THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

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CAMPAIGNS & BATTLES > Books on the Eastern Front of WW2

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message 701: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Another great post MR9, very informative. Its amazing when you read some accounts from the German side on their losses of men and vehicles. The number of operational tanks in some Panzer Divisions you could count on both hands and not use all your fingers.


message 702: by Manray9 (new)

Manray9 | 4789 comments From War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942 by Robert Kershaw.

Much has been written on the impact of winter weather on Barbarossa. One German soldier, Harald Henry, an infantryman in the 9th Army, wrote of his own experiences:

My things were gradually saturated as the water soaked through by greatcoat to my body, which was frozen stiff. Everything was dripping and the weather was freezing. My stomach and bowels were in a state and cold temperatures dropped off the scale -- and the lice! The frost penetrated the weeping sores on my fingers.

Standing hour after hour in the open, wet and frozen with hands wrapped (in bandages), lashed all the time by the unbelievable weather. Our boot soles froze sticking to the ground. We were wet through and simply had to stand, stand, stand, wait -- march a bit -- and stand again.


Finally, they reached a village where they were permitted to fall out for rest.

All of us were ill and absolutely worn out to some degree or other... Every fibre in my body was broken.


The weather was so bad further movement was called off. Thirty men were billeted in a one-room house -- all sprawled across the floor. Henry noted:

Liquid excrement ran through the middle of the hut between our ponchos and packs. We all had diarrhoea and stomach cramps.


Among the many shortfalls in resupply was underwear. The German army only issued long underwear. In the heat of June, July, and August, many soldiers cut off the legs of their underpants. They regretted doing so in November and December -- if they were still alive.


message 703: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Sounds like you are enjoying the book MR9. I will have to dig out my copy. I have also been tempted to read this book:

The First Day on the Eastern Front Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther

Which was published a few years after this mammoth book on the subject by the same author:

Barbarossa Unleashed The German Blitzkrieg Through Central Russia to the Gates of Moscow - June-December 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther Barbarossa Unleashed: The German Blitzkrieg Through Central Russia to the Gates of Moscow - June-December 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther


message 704: by Manray9 (last edited Mar 24, 2020 05:55PM) (new)

Manray9 | 4789 comments From Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942.

A few additional tidbits --

-- On 28 November 1941, as the Germans fought at the gates of Moscow, they thwarted a local counterattack by Soviet forces at Strelino. The Germans knocked out four British Matilda tanks which contained engine plates showing manufacture in September 1941. The tanks represented some of the first evidence of Allied support for the Soviet war effort.

-- The Soviet counter-offensive before Moscow was composed of strike elements containing the First Shock Army and the 20th and 10th Armies. These armies were transferred by Stalin from STAVKA to Zhukov on 29 November and had been assembled for only two or three weeks. They were a mixture of well-trained, field-hardened Siberian units, burned-out veteran formations, and barely-trained militia and reservists. Many lacked equipment and ammo was short. Officers and NCOs were inexperienced. While most were as yet unblooded, they were properly-clad and well-shod for the weather conditions.

-- The German 6th Panzer Division was pulled back at the threshold of Moscow on orders from Model:

It was the third disappointment the 6th Panzer Division had experienced short of victory. They were halted at Dunkirk in 1940 and again before Leningrad in September 1941. Moscow was also to be denied them.


-- The Germans learned of the value of valenki -- traditional Russian felt boots. Valenki are not waterproof, but in conditions where everything is frozen, that isn't critical. In muddy or slushy environments, they're worn under rubber overshoes. They're warm and comfortable to wear. In Russian weather they'll stand up better than leather boots. The Germans robbed Russian dead of their valenki and even stole those worn by civilians.


message 705: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Another very interesting post MR9. Luckily I found my copy of Kershaw's book and moved it closer to the top of my 'to-read' pile. Thanks for your continued informative posts from the book, very enjoyable reading.


message 706: by Dj (new)

Dj | 2295 comments Manray9 wrote: "From Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942.

Much has been written on the initial collapse of Soviet forces in the surprise attack of 22 June 1941, bu..."


From what I have read about the Eastern Front the Soviet Solider fought well but reacted poorly. So other than a few points that had to be dealt with the Germans just bypassed large groups. Well the Armor did, the Infantry and to do clean up.


message 707: by Alex (new)

Alex Gosman | 203 comments I think this comment by Alan Clark in "Barbarossa" is quite telling

“But even before dusk on the 22nd (day of invasion) certain differences from previous campaigns were apparent. Like some prehistoric monster caught in a net, the Red Army struggled desperately and, as reflexes gradually activated the remoter parts of its body, with mounting effect”.


message 708: by Arthur (new)

Arthur (warrior1775) | 11 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Another classic book covering one battle on the Eastern Front is of course; "Enemy at the Gates". I think this may have even been the book that got me interested in the Russian Front along with "Th..."

Forgotten Soldier is excellent.


message 709: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Its a great book indeed Arthur. Another favourite of mine covering the Eastern Front is this book:

In Deadly Combat A German Soldier's Memoir of the Eastern Front by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann In Deadly Combat: A German Soldier's Memoir of the Eastern Front by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann


message 710: by Charles (new)

Charles | 110 comments Finally got around to reviewing Hitler's Spanish Legion: The Blue Division in Russia in WWII, covering Franco's deployment of troops to the Eastern Front around Novgorod and Leningrad.

Check out my review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


message 711: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Great review Charles, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the book with the rest of the group.


message 712: by Lawrence (new)

Lawrence (incomitatus42) | 2 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "


Books covering the Eastern Front of WW2 are usually one of my favourite areas of reading. One book that I really enjoyed was; "In Deadly Combat" by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann.

[bookcover:In Dead..."


I've read hundreds of books covering this subject and the best, by far is:

Barbarossa Unleashed: The German Blitzkrieg through Central Russia to the Gates of Moscow • June-December 1941
by Craig W.H. Luther

Absolutely stunning book.

Larry


message 713: by Lawrence (new)

Lawrence (incomitatus42) | 2 comments Manray9 wrote: "From War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942 by Robert Kershaw.

Much has been written on the impact of winter weather on Barbarossa. One German soldier, Harald Henry, a..."


Here'a a quote by a German padre during the early days of Barbarossa:

“Today I buried some more of my former parishioners who have died in this frightful land. Three more letters to write to add to the total of those which I have written already in this war. The deleted names of the fallen are now more numerous in my pocket diary than the names of the living. My parish is bleeding to death on the plains of this country. We shall all die out here.”


message 714: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (last edited Mar 27, 2021 04:22PM) (new)


message 715: by Jonny (new)

Jonny | 2116 comments There are a few decent ideas for some of this year's theme reads there Rick


message 716: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments There are indeed Jonny! :)


message 717: by Creighton (new)

Creighton | 20 comments Hey guys, I am reading David Glantz right now, his book "When Titans Clashed" I am looking for a book that talks about Fall Blau In-depth, not just the Stalingrad campaign but the invasion of the Caucasus

Also, maybe a book on operation Bagration?


message 719: by Creighton (new)

Creighton | 20 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Funny enough there aren't all that many books published in English in regards to Operation Bagration but here are a few:

[bookcover:Stalin's Revenge: Operation Bagration and the Annihilation of Ar..."


Do you got any recommendations for the siege of Sevastopol?


message 720: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments You could try these two. I've only got a copy of the second book but I have not read it yet:

The Defence of Sevastopol 1941-1942 The Soviet Perspective by Clayton Donnell The Defence of Sevastopol 1941-1942: The Soviet Perspective by Clayton Donnell

Where the Iron Crosses Grow The Crimea 1941–44 by Robert Forczyk Where the Iron Crosses Grow: The Crimea 1941–44 by Robert Forczyk


message 721: by Dj (new)

Dj | 2295 comments Creighton wrote: "Hey guys, I am reading David Glantz right now, his book "When Titans Clashed" I am looking for a book that talks about Fall Blau In-depth, not just the Stalingrad campaign but the invasion of the C..."

Glantz has a series of books on Stalingrad. Fair Warning, they will not be as easy a read as When Titans Clashed.

Here is a link that might help with the Caucasus aspect. Hope these help
https://www.amazon.com/Caucasus-1942-...


message 722: by Dj (new)

Dj | 2295 comments Travelin wrote: "There are many entirely believable stories about Stalin's brutality, which is why it seems so absolutely unbelievable that despite all the mass starvation and destruction, he not only let Friedrich..."

Politics. Letting him surrender played well, the first German Field Marshal to surrender. Looks good in the press and can be used to rub the Western Allies nose in it. Letting him live was a pretty much no-brainer, he could be trotted out at the end of the war and shown off and used to support the Russian position on War Crimes. Letting him go, see how merciful the Soviet Union is. Stalin was always about the Realpolitick


message 723: by Colin (new)

Colin Heaton (colin1962) | 2011 comments Paulus was used as a propaganda tool issuing radio broadcasts against Hitler, whom he felt betrayed his 6th Army.


message 724: by Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces (last edited Jul 05, 2021 02:54PM) (new)

Mike | 3621 comments Finally finished my book for this theme, kinda fell behind the rest of the crew. Pretty decent account of a major battle that isn't well covered in the overall battles for Leningrad and Moscow at the end of 1941. The Soviets threw everything at the German spearheads, even when there was little chance of stopping the advance:

(view spoiler)

The Defense of Moscow 1941 The Northern Flank by Jack Radey The Defense of Moscow 1941: The Northern Flank by Jack Radey


message 725: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Great story Mike, glad that they managed to recover Lukin's body and to bury him with honours.


message 726: by Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces (new)

Mike | 3621 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Great story Mike, glad that they managed to recover Lukin's body and to bury him with honours."

Lukin's tank continued to do "battle" with the Germans. A desperately needed resupply convoy spotted the abandoned tank at the river bridge and elected to go into laager rather than approach a T-34. The column was delayed overnight at a critical point in the battle until help was obtained in "defeating" the tank.


message 727: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Even past death he did his duty!


message 728: by Creighton (new)

Creighton | 20 comments Hey guys, Do you know of any memoirs or books written by Soviet generals? Also, do you know of any books that discuss Stalin during the war, and focus mainly on him, his decision making, military conferences, etc? I have a book on Hitler's military conferences that detail Hitler's meetings with his generals, and I want to find a book that details Stalins meetings with his generals.


message 730: by Gary (new)

Gary (folionut) | 213 comments Creighton wrote: "Hey guys, Do you know of any memoirs or books written by Soviet generals? Also, do you know of any books that discuss Stalin during the war, and focus mainly on him, his decision making, military c..."

Have you seen this one, Creighton?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

I haven't read it but it looks good – though it will be very pro-Stalin, I imagine.


message 731: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)


message 732: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Another book written by a WW2 Russian general is this book:

Battle for the Caucasus by Andrei Grechko Battle for the Caucasus by Andrei Grechko


message 733: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (last edited Oct 23, 2021 05:00PM) (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments The author of "Boy Soldiers" mentions how her father was sent as a replacement for the German forces soon to be caught up in the Soviet Moravian-Ostrava offensive that took place from March 10 to May 6, 1945:

https://en.topwar.ru/70653-moravsko-o...

Boy Soldiers - A personal Story of Nazi elite Schooling and its Legacy of Trauma by Helene Munson Boy Soldiers - A personal Story of Nazi elite Schooling and its Legacy of Trauma by Helene Munson


message 734: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Reading "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" the author mentioned Romania's rush to build a defensive line with the coming of the Second World War.

The Carol Fortified Line of WW2:
https://lilieci.ro/en/colony-blog/car...


Romania's Holy War Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward


message 735: by Manray9 (new)

Manray9 | 4789 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Reading "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" the author mentioned Romania's rush to build a defensive line with the coming of the Second World War.

The Carol Fortified Li..."


It didn't do them much good. They had to give it up.


message 736: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (last edited Nov 14, 2021 04:00PM) (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - In the summer of 1940 Romania was forced to cede territory in parts of Greater Romania to Russia - Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina.

During the withdrawal from these areas Romania forces were responsible for numerous atrocities carried out against the Jewish population whom they scapegoated for the loss of territory to their traditional enemy. They even murdered fellow soldiers whose only crime was their Jewish faith:

"Jewish soldiers on trains were particularly vulnerable. If lucky, they were disarmed, beaten, and turned over to the authorities; but if unlucky, they were often thrown from moving trains, shot, and even bayoneted - the violence often urged on by civilians. 'We have saved them from reserve duty,' some joked after shooting two Jewish soldiers thrown from a train. For days, injured, dying and dead Jews were discovered along railways in southern Bukovina, Moldavia, and even Transylvania."

The Galati Massacre:
https://www.rri.ro/en_gb/the_galati_m...

Dorohoi pogrom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorohoi...


message 737: by Manray9 (new)

Manray9 | 4789 comments 'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - In the summer of 1940 Romania was forced to cede territory in parts of Greater Romania to Russia - Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina. ..."

I can't imagine hating someone so much who hasn't done anything to you.


message 738: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments Totally agree MR9, plus they were serving in uniform alongside of you in defence of their country!


message 739: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments That seems to bear some truth Travelin!


message 740: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - Some interesting information in regards to when Romania had to cede territory in 1940:

"The loss of territories to the USSR, Hungary, and Bulgaria significantly reduced the Romanian Army's strength. The withdrawal from northern Transylvania was completed on 13 September. The turnover of southern Dobruja began on 21 September and ended ten days later without incident. During the following month, most of the Romanian and Bulgarian populations in Dobruja were exchanged, although negotiations over the remaining Romanians and Bulgarians dragged on for over a year. The Romanian Army lost nearly 378,000 soldiers who remained behind in northern Bukovina and Bessarabia, northern Transylvania , and southern Dobruja. As one historian wrote, 'A major defeat had been inflicted on the Romanian Army without it being able to fire a shot'."

Romania's Holy War Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward


message 741: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - Romania has joined the Axis forces in the invasion of Russia. On 23 June, First Lieutenant Hoira Agarici downed three Soviet bombers over Constanta:

https://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/p014.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horia_A...


message 742: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - Romanian army units played a significant role during the Battle for Odessa:

https://www.historynet.com/forgotten-...

https://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/?ar...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...


message 743: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - The author provided numerous accounts of Romanian soldiers carrying out massacres after the fall of Odessa:

"On 24 October, soldiers marched Jews from Odessa's jail two kilometers down the road towards Dalnik, shooting any who fell behind. After reaching antitank ditches, which were used as improvised mass graves, they machine-gunned groups of forty to fifty Jews at a time. Other soldiers shoved thousands of Jews into four warehouses near the jail, two with men and two with women and children, and set them ablaze. They shot or threw grenades at anyone who tried to escape."

"The Odessa massacre's total number of victims has been the subject of wild speculation. At the time, Einsatzgruppe D reported ten thousand dead. Postwar investigations claimed nineteen to twenty-three thousand victims, and some today suggest forty thousand. Trial records indicate hundreds hanged, five thousand shot near the port, hundreds machine-gunned at the antitank ditches on the road to Dalnik, five thousand burned in the warehouses, and hundreds more killed elsewhere."

The Odessa Massacre:
https://www.dw.com/en/the-odessa-mass...

https://www.dw.com/en/the-sole-jewish...


message 744: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - The author mentioned how Russian soldiers, partisans and Jews hiding from the Axis forces used the catacombs under Odessa during WW2:

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/1...

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/o...


message 745: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - The Soviet forces are closing in on the borders of Romania with a Soviet attacks in May in Moldavia in an attempt to break through the Fourth Army:

"Axis troops halted the enemy after six days; however, Mircea Ionescu-Quintus remembered soldiers nicknamed it the battle of 'shame' - a play on the name of the village of Ruginoasa near Targu Frumos where the fiercest fighting took place - because they needed to be rescued by their allies."

The Battle of Targul Frumos:
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/201...


message 746: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - It seems that the Romanians are close to collapse in some areas:

German commanders were not impressed by Romanian soldiers, especially officers, at this time. One German liaison officer recalled, "These officers seemed none to anxious to get near the fighting. When I mentioned to the Rumanian officers that their staffs were much too far removed from the front, they responded that there was 'sufficient telephone wire' available."

The Second Jassy-Kishinev Offensive:
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war...


message 747: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments For anyone interested in reading further on the Romanian Army during WW2 I found this link to the author's 600 page dissertation on the subject. From the author of "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust".


HOLY WAR: THE ROMANIAN ARMY, MOTIVATION, AND THE HOLOCAUST, 1941-1944 A Dissertation by GRANT THOMAS HARWARD:

https://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bit...


message 748: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - From the Epilogue of the book:

"Romania's butcher's bill on the eastern front was high. The Romanian Army suffered 71,585 dead, 254,622 wounded or sick, and 309,533 missing (including over 120,000 captured by the Soviets after the royal coup but before the signing of the armistice) during the holy war between 22 June 1941 and 23 August 1944. The Red Army recorded taking 187,367 Romanian prisoners of war, and 132,000 were repatriated by 1956 - for a mortality rate of 29 percent during captivity. The remaining 120,000 missing were mostly unidentified dead. The Antonescu regime was responsible for the deaths of 300,000 Romanian and Soviet Jews in Bukovina, Bessarabia, and Transnistria. (The Horthy regime sent another 132,000 Romanian Jews from northern Transylvania to their deaths at Auschwitz.) Romanian soldiers also helped round up and murder tens of thousands of Soviet Jews east of the Bug, particularly in Crimea. Only 50,000 of 125,000 Romanian Jews deported to Transnistria in 1941 returned in 1944. The number of Soviet Jews who survived in Transnistria was probably comparable. Of 25,000 Gypsies deported by the Antonescu regime in 1942, historians estimate half died by 1944 (AR note - many Gypsy men were fighting in the Romanian Army while their families were being deported!) The Romanian Army lost another 21,035 killed, 90,344 wounded or sick, and 58,443 missing during the antifascist crusade between 24 August 1944 and 9 May 1945. By the end of the Second World War, only 300,000 Jews, or less than half the prewar Jewish population of Greater Romania, had survived."

Romania's Holy War Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust by Grant T. Harward


message 749: by 'Aussie Rick', Moderator (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) | 20043 comments "Faulty Towers" - I wouldn't mention the war!


message 750: by carl (new)

carl  theaker | 1560 comments Here's another on the subject. A pricey purchase, I managed to find a University library to borrow it from, but a classic.

Third Axis, Fourth Ally Romanian Armed Forces in the European War, 1941-1945 by Mark Axworthy
Third Axis, Fourth Ally: Romanian Armed Forces in the European War, 1941-1945

'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Romania's Holy War: Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust" - From the Epilogue of the book:

"Romania's butcher's bill on the eastern front was high. The Romanian Army suffered 71,585 dead, 254,..."



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