The Not-So Austen Bookclub discussion
Bookworm Debates
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Chivalry ~ Alive, Dead or Napping?
Catalina wrote: "I want Will's top hat!"Haha as do I.
Olivia wrote: "Anna wrote: "Booknut wrote: "To all the girl bookworms out there (and any guys, if you're brave enough!): Do you think chivalry still exists? Do you WANT it to? And do you believe in the beli..."
Haha how could you not :)
Catalina wrote: "I want Will's top hat!"Ah don't we all ;)
Anna wrote: "Catalina wrote: "I want Will's top hat!"Ah don't we all ;)"
Haha Hence, my profile picture:P
What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!
Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"
I think it is stuck in Pride and Prejudice. C'mon Darcy, can't you come back to life and teach some boys some manners?
I think it is stuck in Pride and Prejudice. C'mon Darcy, can't you come back to life and teach some boys some manners?
Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"It exists, it's just not as common.
Catalina wrote: "Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"I think it is stuck in Pride and Prejudice. C'mon Darcy, ca..."
Oh! I think Mr. Darcy could do some good in the world if he were here:P He could teach men how to chivalrous...and then he could marry me:)
Haha! Yes, I think guys now need some lessons on how to treat ladies. And Mr. Darcy would be an excellent teacher. ;)
Anne wrote: "Haha! Yes, I think guys now need some lessons on how to treat ladies. And Mr. Darcy would be an excellent teacher. ;)"Precisely!
Olivia said: Oh! I think Mr. Darcy could do some good in the world if he were here:P He could teach men how to be chivalrous...and then he could marry me:)
Sorry, Olivia, but he's already marrying me!
Sorry, Olivia, but he's already marrying me!
Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"It's out there somewhere..I'll tell y'all if I find it :)
Olivia wrote: "Oh! I think Mr. Darcy could do some good in the world if he were here:P He could teach men how to chivalrous...and then he could marry me:) Hahahaha great idea Olivia!! ;)
Catalina wrote: "Olivia said: Oh! I think Mr. Darcy could do some good in the world if he were here:P He could teach men how to be chivalrous...and then he could marry me:)Sorry, Olivia, but he's already marryin..."
Haha funny!!!
Anna wrote: "Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"It's out there somewhere..I'll tell y'all if I find it :)"
It is out there:) And haha as will !
Anna wrote: "Olivia wrote: "Oh! I think Mr. Darcy could do some good in the world if he were here:P He could teach men how to chivalrous...and then he could marry me:) Hahahaha great idea Olivia!! ;)"
Thanks:) I sure thought so:P
Loegwen wrote: "It's so hard to find those kinds of guys. We find 'em in the classics and books. But never in real life!Our society is messed up."
THIS
Olivia wrote: "Anna wrote: "Lucinda wrote: "What guy opens a door for you?? What guy stands up on the bus or train so that you can sit down??...where is chivalry?!"It's out there somewhere..I'll tell y'all if I..."
WE.WILL.FIND.HIM!!! *grins*
You seem very confident of that Anna...good luck! No seriously, there are indaviduals with manners and who possess those mannerisms that were ever present in Austen's era but i think they are few and far between.
Lucinda wrote: "You seem very confident of that Anna...good luck! No seriously, there are indaviduals with manners and who possess those mannerisms that were ever present in Austen's era but i think they are few a..."Thanks Lucinda! I think I may need it :)
Lucinda wrote: "You seem very confident of that Anna...good luck! No seriously, there are indaviduals with manners and who possess those mannerisms that were ever present in Austen's era but i think they are few a..."I don't doubt that...sad, but true.
*sigh* If only we still had chivalry... the world would be a much nicer place.
Leah ~ Still Trying To Find My Place wrote: "*sigh* If only we still had chivalry... the world would be a much nicer place."I second that!! :)
i know some people think chivalry is an outmoded remnant of a patriarchal system, but i think it's sweet. so many people are rude nowadays, i always find it quite charming when someone comes along with some of that old-world politeness.
I think the idea of chivalry is a bit ridiculous. A man should hold the door open, pull out a woman's chair, stand when she enters the room, etc, etc, simply because she is a woman?I don't think so.
I see nothing wrong with doing those things for a woman because he loves her and respects her and WANTS to. But to feel obligated to act that way towards her simply because of her sex is wrong. It's even murkier territory now because it is easier for individuals with a more fluid/less constant/less definitive gender to be so openly.
From a really great post on the Nerdy Feminist:
"I do not want any person to look at me and treat me differently based off of my gender, even if that treatment is favorable. The same goes for stereotypes of all sorts--just because something is "nice" (ie Asians are so smart!) doesn't make it any less racist. So with chivalry, just because it's "friendly," doesn't make it any less sexist."
Politeness should go in every direction, obviously, as a sign of respect and common courtesy.
Pinkie Pie wrote: "Politeness should go in every direction, obviously, as a sign of respect and common courtesy."i really like this idea.
Nenia wrote: "i know some people think chivalry is an outmoded remnant of a patriarchal system, but i think it's sweet. so many people are rude nowadays, i always find it quite charming when someone comes along ..."I definitely agree. To find chivalry in such a rude world is a very special thing :)
It better just be sleeping, or else I'm gonna be mad.
βιβλιοφάγος (a.k.a. Cat) wrote: "It better just be sleeping, or else I'm gonna be mad."Maybe someone just needs to kiss it awake ;)
I think its just sleeping. Some guys (not many) are very chivalrous but they just don't show it. I only met one person who had openly shown it.
If it is a matter of my personal assumptions. As a whole, I believe chivalry to be alive. Though much more scarce than it once was. If we are speaking on a matter that takes place on a level of individuality I believe it could be one of all three. In the present day, I think that chivalry has been downgraded from its once important role in society. With many ignorant, oblivious males that I have met, I believe that if it is present then it must be highly guarded. We cannot deny we now live in a society that corrupts our youth to care for things of no relevance and care more about outward appearance rather than true valued traits. Even through these hardships, I believe chivalry remains. Even so, it is a rare trait and should be shared whenever possible.
Well said. People, there is a reason I miss Great Britain in the 1800's.
The base concept of chivalry is that you should serve others first, think of their needs before your own. "Do to others what you would have them do to you" and all that jazz. Men are the ones expected to be this way, but it's all of us. Men, women, and those who classify themselves differently, all need to have chivalry and equality on their minds and in their hearts. Much as we like to blame men, if they're not going to step up and treat people right (regardless of gender or age) it's up to us to set the example. Chivalry is for everyone, and it isn't found just in elegantly dressed men from 200 years ago.
Books have totally set a standard in my mind on how guys should express themselves. Chivalry is probably napping, which is sad because I hope to find someone who portrays the qualities of the boy characters I fell in love with. Is that so bad?
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Personally, Elizabeth, I don't think that's bad at all! Have standards - that's a must - and if you truly believe that chivalry is only 'napping' (so to speak) then...wake it up! Make sure others know that these qualities shouldn't be asleep, but are actually appreciated.
I think that literature (more YA and NA) tend to have this idea that guys don't need to necessarily be chivalrous. And when I say chivalrous, I mean 'guys actually treat you with something reminiscent of respect.' Guy characters tend to get themselves into females' hearts using a mixture of charm, good looks, and that stereotypical 'love monologue' where they spurt out all their faults, how they've treated her badly, and how they're utterly in love with her.
So I'd have to agree - chivalry is definitely taking a bit of a nap. But I'd like to think of chivalry as a hibernating bear. Sooner of later, it's gotta wake up! It can't stay sleeping forever.
Hopefully!
I totally agree with you Book nut! As in, most YA author's display chivalry in a different way. The charming ways..etc. I also believe chivalry has morphed into something different over time, it doesn't hold the same meaning that it once possessed.
"Chivalry ~ Alice, Dead or Napping"
Napping.
There are some really sweet guys but it seems the majority of the best ones are either taken, gay or fictional characters.
*pout*
It probably doesn't help that these days, so many girls my age (teenagers) think it's "cool" for a guy to make them feel insecure and all that jazz.
Guiltily, I should probably admit that I used to be one of those girls...
Napping.
There are some really sweet guys but it seems the majority of the best ones are either taken, gay or fictional characters.
*pout*
It probably doesn't help that these days, so many girls my age (teenagers) think it's "cool" for a guy to make them feel insecure and all that jazz.
Guiltily, I should probably admit that I used to be one of those girls...
Chivalry is hanging in there. It's not always seen, but it's there sometimes.
... Just not in 90 - 95% of the teenage male population.
Mod
Lol - agreed!!
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I can tell they're being genuine when they're kind, but when they switch their personality so randomly it's a bit like 'where did that sweet guy go?'.
It seems that guys - at least the ones at my school - are nice only when they aren't with their friends. Such a shame...
are nice only when they aren't with their friends. One reason for this I guess is that around their friends they feel more comfortable so they think they can act as they like. <-- Well that's an idea anyways, not necessarily the truth, and certainly not an excuse for them. :p
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One reason for this I guess is that around their friends they feel more comfortable so they think they can act as they like. <-- Well that's an ..."
Peer pressure?
I mean you've got to keep up your reputation around your friends.
It might just be that they act differently around different people. They'll act one way around their teachers, one way around their parents, one way around their friends etc.
Something I learnt from my sister. We're always different people every day.
Thank you:) I do too:P