Out of the Past (1947)/Build My Gallows High

[Toby]

Tuesday night is Noir night in our household, this week we're watching Out of the Past from 1947 for the first time, starring Robert Mitchum and Jane Greer. Has anyone seen it? Or read the novel it was based on? Build My Gallows High seems like the kind of book you fellow pulp afficionados might have come across before.

[Juuso]

I've read the novel about ten or so years ago, but unfortunately can't remember much of it. Seen the movie too, at least 3-4 times. Surely one of the greatest film noirs and what I DO remember about the novel, it wasn't bad either.

Sorry, not much to say, but said it anyway being my first post here and all :) Hope you enjoyed the movie.

[Adam]

I love "Out of the Past." I've seen it many, many times.

I recently reviewed it, too:

http://ocdviewer.com/2011/12/14/out-of-the-past-nov-13-1947/

[Toby]

it was excellent. filled with everything a film noir is known for. including absurdly convoluted plot that you let it get away with because in this movie it's such minor detail.

i'm amazed that i'd never heard of it before.

[Kurt]

Yes, it's a good one. I've not read the book but I love the movie. And Jane Greer is quite the babe in it. Especially that look of hunger in her eyes when Mitchum and his ex-partner are fighting in the cabin. Cool movie.

[Franky]

I'll have to check this one out.

[Toby]

ahh that fist fight was one of the best i remember seeing in a film.

[Adrien]

The remake, Against All Odds (1984) is worth a look, too, if you are interested in Neo-Noirs.

[Toby]

Are you sure about that Adrien? I just checked it out on imdb and the cover image for the dvd makes it look really cheesy. I do love Jeff Bridges but i'm struggling to think of any of the 80's noir remakes that weren't a travesty.

[Kurt]

It was a remake and Jane Greer has a small cameo in it.

[Toby]

Kurt wrote: "It was a remake and Jane Greer has a small cameo in it."

that is a fun fact kurt, might even be worth watching for that alone. i just watched It Runs In The Family (awful awful movie) simply for Kirk Douglas as a very old man after seeing him in this as a quite young man.

i guess you might call it morbidly fascinating.

and i meant was Adrien sure that it was worth a look?

[Kurt]

If I remember right Jane Greer plays Rachel Ward's mother...? Rachel Ward is the Kathie character in Against All Odds. The story is changed somewhat from Out of the Past. I saw it in the theater when it first came out and not since, so memory is really fuzzy.

[Kurt]

Tfitoby wrote: "Kurt wrote: "It was a remake and Jane Greer has a small cameo in it."

that is a fun fact kurt, might even be worth watching for that alone. i just watched It Runs In The Family (awful awful movie)..."

BTW did you ever see Kirk Douglas in Saturn 3. Farrah Fawcett plays his wife (or girlfriend) and the difference in ages is really awkward. Although someday I'll be old too, so might as well root for the silverbacks. Harvey Keitel is in it too, and everyone, including a robot is in a lather for Farrah.

[Toby]

I tried watching sarurn 3. Ended up not really paying attention but yeah i figured the older man thing had to be intentional.

I keep thinking i'll read the book, its martin amis i think which is intriguing all on its own

[Jim]

The difference in ages was intentional in "Saturn 3" - not awkward at all. It's one of the reasons the other guy has for his jealousy upon which hinged the entire point of the movie. It wasn't a great one, but fun, IMO. I really enjoyed it when it first came out, but it hasn't aged all that well, like so many SF movies of the 70's. The technological cheese is just too much, although I still like "Silent Running" with Bruce Dern.

Those of us who grew up watching Douglas' movies when he was in his prime probably appreciated it more than those who only knew him as an older actor. Watch "Spartacus" some time or "There Was A Crooked Man" with Henry Fonda. The last is a noir western. Excellent, as I recall, but it's been a lot of years.

If you ever get a chance, read The Ragman's Son, Kirk Douglas' autobiography. I'm not much on reading up on movie stars, but this one was great. I especially loved his interactions with John Wayne. Unlike Wayne, Douglas was never typecast since he was a truly excellent actor with a huge range. While I like The Duke, he didn't really act. A part either fit him or not.

[Toby]

thanks jim, i was actually thinking about reading that last night, if i find a copy i shall have to pick it up.

[Adrien]

Tfitoby wrote: "Are you sure about that Adrien? I just checked it out on imdb and the cover image for the dvd makes it look really cheesy. I do love Jeff Bridges but i'm struggling to think of any of the 80's noir..."
Rachel Ward is hot. Jeff Bridges is always worth a watch if you like him (which I do) and I felt James Woods in Kirk Douglas' role was excellent casting. The only thing I found cheesy was the last image freeze frame to credits with Phil Collins song.

But if you don't like 80s movies, skip it.

[Adam]

Against All Odds is worth seeing once, but I don't recommend seeing it immediately after seeing Out of the Past. It will compare unfavorably.

[Toby]

ha! Phil Collins! Can anyone think of him without thinking of Christian Bale in American Psycho?

[Franky]

Hey guys, just saw this one last night from netflix.

A couple of thoughts:

Robert Mitchum (he and his character Bailey) completely defines coolness in the film. The guy is really not phased at anything thrown at him...gangsters, femme fatale, life or death situations, double-crosses, etc. So slick under pressure.

Jane Greer, as Kathie Moffat, was about as manipulative and two-faced of villianess as I've seen and can remember in a film. You really just hate this woman by film's end.

Kirk Douglas did a great job as the sleazy mobster, Sterling. He kind of gets under your skin.

Excellent, stylish, atmospheric noir. Agree with you guys, a great experience all around.

I'm still coughing from all the smoking, though.

Also, I found an appearance by Mitchum and Greer on Saturday Night Live in 1987 on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PrRf3...

There's a spoof of a noir in there as well.

[Susan]

Wow, thanks so much for posting the Youtube link. I was always a Mitchum fan.

[Franky]

Susan wrote: "Wow, thanks so much for posting the Youtube link. I was always a Mitchum fan."

No problem. I like when he says "After this show, they'll be nothing I've never done" in the opening monologue.

Always been a Mitchum fan too.

[Susan]

Loved the first skit too. Hilarious. the dialogue was so believable. At the end credits it said his daughter wrote the script for some of the skits.

[Ray]

I recently purchased from the Library of Congress the complete works of Raymond Chandler, including letters, essays, short stories and his full-length novels. Fits in nicely with my collection of Dashiell Hammett and James M. Cain. If there was a Mount Rushmore of gritty, hard-boiled crime writers, those three would certainly be on it.

Which got me to wondering: who else? Cornell Woolrich springs immediately to mind, along with Elmore Leonard and Robert Parker. Jim Thompson, Robert Parker, John MacDonald, Lawrence Block and Stephen Cannell also come to mind.

But it was Hammett and Chandler who created the template for these stories (see Chandler's essay, The Simple Art of Murder). Hammett wrote the unmatched, seminal Black Mask stories and Chandler took that style to unexpected heights. A lot of imitators crawled out of the woodwork, but other, more imaginative writers advanced the style begun by Dash and Ray.

Quite a few of them were otherwise Hollywood hacks to created a motion picture style called film noir, which ranged roughly from John Huston's The Maltese Falcon to Orson Welles' Touch of Evil and covering a whole lot of ground in between. The style centers on a sense of a fateful, unseen force that puts the finger on someone for no reason at all. It usually, not always, sets its tone and mood through harsh lighting and dark shadows. A style B movie producers indulged because they could hide shabby sets and cheap designs in the shadows, allowing them to shoot the money.

In film noir some unsuspecting patsy (man or woman) is trapped by that dark, unseen force that traps them and threatens death. It is these twisted tales that made Bogart a star, resurrected the dying career of Dick Powell, and put future stars such as Mitchum and Douglas on the map. It bolstered the careers of Davis and Crawford, elevated Greer and Trevor and Bennett, and launched Hayworth and Gardner. It was so powerful Fred Astaire and Cyd Charisse created a dance homage in The Bandwagon.

It is perhaps my favorite style and has opened doors for some of Hollywood's best, more stylized pictures: The Maltese Falcon, Murder My Sweet, The Big Sleep, Out of the Past, The Big Heat, The Killers, Double Indemnity, Scarlet Street, Crossfire, White Heat (whose director, Raoul Walsh, also made a film noir western Pursued), The Postman Always Rings Twice, Pickup on South Street and on and on.

The style had its beginning in Hammett and Chandler, two of the giants on the Mount Rushmore of crime writing.

Who would you put atop the mountain?Ray Dyson

[Algernon (Darth Anyan), Hard-Boiled]

all good names you mention here, and surely familiar to the pulp fiction fan.
The only one that I find intriguing and want to find out more about is Stephen Cannell.

Speaking of movies, I have my own pet theory that a big influence on the noir canon comes from across the ocean, from the works of Marcel Carne and Jean Renoir, that Jean Gabin is the template from which Bogart was cast ("Quai des Brumes", "Pepe le Moko")

[Still]

Interesting connection, Algernon!
I am a huge Jean Gabin fan & my wife and I try to buy every film (with English subs) we can find.
Le Bete Humain being among his greatest performances.
He seems to have been the template for many of my favorite noir actors from Bogart to Mitchum.

Out Of The Past is tied for personal "favorite film of all time" along with Chinatown and King Kong.

[Susan]

Algernon wrote: "all good names you mention here, and surely familiar to the pulp fiction fan.
The only one that I find intriguing and want to find out more about is Stephen Cannell.

Speaking of movies, I have my ..."
And perhaps Jacques Tournier? not sure if that's spelled correctly. He directed Out of the Past

[[deleted user]]

Which got me to wondering: who else? Cornell Woolrich springs immediately to mind, along with Elmore Leonard and Robert Parker. Jim Thompson, Robert Parker, John MacDonald, Lawrence Block and Stephen Cannell also come to mind....
Need to add Goodis to your list...you will be surprised to see how many movies that you've seen that come from his novels...by the way, don't know if you've noticed, but the dialogue in the Maltese Falcon (film) is just about taken verbatim from the novel.

[Jay]

I love these choices, esp. Goodis. His most popular books were Cassidy's Girl, over one million pulp paperbacks. Down There was made into Shoot the Piano Player, and goes now by this title. Street of No Return is the most interesting, and oddest treatment of his Noble Loser, who is really a man of mystic insight. He loses, then regains, his backbone. Goodis "wrote like no one else," said his friend, and the director of the film of Goodis' novel The Burglar.