Books & Discussion on the Holocaust Showing 351-400 of 1,027

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Lilo wrote: "I am also drowning in TBRs. My latest course of action is to have about half a dozen of books lined up to be read as absolute priorities and pick other books at random to be read in between.

And ..."

Biergarten, Bierhalle, bierkeller, brauerei, brauhaus and German pubs...love them Lilo you can't beat them ;)

[Manray9]

Geevee wrote: "Lilo wrote: "I am also drowning in TBRs. My latest course of action is to have about half a dozen of books lined up to be read as absolute priorities and pick other books at random to be read in be..."

My father owned two taverns, so much of my misspent youth was in taprooms – and racetracks too.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Oh dear, no wonder you ended up in the navy :)

[Manray9]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Oh dear, no wonder you ended up in the navy :)"

My father was a navy man too. No wonder he ended up in the tavern business.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Makes perfect sense :)

[Lilo]

Geevee wrote: "Lilo wrote: "I am also drowning in TBRs. My latest course of action is to have about half a dozen of books lined up to be read as absolute priorities and pick other books at random to be read in be..."

To be honest, I love them, too. Unfortunately, I am allergic to tobacco smoke. So after 10 pneumonias (most of them resulting from inhaling smoke), I had to give them up.

I would like to quote Wilhelm Busch: "Sie haben alles hinter sich und sind, gottlob, recht tugendlich." ("They have experienced everything in their past and are -- praise God -- quite virtuous.")

[Lilo]

Hey guys, you are supposed to talk about the Holocaust and not linger in your bad drinking habits. :-)

[Manray9]

Lilo wrote: "Hey guys, you are supposed to talk about the Holocaust and not linger in your bad drinking habits. :-)"

My apologies.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Manray and Rick you made me smile. Lilo you are right though and so we should move our pub chat to the break out area - first in buys.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

And to bring this thread back to its correct area I saw this in a London bookshop and wondered if anyone has read it?

Women and Nazis: Perpetrators of Genocide and Other Crimes During Hitler's Regime, 1933-1945 by Wendy Adele-Marie Sarti

[Lilo]

I'll see you in the break out area. :-)

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Are you bringing a nice bottle of beer with you Lilo?

[Lilo]

Sure! Pfaffenhofen's Muellerbraeu.

[Allison]

Just added a handful of Holocaust books to my tbr list. Nervous. Some of them come with the warning "this is the most disturbing thing I've ever read". I know that comes with the subject matter but I hope I can handle them. I don't want to NOT read them.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

It is odd isn't it that we know the subject matter is not pleasant and yet we also have to read them.

[Allison]

Yes. I didn't feel good about adding them to my list even though not reading them feels wrong too. Very odd indeed.

[Marc]

'Escape, Evasion and Revenge' is my biography of the only German Jew known to have flown RAF bombers against his own country during WW2. As an enemy alien living in London, he committed identity theft in order to enlist, and was the object of a British Police manhunt as a possible German spy.

Shot down after 22 missions, he spent 3 years and 8 months as a POW in his own country, without any protection under the Geneva Convention.

Escaping became his raison d'etre, and he made 8 attempts, getting outside the wire 3 times. On one of his escapes, he made his way to his mother's home in Hannover, looking for money, food and civilian clothing, only to learn that she had committed suicide just before the outbreak of hostilities.

After liberation, he became one of only 69 members of the RAF to be awarded the Military Cross in WW2, as one of the most ardent escapers of the war. He went on to serve as an MI6 operative in Germany, spying against the Soviets at the outbreak of the Cold War (1947-52).

I am very proud to say that he was my father, and I knew almost none of this when he died in 1979. He never told his own family that he'd been born Jewish. It took me almost 20 years of research to put his story together. He is now mentioned in at least 10 books about WW2 escapers.

Here is a link to an academic review of my book:

http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vol12...

Thanks for your interest.

Marc Stevens
Toronto

[Robert]

Marc wrote: "


'Escape, Evasion and Revenge' is my biography of the only German Jew known to have flown RAF bombers against his own country during WW2. As an ene..."


Looks fascinating, Marc. Thanks for calling it to our attention.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks for posting Marc, and then to see the man in question was your father makes it more special as your telling his story is valuable to the RAF's history of holders of the MC from WWII. I imagine the story was hard to research and at times frustratingly slow, but I guess you must of had some nerve tingling moments as you uncovered and corroborated details and events.

[Marc]

Geevee wrote: "Thanks for posting Marc, and then to see the man in question was your father makes it more special as your telling his story is valuable to the RAF's history of holders of the MC from WWII. I imag..."

Thanks for your kind words, Geevee. In fact, you pretty well summed up 18 years of research in a couple of lines. Agonizingly slow progress, followed by moments of jaw-dropping stupefication.

Finding the file at the National Archives with his MC recommendation was pretty cool, as well as meeting two of his Air Gunners, each of whom commended Dad for saving their lives (and one of whom named his only son after my Dad), followed by the Piece de Resistance: learning of a National Archives file just about Dad marked "Secret - Sealed until 2051", then getting it opened early (Dec 2006) using the Freedom of Information Act. Had to buy more bandages for the bottom of my chin (as it kept hitting the floor).

And, of course, being contacted in 2012 by the niece of another of Dad's Air Gunners (Sgt Ivor Fraser), sadly killed over Berlin on Dad's last operation when his parachute failed to open. I'd been searching for his family for 20 years to pass along my late father's most sincere regrets. A very emotional meeting, that was, at the Bomber Command Memorial in London.

Marc

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks for replying Marc I appreciate the information. I have added the book to my TBR. The Bomber Command memorial is a real sight to see isn't it.

Have you claimed your father's Bomber Command clasp, which was approved for issue (finally) last year? Just in case not here's the link that provides a downloadable application form: http://www.veterans-uk.info/arctic_st...

[Marc]

Thanks, Geevee, the application for Dad's clasp was submitted long ago. No sign of it yet, but I'm hoping to receive it soon.

And yes, the Bomber Command Memorial is indeed spectacular. I only learned, after sending a copy of my book to Philip Jackson (the sculptor) in thanks, that HIS father was also a Bomber Command pilot.

Marc

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Escape, Evasion and Revenge added TBR. Looks like an amazing story.

[Lilo]

I received the following message from my German GR friend Matt, today:

Disturbing News
message: Hi Lilo

In case you missed my status update:

Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' Surges in E-Book Sales
Full article on ABC News
Who the hell wants to read this sh*t? Still banned in Germany.

https://www.goodreads.com/user_status...

You might like to spread the word in your groups.

Best wishes
Matt

[Allison]

Lilo wrote: "I received the following message from my German GR friend Matt, today:

Disturbing News
message: Hi Lilo

In case you missed my status update:

Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' Surges in E-Book Sales
Full ar..."

I think its studied in a lot of psychology classes and by criminal justice students!

[Lilo]

@ Allie:

And it is all right for students and history buffs to read it. The problem is only: It shouldn't get into the hands of neo-Nazis, Nazi-romantics, and other weirdos. And i am afraid that this is what's going to happen.

[Miss M]

How grotesque that it's all part of the ebook 'revolution'...

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014...

http://www.theguardian.com/books/book...

[Lewis]

There is evidence that the German authorities sometimes permit what I believe is a glorification of Hitler. See my post on my author blog regarding the exhibit "Terror and Fascination" at the Nazi Center Museum in Nuremberg ... http://lewweinsteinauthorblog.com/201...

[Colin]

I see this differently, as an author and historian. I think Mein Kampf should be read by everyone, with a caveat stating "serving as a warning to us all."

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

For my own part I see this as a challenge [the sale of Mein Kampf or its like] in that banning books or censorship (sale, format and language printed in) is not what is wanted by most - and of course is what happened in 1930s Germany.

To read this book within its historical context adds to the knowledge of what came after politically and militarily and as such is part of people's ability to learn; but anything freely available means access to and conclusions from it will see a wide range of interpretations. I believe it is those interpretations that can be governed by a country's laws and people's acceptance of them or not.

Parallel to this is the continued study, publicity and remembrance of this war's progress and outcomes for all people's, including the Jews, so that the Second World War continues to show what happens when a regime's status becomes a dictatorship and foreign policy and domestic motivation is racial and conducted as though it is right and true.

[Chin Joo]

Geevee wrote: "To read this book within its historical context adds to the knowledge of what came after politically and militarily and as such is part of people's ability to learn"

Well said Geevee.

I have a copy of it sitting on my shelf. It is not high on my TBR list but I think I should read it at some point. In fact I was even about to ask members here for a recommendation of the best translation when I came across a used copy. As Germany is a faraway land from Singapore, the stigma attached to reading it is not so significant; that also means that not many people here are interested in the book.

I think it is important to read this book (safe for me to say here) just like I was excited to get my hands on a copy of Ishiwara Kanji's thesis on "The Final Battle". But we have to get the context right before reading. I wanted to know the thoughts of these people and to see how they resulted in the eventual tragedies. It is possible that without such education, we may just repeat everything they've done. It may also be delusional, but I hope to be able to recognise these people when I see them.

[Lewis]

Anyone who read Mein Kampf at the time cannot claim to have been ignorant of Hitler's intentions, and millions of copies were in circulation, in Germany, in the U.S., at the Vatican.

[Lilo]

Colin wrote: "I see this differently, as an author and historian. I think Mein Kampf should be read by everyone, with a caveat stating "serving as a warning to us all.""

Oh, my, Colin! Who is "everyone"? "Everyone" includes neo-Nazis, Nazi-romantics, immature youth, and all kinds of mentally disturbed weirdos. You don't want THEM to read "Mein Kampf". Besides, the first few pages of "Mein Kampf" will probably be enough for educational purposes. They were for me. I had to stop reading so not to get chronic gastritis.

Btw, "serving as a warning to us all" won't help. Just read the mind-boggling memoir "When I Was German", by Alan Wynzel. He became obsessed with WWII and war games, even though the war comic books he was addicted to had the warning "Make no more war" in every issue.

[Lilo]

Lewis wrote: "Anyone who read Mein Kampf at the time cannot claim to have been ignorant of Hitler's intentions, and millions of copies were in circulation, in Germany, in the U.S., at the Vatican."

As far as I know, the purchase of "Mein Kampf" was mandatory during the Third Reich, just as it was mandatory to purchase a Hitler-portrait and hang it in your living room. (Maybe it was only mandatory in my hometown, which was a particular "Nazi-nest".)

My family had been forced to buy a Hitler-portrait before my birth, but instead of hanging it in the living room, they stored it in the attic, always afraid that they might be found out.

I remember only too well when my family was forced to buy "Mein Kampf", some time during WWII. They were furious about being forced to buy this book. They just peeked in it, probably read a few pages, raved about its contents, and then this book was stuck away. They got rid of "Mein Kampf" as soon as it was safe to do so, that is, right after the war had ended.

My family was so disgusted with all the Hitler speeches (and even more the Goebbels speeches) from the radio that they would not have read the whole of "Mein Kampf" if you paid them.

The copy I came across (in the 1970s) was from the family of my 1st husband. I think they had also been forced to buy this book, but I cannot tell for sure. And I don't know if my father-in-law (the only reader in the family) had read it. We never talked politics, but from what I heard, I think my 1st husband's family were also non-Nazis.

[Lilo]

Lewis wrote: "There is evidence that the German authorities sometimes permit what I believe is a glorification of Hitler. See my post on my author blog regarding the exhibit "Terror and Fascination" at the Nazi ..."

From what I take from your correspondence with the museum director of this exhibit in Nuremberg, it is, indeed, a glorification of Hitler. I wish everyone would read your blogs, and especially this one.

[Lilo]

Geevee wrote: "For my own part I see this as a challenge [the sale of Mein Kampf or its like] in that banning books or censorship (sale, format and language printed in) is not what is wanted by most - and of cour..."

This is all nice and well for people who have a few brain cells. But unfortunately, there are so many who don't.

You are right, of course, censorship is a tricky thing, and before you know it, it can turn into something really bad.

I am less worried about the book being available. I am more worried about that so many people buy it. I doubt that so many people wish to educate themselves. Let's hope that those who don't are only bargain hunters who may never even read the book.

The general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) is towards anti-Semitism and trivializing Hitler. Just look at the success of this book "Er ist wieder da" (at Euro 27.-- surely no bargain). This mediocre humorous book (I read the excerpt and have talked to a German who read half of it before tossing it) is clearly trivializing and even humanizing Hitler.

Considering all of these developments, I don't think it only history buffs, history scholars, and truth-seekers who buy "Mein Kampf".

[Lilo]

Chin Joo wrote: "Geevee wrote: "To read this book within its historical context adds to the knowledge of what came after politically and militarily and as such is part of people's ability to learn"

Well said Geeve..."

Make sure you take an antacid before starting to read the book, as you most likely will feel nauseated.

It might be a "short read" because you will probably toss it as soon as you realize that it repeats itself. I only read a few pages because I found that it was always the same nauseating bla bla.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Lilo wrote: "Geevee wrote: "For my own part I see this as a challenge [the sale of Mein Kampf or its like] in that banning books or censorship (sale, format and language printed in) is not what is wanted by mos..."

Lilo I disagree with your statement "The general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) is towards anti-Semitism and trivializing Hitler".

[Lewis]

Geevee wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Geevee wrote: "For my own part I see this as a challenge [the sale of Mein Kampf or its like] in that banning books or censorship (sale, format and language printed in) is not what is ..."

I have seen evidence to the contrary ... see the post on my author blog ... http://lewweinsteinauthorblog.com/201...

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

I still challenge and disagree with Lilo's post in its generality in stating "of the general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) towards anti-Semitism and trivialising Hitler.

Some do of course but all? It's a big leap and not something that can be substantiated by the popularity of a book's sale or by one exhibition's interpretation

I have not seen anti-Semitism in my day to day life in Britain nor indeed in my travels in Europe. My local council, with no large Jewish population nor historic connection outside Jews living here for hundreds of years like many nationalities and faiths have, commemorates Holocaust Day every year very publicly as do many others civic organisations and people in Britain.

I find the statement plain wrong.

[Lewis]

Check this out ... http://www.third-reich-books.com/
Is this research, history, or propaganda?
I find it frightening.

[Tionne]

Geevee wrote: "I still challenge and disagree with Lilo's post in its generality in stating "of the general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) towards anti-Semitism and trivialising Hitler.

Some do ..."

I don't live in Europe, nor have I ever visited, (not yet) but I have to say from watching the BBC and Deutche Welle and other international news I would have to agree with Geevee. I don't claim to have a 'feel' for what is going on in Europe, but I have heard little anti-Semitism in the news from there in the last 10 years. Of course there are bits here and there, but honestly, that kind of news makes headlines and would definitely reach the states if there were more of it going on. I've seen anti-Semitism here in America. You are going to have it wherever there are pieces of ignorant trash throwing opinions around. That doesn't mean that the entire US is becoming Anti-Semitic. I think it is too broad of a generalization to make.

[Allison]

I worked for a Jewish family business in Detroit, which is right next to Dearborn (the city with the highest population of Arabs outside the Middle East), all I had to do was answer the phone to hear all the anti-Semitism one could ever handle!!!!! If anti-Semitism is running rampant, its here in the States unfortunately.

[Lilo]

Geevee wrote: "I still challenge and disagree with Lilo's post in its generality in stating "of the general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) towards anti-Semitism and trivialising Hitler.

Some do ..."

I didn't make it up, Geevee. I took it from an article in the online version of the German newspaper "Die Zeit", which is not some boulevard paper but THE paper for German intellectuals.

I am NOT saying that ALL Germans or Europeans go in this directions, I am only saying that there is such a tendency, and I don't think that I am wrong here.

It wasn't ALL Germans either that allowed the Third Reich to happen during the 1920s and early 1930s.

Don't forget, a very active minority can overrun a sleeping majority before you know it.

There is one thing that people always seem to forget: By the time an evil development is fully recognized and acknowledged, it is usually too late to do something about it (without risking one's life). That's why I keep repeating: "Wehret den Anfaengen!" (Nip things in the bud.), even if I already sound like a Tibetian prayer mill.

And don't forget another thing, Geevee: People usually move around in the same circles. If you had only met the friends of our family, during WWII, you might have thought that there wasn't a single Nazi in all of Germany. Thus, I absolutely believe that you didn't meet any anti-Semites.

[Lilo]

Lewis wrote: "Check this out ... http://www.third-reich-books.com/
Is this research, history, or propaganda?
I find it frightening."

I just went to this link. It confirms your and my concerns.

When I did research for my memoir (checking out the SS-criminals that had lived in our neighborhood), I also came across neo-Nazis wherever I went on the internet.

The recent development IS disturbing, and it is growing.

[Manray9]

Tionne wrote: "Geevee wrote: "I still challenge and disagree with Lilo's post in its generality in stating "of the general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) towards anti-Semitism and trivialising Hi..."

I lived in Moscow in the Nineties. Rightist political groups were flourishing, complete with anti-Semitic diatribes and anti-immigrant violence. Friends in Kiev tell me there are neo-Nazi hate groups very active in the Ukraine now.

[Tionne]

No one is saying it doesn't exist. Or that it is inconsequential. I just think that the accusation was a bit sweeping and general. I've read The Zeit. It's a great paper. I just think that the idea that it is running rampant through Europe was a bit much. But hey, I could be wrong. I hope I'm not, and not because of my pride. You could look at the horrid underbelly of any town. Doesn't mean the entire continent is swerving toward that way.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

I appreciate the views and the discussion here. As I said there will be people (who are wishing to persecute others based on religion, colour or a raft of other things) all over the world and in some countries the historic, social or economic conditions aid that. I just disagree with a statement that says there is a tendency in all of Europe to anti-Semitism and trivialise Hitler.

It lumps me as a anti-Semite by extension and I'm not comfortable with that.

Consider an alternative angle of Lilo's comment: Americans know some in their country are racist and want segregation - yet would it be right to say there is a tendency in all of America for racism and segregation?

Of course not...and hence why I disagree with the comment.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Some good comments and points being made in this discussion which is one that can be quite emotive for many people and I'm glad to see that no one has over stepped the mark during the discussions, thanks for all that contributed.

[Robert]

Lilo wrote: "Geevee wrote: "I still challenge and disagree with Lilo's post in its generality in stating "of the general tendency in Germany (or actually all of Europe) towards anti-Semitism and trivialising Hi..."

Lilo, your views and insights are very important, particularly given your personal background. We all appreciate that you take the time to share them! This topic will never cease to be important. WWII was the most terrible event in human history so far as man-made events are concerned and responsibility for it lies directly at the feet of Hitler. Another like him must never again be allowed to take root.