The Return of the King
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Why wasn't Mt. Doom more guarded?
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Badgerlord
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Apr 12, 2012 06:07PM
Really, if there is a single place that could be involved in your downthrow, would not you have a couple of Balrogs there or something? Or even just place a massive boulder or something over the entrance?
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Sauron never thought that the Free Peoples would attempt to destroy the ring. The idea never once crossed his eye, so I guess that's why he never thought to guard Mount Doom. Also, remember, there were thousands of orc camps located in Gorgoroth. Frodo and Sam could never have made it there unless the Armies of Gondor and Rohan called out Sauron by the Black Gates.As far as your Balrog question, I don't think there were any left by the third age, besides Durin's Bane in Moria, and Gandalf killed that fucker. Although I have to say, as a D&D player, a couple of Balors guarding something is a pretty sweet idea.
I agree with Jesse (lol above me). Look at the characteristics of Sauron. He was a intelligent, powerful demi-god figure who I'm sure thought he was the greatest thing since bacon. Look at the way he handled the Last Battle, he walked out there with himself and ring. Completely confident he could turn the battle around himself, until Isildur cut off his finger.It wouldn't surprise me that he would look at his dominion every day and drink deeply from his own power. He would be completely blind by pride and arrogance.
It probably never crossed his mind that someone would have the cajones to cross a desolate wasteland, filled with thousands of bloodlust driven orcs.
Badgerlord wrote: "Really, if there is a single place that could be involved in your downthrow, would not you have a couple of Balrogs there or something? Or even just place a massive boulder or something over the en..."Sauron doesn't just have Balrogs waiting on his every beck and call. Balrogs are incarnations of the Maia, same as wizards. They are individual, free entities, not servants. On top of that, I'm pretty sure most of them were wiped out after Morgoth (the first dark lord) was overthrown. I'm not positive though, as it's been awhile since I read The Silmarillion.
Jesse puts it very well, Gandalf himself says that the greatest advantage the free people had was that Sauron never considered the possibility of them destroying the ring. Plus the plan to send it with a Hobbit into Mordor was so insane that nobody else except Gandalf even considered it. And even Gandalf had a hard time persuading the Council of Elrond to go with that plan. Sauron himself believed Aragorn to be the ringbarer and focused his full attention on him, which helped even more.
Also, according to the Silmarillion, in the last battle that ended the war against Morgoth a.k.a Melkor, all the Balrogs except one were killed, so the one in Moria was the last one left.
Also, according to the Silmarillion, in the last battle that ended the war against Morgoth a.k.a Melkor, all the Balrogs except one were killed, so the one in Moria was the last one left.
On the note of the Balrogs, also: they are basically maias (like Wizards, as Nathaniel said), and interestingly, so is Sauron. So, basically, he wouldn't have any power to command beings that are on the same level as he is. He couldn't even command Shelob, really, she was just there because she wanted to be there and he let her because it suited him.Also, the fact Mt. Doom is in the middle of Mordor is pretty good security to me. We're talking about a desolate land with nothing to eat, nothing to drink, and orcs and worse creatures tramping about at all times under the shadow. Why should he guard the mountain itself when there was absolutely no way, as far as he knew, that someone could have slipped through the gates of Mordor? A human or an elf probably couldn't have done it, either, and Sauron was only vaguely aware of what hobbits even are, so no, he really couldn't have expected it.
it wasn't more gaurded because aragorn had shown himself to sauron through the palantir, and made him believe that ge had the ring so that sauron sent all of the orcs that were gaurding mount doom, to fight aragorn and his army. plus as "Chamara" wrote,"all the balrogs except one were killed, so the one in moria was the last one left." and gandalf killed it!
If not a Balrog, then why not the Lord of the Nine, the Witch-King of Angmar, or whatever you call him?Anyway, going by the various answers above, which are all good, I think arrogance is the answer. Mt. Doom certainly isn't easy to get to, and Sauron was surely quite full of himself and his power. Oh yeah, and he thought Aragorn had it.
I think all your comments above are valid in their own right. I particularly enjoy the idea of a boulder blocking the doorway when the hobbits, exhausted, get there.One aspect of LOTR that is so very difficult to keep in mind is that it, and the creatures inhabiting that universe, follow their own particular rules. Sauron is, as stated, a demigod. He doesn't reason like a modern human. He has not seen a thousand movies or read a thousand 20th and 21st century books to warn him of all the pitfalls a standard Dark Lord must contend with.
No one sneaks into Mordor.
Ultimately it all came down to inconceivability. The One Ring corrupted all who wieldedit, carried it, touched it, or even saw it. Sauron knew that the Ring would come back to him in time as anyone who tried to use it would become his puppet in time as it was an extension of himself. That was one of the reasons Frodo was told never to use it as it turned him into a beacon to the Dark Lord and his creatures and it would have corrupted him until he would have walked right up and placed it back upon Sauron's finger himself. Frodo was on the very brink and falling over as he stood at the Cracks of Doom and if it hadn't been for Gollum attacking him right then he would have taken that trip over to Barad-Dur. But to return to my original point, not only was the ring itself a corrupting influence on the holder, the very idea of someone attempting to destroy it was inconceivably foreign to Sauron. He was incapable of conceiving anyone who would not want to possess the Ring and use its power to take over the world, who would turn their back on power.
Jesse wrote: "Sauron never thought that the Free Peoples would attempt to destroy the ring. The idea never once crossed his eye, so I guess that's why he never thought to guard Mount Doom. Also, remember, there ..."were the balrogs even sauron's?
One does not simply walk to Mount Doom.It's weird there's no guard at all over there but I guess the logic was that if need be he could send a nearby unit since the area around it was full of orcs. In my military service some nights I used to be a guard at a camp they kept some missiles. You had to pass a main gate,then a second gate,then pass in front of me to get to the missiles(sounds well guarded,huh?) OR sneak by cutting the wires and get to the building.There was NO guard at the building!I was the nearest about...200 meters away. It happens. :P
Matthew wrote: "If not a Balrog, then why not the Lord of the Nine, the Witch-King of Angmar, or whatever you call him?Anyway, going by the various answers above, which are all good, I think arrogance is the ans..."
The Witch-King couldn't have because Eowen killed him before Aragorn lead everyone to The Black Gate.
Furthermore, Sauron wasn't expecting little 3'6 people to sneak in (with cloaks that can make them blend in with the landscape!). What's also funny is that the "on Hobbits' section of LOTR says that hobbits can vanish and hide very quickly and avoid being seen(but not because of magic, according to Tolkien, but by natural ability). I personally think this could be considered magic myself, but that's just me. Magic is supposed to be an everyday thing anyway; but fantasy novels make it not so.
Also Sauron needed the Witch King to control the Nazgul. I think a lot of his power was tied up with in the Nine.
Forgive me if I seem a little rusty, I haven't read the Ring trilogy in over 20 years.I thought Mount Doom was very well guarded. First, there was the Black Gate, the only 'known' pathway into Mordor. Shelob had the secret back-way covered. Once inside Mordor, the terrain of bogs and spires of jagged rocks also kept people from crossing the wastelands. If it wasn't for the Lamas Bread given to the hobbits by the Wood Elves, they'd have never made it to Mount Doom to destroy the ring.
Similar to Boromir, all men were cursed to bend to the will of the ring. Man could only dream of destroying it, as well as the elves and dwarves. They too were part of the original curse within the ring. Only the hobbits were free from the original curse. Three rings went to the dwarven kings, seven to the elves, and nine to the kings of men, but Sauron's one ring was crafted to bind them all, one ring to rule all the races of Middle Earth except for the Hobbits. There was no rings for the 'hobbit kings,' they were never bound to the one ring. Do hobbits even have a king? I don't think so.
Remember, the ring itself was a living part of the Dark Lord. It did not want to die and in the end it did possess Frodo. If not for Gollum, the ring would have eventually returned to Sauron.
That's what I said more or less. Mount doom was in a fortified land and it was surrounded by legions of orcs. You don't actually have a guard IN the bank's vault or IN the President's/PM's bedroom,do you? Once the robber/spy/assasin gets there,it's game over...he's not supposed to reach there in the first place.That's why you have all those guards and alarms and locked doors around the place you want to keep safe.
Sauron could have a small garrison of orcs just outside the cave but even then the hobbits could sneak somehow.It'd only add an extra chapter.Also Sauron could've just sealed the entrance. But then the hobbits would find some crack to get in,or dig or something like that.Again,just another-boring-chapter.
Jake wrote: "Forgive me if I seem a little rusty, I haven't read the Ring trilogy in over 20 years.I thought Mount Doom was very well guarded. First, there was the Black Gate, the only 'known' pathway into Mo..."
Well spoken, indeed, sir!
Why wasn't Mt Doom more well guarded? Well why wasn't Pearl Harbor more well guarded?
Pearl Harbor was very well guarded. Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto devised a plan outside the military thinking of the day. Just like Gandalf did by sending two hobbits into Mordor.
John wrote: "Pearl Harbor was very well guarded. Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto devised a plan outside the military thinking of the day. Just like Gandalf did by sending two hobbits into Mordor."Admiral Isoroku used Hobbits?
Neil wrote: "John wrote: "Pearl Harbor was very well guarded. Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto devised a plan outside the military thinking of the day. Just like Gandalf did by sending two hobbits into Mordor."Admiral Isoroku used Hobbits?"
OK, this made me laugh
BANZAI HOBBITS!!!
Because Sauron's greatest failing was his arrogance.
As Chamara stated above there was some exposition via Gandalf about how a humble hobbit choosing the task of taking the ring into Mordor and to Mount Doom would never occur to Sauron.And I think this is also one of the signal themes of the trilogy, not just good conquering evil but the meek (stout of heart) over the mighty as how a little moth enables Gandalf's escape from Saruman's clutches, or the eagles fighting the fell beasts of the wraiths or Frodo traversing the treacherous lands of Mordor to destroy the ring.
Sauron assembled armies of the most fearsome creatures but in the end they were defeated by the righteous actions of those who stood against him.
Sauron never considered the destruction of the ring because he couldn't fathom anyone destroying such a powerful artifact, especially in a time of war. He had protections set up so that it couldn't be used against him, but the power of the wring would have corrupted anyone but the strongest of hobbits.
I think Tolkein created the Hobbits as a race that was immune to the desire for power that the ring induced. Remember, Gollum was a Hobbit, as were Frodo and Bilbo, but none of the three ran for mayor of the Shire.This is what Gandalf, in his infinite wisdom, realized. The Hobbits were quiet folk without the power urge.
@ ChamaraAbout the Balrogs: the Silmarillion states that during the overthrow of Melkor 'the Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns'. So, more than one would've remained. In Lost Tales II, in the story about the Fall of Gondolin, Tolkien originally wrote there were hundreds of Balrogs. In a later note, however, he added there wouldn't have been more than 7 Balrogs. Their leader, Gothmog, was slain by Ecthelion in the fall of Gondolin.
And yes, Balrogs are Maia's, but Maia aren't all equally powerful I believe? I thought Sauron was an exceptionally powerful one (he was the lieutenant of Morgoth), so he probably could command the Balrogs...I think.
dont you guys think it was pretty lucky that isildur managed to cut of saurons finger that had the ring on it?
sauron was pretty dumb to try and grab isildur with the hand with the ring wasnt he!
Geoffrey wrote: "I think Tolkein created the Hobbits as a race that was immune to the desire for power that the ring induced..."Remember that no rings were given to the hobbits. They were given to major races like men, elves, and dwarves so that Sauron would have control over all of them (and the orcs were his anyway).
BACK TO TOPIC:
Mt. Doom was actually quite guarded. Here is the defense from the outside defense to the inner defense:
1: Black gate
2: Towers of Cirith Ungol (view spoiler) and Barad-dur (with the eye on top)
3: Poisonous, waterless, food-less, hot environment that IS Mordor
4: Orcs running around all over the place + Nazgul and fell beasts
5: Mt. Doom itself (you have to climb it)
Also, he thought the Ring was with Aragorn or in Gondor. Couldn't see under his own nose...sorry, that was Voldemort. Sauron couldn't see under his own eye.
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