story do you map out?
Rough comments, character analysis, timeline, Title etc choosing names, running them through the numerology chart to make sure my name 'fits' light a glove. A couple of hours work at the most then I get down to work, several chapter will go by before I write the synopsis, and even then its only a guideline, not one of Moses's Ten Commandments!
Jen wrote: "Okay so I have a lot of my story mapped out already, but considering it's in a world I created all on my own I have a looooot of background information to fill in. The thing is I don't have everyth..."I fill in major events and then there are comments scattered throughout each.
That's very close to what I do. When it's an original world, the broader part of pre-writing is designing the world and making sure I understand much of the minutiae of how it works. Otherwise, I tend to falter on bits of it.
People don't buy lies. What ever you're writing, you have to believe yourself. If you don't believe it, the reader won't believe it. If I can reason and suss things out about this world enough to where - in my mind it makes sense that it should work the way it does - then I think that makes it easier for readers.
Jp wrote: "That's very close to what I do. When it's an original world, the broader part of pre-writing is designing the world and making sure I understand much of the minutiae of how it works. Otherwise, I t..."Same here I create every aspect of this world and once I can see it in my minds eye I start writing.
I just started work on a new novel. I outlined the whole story and have a general idea of what I want to see happen, but it's not filled out much at all. I like to leave wiggle room because my characters usually take on a life of their own and have a way of showing me the story as we go along. And that outline usually meets the "delete" key at some point during the rough draft stage.Sherri Fulmer Moorer
Sherri wrote: "I just started work on a new novel. I outlined the whole story and have a general idea of what I want to see happen, but it's not filled out much at all. I like to leave wiggle room because my char..."That happens to me too, and sometimes I end up rewriting the entire thing (although I don't write to be published so that may not be a good thing to do).
Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, and I have a big action sequence prepared for a grand ending, so to speak. However, my middle starts off with just a lot of information being given through plot, then I have the start of a romance, and then finally it gets to more conflict. I fear that the middle is dragging, though. I can't just add action for entertainment sake, because that would classify it as "filler" and the romance and background info has to be given before the next piece of conflict, which can't even be classified as an action sequence. Thoughts/advice?
Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, and I have a big action sequence pre..."
Can you spread the infomation out through the begining of the book?
Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, and I have a big action sequence pre..."
A book has a beginning a muddle and an end, sounds like you've fallen in the muddle trap, you need to spice it up a little, why not bring the romance into the middle and spread the description throughout the book.
Your beginning should make the reader eager to read on but you could lose his/her interest if you allow your middle to fizzle out and you should go out with a bang rather than a whimper! And always leave your way open to continue with a sequel.
Hi guys,this s my story what i have written, so please check them and if i have any mistakes then please let me know...
Its basically from a true story
http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...
Pam wrote: "Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, and I have a big action ..."
The characters make specific discoveries in the middle of the book. i.e.: pieces of the past that happened that they had no idea had happened. I'm just going to have to think of ways to spread it out more evenly like you all said. Also, I've been writing it and it's not as bad as I feared it would be :) I know it sounded like a weird question, but actually explaining all the information in my book would take forever.
Another question: how soon before you let family and friends read your work? I know for a fact the first people to read it will be mom dad and sis but I'm not sure when it's going to happen
Jen wrote: "Pam wrote: "Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, and I have a..."
Family and friends... that's a hoot for me. I don't have friends or family who are willing to read in my genre. I have to go to total strangers! ;)
As for the process... I create an outline, a list of characters and their traits, and a reference sheet on the technologies I'm going to use. I am surprised how my lists change through the course of writing the story. The story seems to have a life of its own and always changes from my well laid plans.
Michelle wrote: "Jen wrote: "Pam wrote: "Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has a ton of action, ..."
I do find that always happens, sorta as if my characters have their own plans.
Irene wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Jen wrote: "Pam wrote: "Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of my story has ..."
Me too I make a few notes at the beginning but my characters seem to develop minds of their own and even when I take the time to write the synopsis early on by the time I get to chapter 15 I have to change it to follow my headstrong characters.
So now I just go with the flow and tailor the synopsis to fit the story line instead of the other way around.
Sarah R wrote: "Irene wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Jen wrote: "Pam wrote: "Jen wrote: "Lot of feedback is great! Thanks all. Okay instead of starting a new topic I'm just going to post a new question!The beginning of..."
Yep, makes sense. Oh, and the reading is coming along. I have started the new part and am enjoying it:)
Pam wrote: "I agree. I write with a character or characters and the scenes and plot in my head. There is no use for me to even try to write an outline because once I start writing, the words just ... come ....."Sharon reads for me, here on goodreads and Pam is right you get honest answers from people who are on the outside. Family are frightened of hurting your feelings!
I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with paranormal stuff going on so I have a lot of explaining to do. I've decided to just write the story and fill in the blanks as I go. I'm not sure I could sit down and map out the whole world straight away - it might not be needed, maybe completely superfluous to the story, or I might change my mind as I go along. I have written down some brief character biographies though. Some I developed as I was writing and some I've just written a rough outline so I can keep track of who everyone is and also so I don't describe someone as blond-haired, blue-eyed in one chapters and dark and mysterious in the next!
Apart from my basic plot outline, I come from the "write 1st, think later," school of thought.
Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with paranormal stuff going on so I have a lot of..."
Best way to be, you can sort the wheat from the chaff later, I read the chapter previous every time I go into my novel. When I first begin I read it all but at 50,000 words it takes too long.
I edit as I go too, it saves time later.
Sarah R wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with paranormal stuff going on so ..."
I can't edit as I go because then I end up never moving foward.
Irene wrote: "Sarah R wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with paranormal st..."
It's an aquired art, and one I am happy to use as it saves me time later.
Sarah R wrote: "Irene wrote: "Sarah R wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with..."
I would think so.
Pam wrote: "Irene wrote: "Sarah R wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - well ours with..."
yes I agree, Irene is reading House of Death as well as Sharon.
Sarah R wrote: "Pam wrote: "Irene wrote: "Sarah R wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I have a rough story line and plot written down. It's not even a page long - just bullet points.My story also features another world - we..."
And it is good :)
I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing. Before, I would just keep rewriting the first chapter over and over, and never move on to the second. Oddly enough, I love my second chapter and still hate the first. Here's hoping that I'll have new insight by the time I reach the end to help me with the beginning. :)As far as sharing your manuscript, I've read that you should never show your first draft to anyone...but I break that rule. I've read a lot of it to my husband, who is really helpful. He likes to drill me on the logistics of the story... "how does that work?" "why does that happen?" etc. Which is a bit annoying at times, but very helpful. I shared it with my Dad and regretted it-- he was pretty harsh (and such a grammar nut that he wouldn't even humor me and talk about the content). "first draft" didn't seem to mean much to him. I'll have to wait until I have a near finished version to show him again... so I think it depends on the person and what you're hoping to get out of their reading. Praise? criticism?
Pam wrote: "Meg wrote: "I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing. Before, I would just ke..."I really like that analogy (not that I can relate) but I think that was very nicely put.
Pam wrote: "Meg wrote: "I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing. Before, I would just ke..."Yeah, I like that one too... I may never completely understand it...given my cursed male genetic background, but, I like the way it sounds!
Pam wrote: "Meg wrote: "I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing. Before, I would just ke..."That's rather a perfect analogy... especially considering my book is about people trying to get pregnant. :)
Pam wrote: "Irene wrote: "Pam wrote: "Meg wrote: "I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing..."Yep me too, suckers for punishment, me even more so I left 21 years between the 2nd and 3rd!
Meg wrote: "Pam wrote: "Meg wrote: "I really marvel at people who can edit as they go! I wish I was capable of that. I've only gotten as far as I have in my manuscript by resolutely not editing. Before, I w..."And mine is about people getting pregnant accidentaly!
Wait... what is this thing you call 'editing'? Is it contagious? (as far as planning and plotting. There are too many levels to say yes or no to that, for me. Yes, I like to have the main themes and ideas figured out to some extent, especially if they have to fit together in a complex tableau... no, dialog, scenes, action sequences... things like that, I just write and... sometimes it changes everything.
I'm not so great I can't backtrack when I need to and do some on the spot phase shifting and editing.)
(of course, I was going to say... I never think past the page I'm working on... but a couple of you may know how that's not true. )
Curmudgeon wrote: "Wait... what is this thing you call 'editing'? Is it contagious? (as far as planning and plotting. There are too many levels to say yes or no to that, for me. Yes, I like to have the main th..."
What page I don't think I just write, comes as a shock sometimes when I look at the screen and find I can actually understand it and that my fingers having just typed gobbeldygook!
Sarah R wrote: "Curmudgeon wrote: "Wait... what is this thing you call 'editing'? Is it contagious? (as far as planning and plotting. There are too many levels to say yes or no to that, for me. Yes, I like ..."
That "Page" was metaphorical. Sometimes my one page thakes 20 or so to print. I only type one page no matter how much or how little there is. I start one page, I finish one page... so.. it must all be one page right? (or the same page). ...but, that's me.
Curmudgeon wrote: "Sarah R wrote: "Curmudgeon wrote: "Wait... what is this thing you call 'editing'? Is it contagious? (as far as planning and plotting. There are too many levels to say yes or no to that, for me..."
Sometimes my fingers fly across the keys as if possessed and other days nothing much on the days I struggle I edit it helps me pick up on any loose ends I need to tie up.
I map out pretty much everything to some extent. I have back stories for most of my characters, including side characters who arent seen much. My storty line does change every so often and the more i have mapped out the easier it is to reroute the story where i want. I have a few scenes i want to make sure i dont forget 'plotted' on paper but not to the extent i can copy and paste it right into the story when i get there, just they go here this happens which causes this and then this or that.
E. wrote: "I map out pretty much everything to some extent. I have back stories for most of my characters, including side characters who arent seen much. My storty line does change every so often and the more..."I thought I was the only one who did cut and pastes on a regualr basis :)
Oh no, if i get stuck in a story (like i currently am as a matter of fact) i will skip ahead and make a rough draft of a later part of the book, ie an important dialog or describing someone or something, and brainstorm. A few times ive got it right and could just cut and paste it when i got there.
E. wrote: "Oh no, if i get stuck in a story (like i currently am as a matter of fact) i will skip ahead and make a rough draft of a later part of the book, ie an important dialog or describing someone or som..."Yes :)
I write erratic chunks places, characters, events and then I weave them together seamlessly bringing the backdrop to the forefront and breathing life into my characters and they stories
I don't do any prewriting, story maps, or time lines. Everything stays fully in my head until it comes out on my manuscript. I find that any kind-0f run through of my ideas whether out loud or on paper actually ruins my writing. Its like I've already told my story so why do I want to write it now. I semi-edit as I go, mostly grammatical things. I have a whole half of a chapter I know I'm not happy with right now, but I'm leaving it to deal with later. I need to keep my head focused on where I'm at right now. I can't write in chunks, my story never seems to come together well that way. I find I keep the overall tone and voice of my characters if I start at the beginning and plow straight through to the end. Aside from the story I'm writing right now (which I ran the first chapter by my brother to see if it had any clout), I don't let people read my work until its finished (this is more of my husband's rule, he got tired of reading half a story and me never finishing it haha). I find I write best at night, in the dark, when the house is SUPER quiet. I can't handle many distractions (like music, TV, snoring spouses...)
I tried planning individual chapters for NaNoWriMo and it worked really well.
Adriana wrote: "I don't do any prewriting, story maps, or time lines. Everything stays fully in my head until it comes out on my manuscript. I find that any kind-0f run through of my ideas whether out loud or on p..."I used to write at 4 in the morning after my man had gonehome to get ready for work. Now I go back to bed instead and write during the day when I am alone in the house except for my dog. Lol I have three stories in the 'pending' tray, the sequel to Cally's Secret my published novel, entitled Almost Perfect which carry's on where Cally's Secret left off that's at 10,000 words, then there's Take Three Blondes also around the 10,000 word mark and then there's Growing Old Disgracefully at around 8,000. Plus the third novel I am working on at 73,000 words!
Extracts from all but Almost Perfect can be found on my writing and on my websites www.authorsarahrweldon.weebly.com and www.comingsoontosarahswall.weebly.com
That's awesome, Sarah, about your work! The two year old makes it difficult to write much during the day when I am home, and then there's the day job that helps pay the bills. But I honestly don't mind the night writing. I have on again, off again relationship with insomnia anyway haha. I do also handwrite (pencil and paper) at work while the Kindergarten kiddos take their nap (and any other time I can sneak in a paragraph or two).
Adriana wrote: "That's awesome, Sarah, about your work! The two year old makes it difficult to write much during the day when I am home, and then there's the day job that helps pay the bills. But I honestly don't ..."I tried doing that when I went anywhere but I am too easily distracted so I only write at my desk, and then I sometimes have to force myself off of Goodreads and Twitter!
We are in the process of renovating an old cottage and that has been taking up my time recently. That's where i've been for the last two hours, varnishing the staircase!
I think I need just like a feed from my brain to a computer haha. I write so much better in my head than I do on paper anyway. Would save so much time, and I wouldn't feel so blah about days I didn't get to write even a sentence.
Adriana wrote: "I think I need just like a feed from my brain to a computer haha. I write so much better in my head than I do on paper anyway. Would save so much time, and I wouldn't feel so blah about days I didn..."Don't worry if you don't write one day or one week, because the more you worry the worse the block becomes. Just do something else, bake cakes, paint the kitchen, take up hang gliding, anything but worry.
I suffered from writers block in December last year, it lasted until the beginning of this month, problems with my former publisher, pressure from my partner to confront the issue or stop writing. He's not an intellectual, he can't understand the how or the why I feel the need to write.
He even went so far as to try to ban me from writing, I calmly told him, fine, if that's what you want me to do then I expect you to give up everything you enjoy doing too, like hunting and playing palets (quoits but its a metal disc not rubber).
That shut him up!
I've tried mapping out stories all the way and then lost the will to write them. I write much better if I just go with the flow. It usually starts with an idea and grows from there. If I like my characters (and I've had characters I didn't like at all and they're very hard to write believably) the story mostly writes itself. :) All credit goes to my muse. She's very active. :)
Pia Cathrin wrote: "I've tried mapping out stories all the way and then lost the will to write them. I write much better if I just go with the flow. It usually starts with an idea and grows from there. If I like my ch..."My muse is quiet at the moment, romantic ghost stories aren't his bag I'm afraid, he would have me spend my time writing murder thrillers, the bloodier, the better. Sometimes you have to listen to your own inner voice. I map my stories loosely in a synopsis, which I change to fit the story and I've never had a character I didn't like that I couldn't kill off asap. Best way to deal with those type of characters n'est ce pas?
Do you guys prefer to have every piece planned ahead or to let your mind take you where it wants to go? I suppose there are advantages and disadvantages to both.