Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Apr 2012: COMMENTS/QUESTIONS FOR ON-AIR MONDAY POST HERE!
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Patrick wrote: "...you've chosen a novel in which Rhys's defining personality trait is his obsessive desire to possess..."We didn't pick the book as a group...so that's WTF. Next month, the romantic interested isn't going to be an alpha (or so I've heard), which could possibly make people who like alphas disappointing, but people who hate alphas happy.
You can't please everyone all the time.
Thanks to Felicia, I've started exploring this genre, but I'm very new to it still. The only thing I've read is the Raine Benares books, which I love. So it's jumping into a new world with tropes I'm unfamiliar with.I agree with Felicia's review completely. I loved everything about the book, especially the world, except Rhys. Not just his mindset, which I guess is what's classified as "alpha" in the genre, but the way he was written and his perspective, especially in the beginning of the book. As a man, I was borderline offended reading him. He was all "shag shag shag, she's mine, I love power!" I expected him to pee on her to mark his territory at one point. I guess that this is consistent with his past. But still, the stories from his point of view felt very one-dimensional.
Not that I expected him to understand his own growing emotions. He was, after all, a pirate and a captain, a man who had been used and used the world in return.
An aspect of the book that is very interesting is that both Mina and Rhys had been victims of sexual assault. In Mina's case, it was heart-wrenchingly explored, but with Rhys, there were only passing references. I think that this helps explain his personality and actions. Exploring these emotions might have helped make him less of a one-dimensional penis-thing.
But I did love the book, and I loved Mina. I'll definitely pick the second one up.
Did I miss something, or were Yasmeen's tufted pointy ears never explained? I'm new to steampunk, so perhaps this is a "thing" in steampunk that people familiar with the genre will get, but I did not pick up what the deal with the ears was. Speaking of Yasmeen, can we talk about her throwing Archimedes Fox overboard? I thought the author was building up something there with the Fox character, especially when Yasmeen waited for him a whole week. And then, when he finally showed up, she just tossed him overboard and that was that. I mean, I know he threatened her life and tried to take over the airship, but still...it was quite abrupt. And then we find out that he FOUND the Da Vinci sketch! ...and it's never mentioned again. Perhaps these things are elaborated upon in the next book in the series?
One last unrelated thing. Was anyone else like "Whaaaaa?!" at Mina and Rhys's not-quite-sex on the DECK of the airship?! Sure, Rhys threatened the crew member's eyeballs if they looked...but STILL. Those people were there. And they had ears. :P
Overall, loved reading the book. Very enjoyable. But there we definitely certain moments leaving me going, "...huh?"
Overall, I think the Iron Duke was a good read. Being an avid reader of romance, I found this book had just the right amount of sexy scenes to keep me interested. I also enjoyed the characters - even Rhys. Call me crazy, but I wasn't bothered at all by the Duke's domineering personality as I feel like it added spice to the story. The book did not feel too "rapey" to me either. As a few others have mentioned, I also felt like the book got off to a pretty slow start, which is my only complaint. Being a first-time reader of a steampunk themed novel, I would have liked a better explanation about their world right from the beginning. I felt "lost" at times, being overwhelmed with too much information that was either uninteresting to me or didn't quite make sense yet.
Jonathan wrote: "An aspect of the book that is very interesting is that both Mina and Rhys had been victims of sexual assault. In Mina's case, it was heart-wrenchingly explored, but with Rhys, there were only passing references. I think that this helps explain his personality and actions. Exploring these emotions might have helped make him less of a one-dimensional penis-thing."Good point. I don't recall seeing poor Rhys's sexual trauma mentioned in any threads, so I was starting to wonder if I imagined that aspect of the book (or confused it with another). I guess because, as you said, it is only hinted at a few times. So it did sort of feel like a quick way to add a touch of depth and vulnerability to him . . . something to justify his need for power and control ("He's not just an alpha dick! There are good reasons! In his past!").
I thoroughly enjoyed the book, but the balance of power was pretty heavily weighted toward Rhys: he's physically large and he's in a position of authority (though so is Mina, which is nice). But, I mean, HE is MADE OF IRON. How about the part where he said he would take Mina to find her brother only if she accepted the offer to share his bed? I know he felt justified because he thought he was buying time to win her over, but given that she's a little sensitive about being called a "jade whore" all the time, it seemed in poor taste.
But mostly I decided to ignore all that and just enjoy the deliciously steamy adventure. (Clearly, as I ordered the sequel immediately after finishing finishing it.)
Molly wrote: "Did I miss something, or were Yasmeen's tufted pointy ears never explained? I'm new to steampunk, so perhaps this is a "thing" in steampunk that people familiar with the genre will get, but I did n..."This was my first foray into steampunk, too, but it was quickly followed by the sequel. And yes, Yasmeen's ears are explained in that one! I also felt like the balance of power was more even in the sequel, but maybe that is just because the lady is in control in that one!
Molly wrote: "One last unrelated thing. Was anyone else like "Whaaaaa?!" at Mina and Rhys's not-quite-sex on the DECK of the airship?! Sure, Rhys threatened the crew member's eyeballs if they looked...but STILL. Those people were there. And they had ears. :P "
Perhaps a little something for the exhibitionists and/or voyeurs in the crowd?
Emily wrote: I don't recall seeing poor Rhys's sexual trauma mentioned in any threads, so I was starting to wonder if I imagined that aspect of the book (or confused it with another). I guess because, as you said, it is only hinted at a few times. "THIS is something that I think the VFH quartet should discuss. He definitely did have a traumatic youth and it did have an impact on his perspective. Did the author give it short shrift - was there actually less time in the novel spent on it or was the general reader response simply... less... to it? (e.g. in the frustration over Rhys' treatment of/attitudes towards Mina, did the general discussion ignore/overlook the treatment of/attitudes towards him?)
I am sorry if someone already asked this... But there are some similarities between the books. One of which I have started referring to as the GBF trope (gay best friend) there is always one... Not that I didn't love both Scarsdale and Lord Akeldama.And did anyone else notice that both of the "Alpha" males in these stories pretty much had a handler that made them be polite? What is with the man's men? Do you think it is based on the whole Sherlock and Watson relationship (hey they are the most popular victorian books!).
I thought I liked Mina until I met Alexia! I felt That Carriger was much better at her character development and Brook was better at the world building (and steam punky description). What did you think?
Daeja wrote: "THIS is something that I think the VFH quartet should discuss. He definitely did have a traumatic youth and it did have an impact on his perspective. Did the author give it short shrift - was there actually less time in the novel spent on it or was the general reader response simply... less... to it? (e.g. in the frustration over Rhys' treatment of/attitudes towards Mina, did the general discussion ignore/overlook the treatment of/attitudes towards him?) "I felt that she gave most of him short thrift, not just this. He was never fully fleshed out as a character, in the beginning he was only a need to shag and possess, and when he started to grow a bit as a character, it was still only in hints. It's hard to empathise with a one-dimensional character, and I guess this is why his past has received less attention in the discussions.
Maybe that's what the author intended, though? Like I said, I'm new to the genre. I haven't read any alphas before. Are they supposed to be condensed lust and need, with power added, and less emotional depth? It does let you focus more on Mina and identify with her struggle. And I can see how making him less fleshed out may make him more sexy, if you're into aggressive male sexuality. Not my cup of tea, though! And it's something I associate more with erotica than romance, I prefer to be able to understand, believe in and empathise with both characters.
I read both, and I think I liked the Iron Duke's world better - the history with the nano agents piqued my interest more than the soul theory(?) in Soulless.I'll continue reading both series though - on top of Nalini Singh's Guild Hunter series recommended in earlier hangouts.
I didn't feel like the Iron Duke was too rapey - but that may be because I've read a lot of old school romances where that was very common. I thought the scenes were pretty hot.
It's interesting to see responses from guys - I can see why they might be offended at Rhys' somewhat one-dimensional character - I think she could have fleshed him out a little more.
Ending - I agree - I was expecting some epic battle - but it went from the Vitruvian sinking to the Endeavour nothing but floating planks a little too quickly. If it's a case of the author not being able to tackle naval battles - she should DEFINITELY read the Master and Commander series for a good example.
I'd love a book on Scarsdale, or at least a short story - I want to know what happens to his marriage.
Newberry - apparently his marriage to Temperance is covered in an anthology called Wild and Steamy - will have to pick that up :)
Once I got into the book, I really liked it. I will say though that the beginning was...horrible! lol "You are too amused. I doubt anyone will break into fisticuffs." I thought that was reaching a bit far.Also, I kind of felt like Meljean was a Jane Austen fan. (I LOVE Jane Austen!) There were a couple of phrases I felt were lifted from J.A. book :-)
I will say the whole "now, take off your nightgown and let me finish dinner" parts didn't really fit Rhys. It was a little awkward. It was the same with the "I'm going to shag you now" stuff ^^ Just do it...why say it?
I agree that the ending happened rather quickly, but so many books are like that, so I was not bothered.
I feel like after all their stressful and dangerous events together, they could speak how they really felt. I think it was appropriate that they were apart for so long. This gave them both time to really think and prepare for the rest of their lives ;-)
Taking in Anne was great because we know that even if they cannot have children (they still may be able to), they will have Anne.
Oh, I forgot until you started talking about her mom's shame when Mina was born, but one of the things that impressed me was how awesome her dad was! He didn't mind that her biological dad was a Horde dude. He loved her and treated her like his own. They seemed to have a really good relationship.
I feel stupid for asking this, but... who exactly IS the Horde? Was it ever really explained?
I've read both of the books for next month already, as has my husband. These are both great books by great authors, and I look forward to the discussion!
Mod
Woot! If you have other suggestions in the genre I just started a topic!
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. To me 'sex' and 'quim' at least sound like good spur of the moment words. Vagina's one of those words that makes me feel about as sexy as a biology class diagram
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. To me 'sex' and 'quim' at least sound like good spur of the moment words. Vagina's one of those words that makes me feel about as sexy as a biology class diagram
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For me, one of the most interesting elements of the Iron Duke was the way in which the steam-punk setting elements were tailored to serve the romance. The most obvious example is the nanobot element: what is it for? It answers the plot problem "Once Mina and Rhys get together, why don't they just do it?" (A: Because nanobot trauma gave Mina control issues.)
If not for the rather pragmatic use of the steam punk elements to serve the romance, I would have found the lack of internal inconsistency super-annoying. I mean, really, who goes out of their way to say "Rich folk use candles because gas is dirt cheap" in the first chapter, and then tacks on a coal hopper to every car on the road?