Books & Discussion on the Holocaust Showing 551-600 of 1,027

[Bevan Lewis]

75th anniversary of the Wannsee Conference. Here's a good piece on its significance by Roger Moorhouse http://historian-at-large.blogspot.co...

[J.]

Bevan wrote: "75th anniversary of the Wannsee Conference. Here's a good piece on its significance by Roger Moorhouse http://historian-at-large.blogspot.co..."

A good analysis. The statement therein about, "endemic administrative infighting within the Third Reich, where rival agencies often competed in a quasi-Darwinian struggle to gain favour and status" agrees with Schellenberg's account. He describes his desk as equipped with a pair of submachine guns arranged to rake the area in front of him at the push of a lever. Some consider this a fabrication, but it's fully consistent with the atmosphere described in the link.

[Colin]

I interviewed Gerhard Klopfer, the only living participant in the Jan 20, 142 Wannsee Conference. The film Conspiracy is a must see and very accurate. Karl Wolff also provided many details of what he knew as well.

[J.]

Colin wrote: "I interviewed Gerhard Klopfer, the only living participant in the Jan 20, 142 Wannsee Conference. The film Conspiracy is a must see and very accurate. Karl Wolff also provided many details ..."

Gen. Wolff was a central figure in Hitler's headquarters for much of the war, Wolff was far more knowledgeable of and involved in Nazi atrocities than he ever admitted. A realist, he conspired (the best word) in 1945 with Allen Dulles to arrange for the early surrender of about one million Axis troops. I've read Dulles's account of the incident: The Secret Surrender: The Classic Insider's Account of the Secret Plot to Surrender Northern Italy During WWII

[Jonny]

Just finished the chapter on appeasement in Ferguson's The War of the World, after his chapter on fascism. What was interesting (and worrying) was no what we already know of Germany, but the attitudes of the rest of Europe, in terms of anti-Semitic attitude on mainland Europe and institutional blinkeredness. Apparently the British government heavy handedly ordered the press(including the BBC) to tone down reports from Germany. Admittedly all in support of his thesis, but scary and shaming ask the same.

[zed]

Jonny wrote: "Just finished the chapter on appeasement in Ferguson's The War of the World, after his chapter on fascism. What was interesting (and worrying) was no what we already know of Germany, ..."


I have only read Empire but have watched a few TV shows including this one. I don't mind his work but the spin is constantly telling us it is "ground breaking" but I hardly ever think that.

[Jonny]

4triplezed wrote: "Jonny wrote: "Just finished the chapter on appeasement in Ferguson's The War of the World, after his chapter on fascism. What was interesting (and worrying) was no what we already kno..."

No, I'm mainly thinking "I came up with that ages ago". I've only ever seen him once, the BBC did a couple of programmes in 2014 on the centenary of the outbreak of WW1. Max Hastings was excellent, I managed about 5 minutes of Ferguson and gave up. Still, not a bad little book for the price of a Mars Bar...

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Below are some recent reviews on the new book by Laurence Rees; The Holocaust. It sounds like a must have book for anyone interested in this terrible subject.

The Holocaust: A New History by Laurence Rees

Reviews:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/b...

[Bevan Lewis]

It does sound good. The History Extra podcast and Dan Snow have both done interesting (although repetitive, only need to listen to one!) interviews with Laurence Rees who has done some valuable work.

http://www.historyextra.com/podcast/L...

It is a shame we have two good general histories out very close to gether. Although I do want to read David Cesarani's book as others are tackling that I'll read Mr Rees effort on the group read. I'm also going to tackle Martin Gilbert's first book on the holocaust as a tribute to that august historian and his work on the subject.

[Jarrod]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Below are some recent reviews on the new book by Laurence Rees; The Holocaust. It sounds like a must have book for anyone interested in this terrible subject.

[bookcover:The Holocaust: A New Histo..."

I've read the Rees' book. I bought it at the Holocaust museum in DC 3 years ago. It's worth every minute you spend reading it.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I've read two of his books on the Holocaust but not this new one (which I've just ordered).

Auschwitz, The Nazis and The 'Final Solution' by Laurence Rees

Their Darkest Hour by Laurence Rees

[J.]

i'm partway into David Cesarani's book. It's heavy going, but helps me fill in the gaps. At 1016 pages, it's unlikely I'll finish, even if I skip the 220 pages of notes and index. My reaction, so far: Events in Germany after WWI seem to be an inevitable chain reaction. The blockade, the Treaty of Versailles, the Communists, the resignation of the Kaiser, the '29 crash, the inflation, and so on and on, all these things removed any stability Germany had. The result was fertile soil for sowing "the demonic seeds" that Schertel spoke of. I'm almost convinced that it's true that if it hadn't been Hitler, it would have been someone else.

[Dimitri]

J. wrote: " it's unlikely I'll finish, even if I skip the 220 pages of notes and index. "
That's how non-fiction always cheats the Goodreads meter for number of pages read in a year! Exceptionally, my longest book for 2016 (Deadpool Classic Omnibus Vol. 1 was a cover-to-cover 1300 pages.

[Mikey B.]

Dimitri wrote: "J. wrote: " it's unlikely I'll finish, even if I skip the 220 pages of notes and index. "
That's how non-fiction always cheats the Goodreads meter for number of pages read in a year! Exceptionally,..."

Good One!!

[Colin]

J. wrote: "Colin wrote: "I interviewed Gerhard Klopfer, the only living participant in the Jan 20, 142 Wannsee Conference. The film Conspiracy is a must see and very accurate. Karl Wolff also provided many de..."

I knew Wolff, not well, but met him twice for interviews. He was rather candid about many thing. I guess since he was over 80 years of age he had nothing to really hide. See one of his comments in my book The Star of Africa, and also Occupation and Insurgency.

[J.]

I found an interesting new preface to Ron Rosenbaum's book, Explaining Hitler. It's very long, but has a lot of information.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/h...

Has anyone read Explaining Hitler?

[Bevan Lewis]

Somehow I missed this book but have grabbed it. Very good piece, a great summary of the current state of play in attempts to understand Hitler.

[J.]

Bevan wrote: "Somehow I missed this book but have grabbed it. Very good piece, a great summary of the current state of play in attempts to understand Hitler."

Rosenbaum is very thorough scholar, but the July, 2014, update is not necessarily current. In the "new" afterword, he states:

"...The search for the origin of Hitler’s evil... has not turned up much that can be called illuminating since Explaining Hitler’s [original] publication...."

If you want a perhaps more illuminating answer, a "novel" attempt to explain the psychology behind the Holocaust, see my historical novel, which also explains how easily Hitler got away with murdering his niece.
In the Mouth of the Lion

[Manray9]

I stumbled across this article today. Rather damning. Perhaps Petain should have stood alongside Pierre Laval in October of '45?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

[J.]

Manray9 wrote: "I stumbled across this article today. Rather damning. Perhaps Petain should have stood alongside Pierre Laval in October of '45?

Perhaps. But there is room for some doubt as to the soundness of Pétain's mind, as well as the origins of the changes in the document. Regardless of "experts'" evaluations, notes and signatures can be forged or forced, elicited by threats, undue influence, or, in the case of someone with reduced mental capacity, simple suggestion.

Pétain was well into his 80's when he was made Chief of State of the Vichy puppet government. The document in question was signed in October, 1940. As early as May, 1940, Pétain had told others that his memory was failing. He could no longer retain new information and was known to sign documents without reading them.

By June, 1940, Pétain no longer was able to recognize Colonel Beigbeder, the Spanish minister of Foreign Affairs. He'd met Beigbeder ten or so times and had signed a treaty with him, all less than a year previously.

By January of 1941, Pétain was exhibiting severe short term memory loss and had become very suggestible, his decisions being made based on whoever had spoken last. He slowly and steadily declined, becoming more and more senile through 1943 and beyond.

His death sentence, later commuted, had been by a single vote majority.

"In retrospect, it is clear that the final responsibility for the policy of the Vichy government has rested on a man involved in a process of slow progressive cognitive decline, on his way to dementia." -- Frans G.I. Jennekens, from "The Cognitive Decline of Marshal Philippe Pétain."

http://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/430984

De mortuis nil nisi bonum.

[Bev]

Very interesting! Having watched a family member descend into dementia I can see how this could happen.

[J.]

Bev wrote: "Very interesting! Having watched a family member descend into dementia I can see how this could happen."

Sorry to hear you lost someone to this depressing condition. I wrote a couple of poems about my mother's last months, which weren't too bad. I later combined both poems into a one-act play (The 500 Goodbyes) performed in several venues around Los Angeles.

[Bev]

I wrote one poem about my Mom's experiences using mostly her own words.

[J.]

Bev wrote: "I wrote one poem about my Mom's experiences using mostly her own words."

Poetry is helpful when dealing with losses, either by reading it or writing it.

[Vivian]

Geevee wrote: "I'd second that."

Read the book, sad but couldn't stop reading it.

[Vivian]

Helen wrote: "Sounds like a great book, Aussie Rick, I'll have to read that one!

My mother's town was 6 km from Sobibor. Her family was first protected by a high placed Nazi, and when it became clear that he w..."

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "This sounds like a book that should be read by as many people as possible:

by David A. Hackett
Description:
In the closing weeks of World ..."

I just ordered this book it makes me sad just thinking about it

[Tony]

I've almost finished The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews . It's very moving, and as expected also very hard going. I'm not sure I've read anything as sad or graphic as these eyewitness accounts, which I won't share here, but here are a couple of passages which resonated and should give a flavour of what the book's about.

"While the mass graves of the thousands of Jews who were shot are untraceable, every German killed during the war has been reburied and identified by name. The cemeteries are on the scale of the Reich. Magnificent cemeteries for the Germans, including the SS, little graves for the French, white stones covered in brambles for the tens of thousands of anonymous Soviet soldiers, and absolutely nothing for the Jews."

"I am convinced that there is only one human race—a human race that shoots two-year-old children. For better or for worse I belong to that human race and this allows me to acknowledge that an ideology can deceive minds to the point of annihilating all ethical reflexes and all recognition of the human in the other."

Once I've finished, I think I'll take a break from holocaust books.

[zed]

Tony wrote: "Once I've finished, I think I'll take a break from holocaust books.
."

Yeah there reaches a point doesn't there.

[Tony]

4triplezed wrote: "Tony wrote: "Once I've finished, I think I'll take a break from holocaust books.
."

Yeah there reaches a point doesn't there."

Yep there does, and I think I've probably passed it! For a while anyway.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

I'm reading this at present and finding it to be superb with great detail that is easy to read and digest.

Final Solution: The Fate of the Jews 1933-49 by David Cesarani

My updates as I progress are here should anyone be interested: https://www.goodreads.com/user_status...

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Excellent updates Geevee, thanks for sharing with the group. I still have these two books to read on the subject so I am unsure if I can squeeze David Cesarani's book in yet for some time.

Nazi Germany and the Jews: The Years of Extermination, 1939-1945 by Saul Friedländer

KL: A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps by Nikolaus Wachsmann

[Jonny]

I've Cesarani's book stacked up for "sometime". But Wachsmann blew me away.

[J.]

Tony wrote: "I've almost finished The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews [bookcover:The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey t..."

"...Magnificent cemeteries for the Germans, including the SS, little graves for the French, white stones covered in brambles for the tens of thousands of anonymous Soviet soldiers, and absolutely nothing for the Jews."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocau...

[J.]

I've finished reading "Hitler Directs His War" (1950). ☆☆☆☆ My report is here:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Hitler Directs His War

Some background from In the Mouth of the Lion: ["MOTL"]

'Was Hitler insane? Not until well after 1942 [if at all]. The earliest evidence of insanity may be this: According to Albert Bormann, in May of 1945. Goering urgently wanted all the situation conference notes destroyed. “They must be destroyed immediately,” he said, “or the German people will discover that for the last two years [i.e, after ~May, 1943] they have been led by a madman!” [From Christa Schroeder's memoir as referenced in the MOTL Bibliography.]'

The situation conference notes were, indeed, destroyed. Hitler Directs His War is based on the remnants retrieved near Berchtesgaden by George Allen, with the assistance of Hitler's stenographers. About 800 pages were recovered out of 200,000 destroyed. A small fraction of those 800 pages makes up Hitler Directs His War. I see no evidence that Hitler was insane in that sample. Evil, definitely. Believed the end justifies the means, certainly.

Either Goering was wrong, or using a different definition of "insane," or the signs of insanity were in the ~199,200 lost pages, or Goering was deliberately trying to shift blame away from himself and onto Hitler, or I simply haven't delved into the sample sufficiently. I intend to make another pass at Felix Gilbert's translation to check.

[Pamela]

Tony wrote: "I've almost finished The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews [bookcover:The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey t..."


My shelf is overflowing but that excerpt ... have to order the book today. Thanks, Tony

[Pamela]

Jonny wrote: "I've Cesarani's book stacked up for "sometime". But Wachsmann blew me away."

I have this book on my shelf. Now going to move it to my bedstand. Thank you for pointing it out.

[Pamela]

J. wrote: "I've finished reading "Hitler Directs His War" (1950). ☆☆☆☆ My report is here:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Hitler Directs His War

J. Thank you so much for posting this. I have been a student of the Holocaust for years and years and (as a Jewish girl, I guess) so reluctant to read anything about Hitler. He scared me so much as a child. But now as an adult, I find myself fascinated by the Third Reich's inner workings and very curious about Hitler and his inner life. Good book recommendations along these lines are appreciated.

Some ..."

[Pamela]

J. wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I stumbled across this article today. Rather damning. Perhaps Petain should have stood alongside Pierre Laval in October of '45?

Perhaps. But there is room for some doubt as to the..."

J. wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I stumbled across this article today. Rather damning. Perhaps Petain should have stood alongside Pierre Laval in October of '45?

Perhaps. But there is room for some doubt as to the..."

J. wrote: "I found an interesting new preface to Ron Rosenbaum's book, Explaining Hitler. It's very long, but has a lot of information.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/h......"


Very interesting discussion. Would there be a possibility of exhuming the corpse and examining the brain for signs of dementia ?

[Tony]

Pamela wrote: "My shelf is overflowing but that excerpt ... have to order the book today. Thanks, Tony"

Now finished, reviewed, and highly recommended Pamela. It's a slim volume so won't take up too much shelf space!

[Colin]

J. wrote: "I've finished reading "Hitler Directs His War" (1950). ☆☆☆☆ My report is here:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Hitler Directs His War

Having interviewed over 400 Germans, 100 who knew or met Hitler, and the last 7 living from the bunker, including secretaries and bodyguards, I can assure you that Goering was trying to remove himself from blame. Hitler's physical condition was effected by his Parkinson's Disease, and the years of methamphetamine injections Theodor Morrell gave him. I never interviewed Schroeder, but I did know Traudl Junge very well, just to name one.
Some ..."

[J.]

Pamela wrote: "J. wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I stumbled across this article today. Rather damning. Perhaps Petain should have stood alongside Pierre Laval in October of '45?

Perhaps. But there is room for some doubt..."

Very interesting discussion. Would there be a possibility of exhuming the corpse and examining the brain for signs of dementia ?

Pointless. Petain lived for six years after the end of WWII. By that time, his brain had the approximate acuity of a small can of Spackle™. The question of his responsibility hinges on how senile he was when he signed certain documents regarding Jewish transportation. There is no place we can retroactively stick a measuring instrument to determine that.

Based on my observations, senility progresses quickly at times, when changes can be seen on close to a weekly basis. It also varies from hour to hour depending on how tired the patient is, diet, exercise, medications, stress, caffeine intake, and probably many other factors. Petain apparently was easily influenced by those around him.

If you're really, really interested, here's another take on this question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom...

I watched the TV film some time around 1962/63. Ustinov was one of my long term favorite actors. I still remember one unforgettable line: "I want my PLUMS!" as the (unnamed) Marshal is photographed for propaganda purposes just as he pounds on the table. I'm not sure how you'd find a copy of the film, though the play script may be obtainable from the usual suspects.

[Pamela]

yes you're right about the pointlessness of exhumation. Petain's words and actions during Vichy do show evidence of cognitive decline; Still, he repeatedly showed a willingness to repress perceived enemies.

[J.]

Colin wrote: "...I can assure you that Goering was trying to remove himself from blame. Hitler's physical condition was effected by his Parkinson's Disease, and the years of methamphetamine injections Theodor Morrell gave him. I never interviewed Schroeder, but I did know Traudl Junge very well, just to name one."

Morell gave Hitler almost 100 different substances, at various times until he was fired, including meth, Eukodal (oxycodone), cocaine and pulverized bull testicles. From July 18, 1943, forward, Morell had Hitler on Eukodal. Some of Hitler's military aides also received Eukodal, as did Morell himself. After July 20, 1944, Dr. Erwin Giesing gave Hitler cocaine, to which he became addicted until mid-October of '44. Morell started AH on meth about October 1st of '44. He was addicted to it until February 24th of '45, after which Morell was unable to get any more. (Ohler)

Morell on Pervitin (meth): “This is not a power food. It isn’t oats for the horse; it’s the whip!”

Schroeder, perhaps most of all Hitler's personal staff, had his number: “He was a prisoner to the delusion that an iron will could succeed everywhere.”

Dr, Karl Brandt said of Schroeder: ‘Clever, critical and intelligent, she had a turnover of work which no other secretary matched, often spending several days and nights almost without a break taking dictation. She would always express her opinion openly...and in time became sharply critical of Hitler himself. Her boldness undoubtedly put her life in grave danger.’

Goering was present at many of the situation conferences, so he knew much of what transpired. If he genuinely thought that Hitler was insane, he apparently never mentioned it to anyone else until May of '45. But by destroying the transcripts, he could remove any evidence therein of his own complicity and also later say anything he wanted to about Hitler, thus doubly making himself look better, without much fear of being revealed as a liar. Too good an opportunity to let pass, but it didn't really help him.

[Al]

This may be a little contentious, but I often wonder at this need to see the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse Tung etc as 'insane.
As people, is this what we need to rationalise their actions to distance them as far as possible from ourselves, and a recognition of the cruelty that humans appear to be inherently capable?
Despite the adolation, everything that I have read on Hitler, which isn't a great deal because I don't find him particularly interesting, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly outstanding about the man.
Secondly, and undoubtedly the most inflammatory, is Hitler really the one at whose feet we can lay the fate of all the persecuted people during this period? Does it not stand to reason to lay this at the feet of the likes of Himmler, Heydrich and little supplicants like Hoess?
Just some random thoughts after reading those above.

[Colin]

Karl Wolff said it best, "no one worked in a vacuum, as all knew their duties, whether written or spoken, and we all knew our limitations which were few."

[J.]

Al wrote: "This may be a little contentious, but I often wonder at this need to see the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse Tung etc as 'insane.
... is Hitler really the one at whose feet we can lay the fate of all the persecuted people during this period? Does it not stand to reason to lay this at the feet of the likes of Himmler, Heydrich and little supplicants like Hoess?

In my opinion, we need to understand how Hitler came to be and what his mind was like, and how to prevent another. “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” --George Santayana

I base my responses here on 6 years of research for In the Mouth of the Lion. Hitler was perfectly sane, as of June, 1942, though affected by a half dozen or more complexes and personality disorders, The difference between him and most of us was that he believed the end justifies the means. He also believed that he was a sort of messiah, destined to restore Germany to greatness.

(Every villain is the hero of his own story.) The sad truth is that there are large numbers of people today who have the same self-sanctified belief system, who think that their beliefs make them holier than the rest of us and that because we disagree with them, we are evil.

My take on Himmler is that he was, if anything, worse than Hitler. Himmler's own father once described him as "a born criminal." Heydrich was also a hideous person, and died hideously, as did Himmler. The entire Party, top to bottom, was populated by thugs. Occasionally, you find someone with a shred of humanity, but that's the exception.

[zed]

J. wrote: "Himmler's own father once described him as "a born criminal."


I am not trying to defend Himmler but I have never been able to find a source that backs that "born criminal" comment other than a couple of internet sites that have no footnotes etc.

[Sweetwilliam]

In my opinion, we need to understand how Hitler came to be and what his mind was like, and how to prevent another. “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” --George Santayana

This is a great comment. Read Shirer's the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and see how a few well intended do-gooders pursued a policy of appeasement at the cost of 50 MM dead. In my mind the men of Munich were complicit. Had Chamberlain had a back bone, the Wehrmacht high command planned to pull a coup to avoid a war that would ultimately fail for Germany. But how could they? The appeasers had rewarded Hitler's aggression once again. Hitler got another territory into the Reich without having to fire a shot. He would always divide and conquer. Every country that went to war with Hitler had a treaty with him. This needs to be studied over and over again.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions!!!! Do not reward an aggressor!!!! We need to read about men like Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Che etc....and any other Jungle or Desert Stalin so we can identify them as such. We need to be vigilant and remind others that are sitting home watching The Housewives and Game of Thrones about how that war was started and how the next conflict can start and how the democracies were so unprepared to fight.

Sorry for the rant but this is the most important reason for reading about men like Hitler.

[J.]

4triplezed wrote: "J. wrote: "Himmler's own father once described him as "a born criminal."

I am not trying to defend Himmler but I have never been able to find a source that backs that "born criminal" comment othe..."

http://taggedwiki.zubiaga.org/new_con...

Tracking the statement back to its origins is not as easy as an Internet search. We need to go back to primary documents, which would consist of memoirs and biographies written in German, but not necessarily translated into English yet. I haven't the least doubt that it's true, based on what we know of his behavior.

[Dj]

J. wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "J. wrote: "Himmler's own father once described him as "a born criminal."

I am not trying to defend Himmler but I have never been able to find a source that backs that "born crim..."

Interesting. I find the comment somewhat unlikely since Himmler seems to be somewhat less intimidating as a child than others. Also, it isn't really the type of thing that Father's are likely to say of their own children even if they think they might be bad apples. High School classmates sure, Parents, not so much.