The Sword and Laser discussion
Sci-Fi & Fantasy names: how fixed are your personal interpretations?
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And on a related note: what do you do if you start discussing a book with a friend and discover that they have their own interpretation of a name? How do you decide which of you is correct? or could there be a *another* (correct) way?If you cannot change your personal interpretation, are you able to at least try to use the version preferred by a friend when talking to them about a book?
I never actually worry about pronunciation to begin with. I don't 'hear' the sounds of the words as I read, so how a name is pronounced is unimportant unless I need to communicate with others.In those cases, I do try to stick with the author's intended pronunciation, no matter how differently I may have mangled the name on my own. :D
Random & Alex: Yes, I know what you both mean. Most of the time I find myself just dealing with these names as a silent mental label for the character or place.However, when I do come across such names being discussed by someone else in-person or on TV, Radio, or internet podcast's/video, I find that my mental list of names crystallizes and I suddenly find myself faced with the dilemma of "oh ... well that's not how *I* thought the name would sound, now that I think of it ..."
And then I can find it hard to switch to the alternative (correct?) version of the relevant name, instead of the way I originally interpreted the name.
Alex: wow, that's exactly how it works for me. And I utterly suck at remembering how to spell people's names, or remember names in general, or remembering how to spell in general. :DAdrian, what I have an issue with are audiobook narrators who are obviously pronouncing the names very wrong.
I recently did a Skolian Empire marathon in audio book. There were various different readers involved in the series and with some names every single one of them pronounced some of the names differently from every other narrator. Drove me nuts. It wasn't just names. One narrator pronounced the P in psion!
I have another problem with made up names: I know 3 languages, and I never know in witch one I have to pronounce this kinds of names, it sounds crazy, but I had this problem since... for ever? Something like Locke Lamora, it's easy: Locke as Veronica pronounces it and Lamora in Spanish, but with names like "Haymitch" (The Hunger Games) I get nuts. In the end I do like Random and forget about the pronunciation...
I guess that the author has the last word in this debate, he made it up and he is "God" in his world. If he can change the laws of physics, why can he change the laws of pronunciation.
I'm a shape guy too, I remember the look of the name, though that can get confusing if you are reading the WoT with its cast of thousands of named characters.
I'd always heard Bene Gesserit as "Ben GeSERit" with a hard G in my head. And then I saw the movie and they said "Ben-eh JESSerit" and it drove me crazy, it sounded so wrong.Of course, it happens in non-SF books too. It took me years to connect the name St John with its correct prononciation. (I finally put it together when I read Jane Eyre for school and couldn't figure out who my teacher was talking about when she kept saying "sinjin.")
From a young age I have been surrounded by people whose mother tongue is not English and everyone has pronounced my name differently. Once you become used to your own name being mispronounced in a myriad different ways you become less sensitive about anyone else's name.
Drizzt will always be DrizzIt to me.
running_target wrote: "Drizzt will always be DrizzIt to me."Yes, but is a Drow as in "ouch" or a Drow as in "oath?"
P. Aaron wrote: "running_target wrote: "Drizzt will always be DrizzIt to me."Yes, but is a Drow as in "ouch" or a Drow as in "oath?""
As in OW! Your spider goddess bit me!
Alex wrote: "This definitely happened to me as a kid with Hermione..."I'm pretty sure that's why Rowling put that bit into -- was it Goblet of Fire? -- with the guy who kept mispronouncing her name as Hermy-Own and she kept correcting him. That's a trick I've seen used a couple of other places as well although I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.
(And my own personal issue with Locke Lamora, which I haven't read yet but plan to Real Soon Now is that every time I hear the name I flash on Loch Lomond.)
When trying to figure out name pronunciation, I usually try to figure out what sort of culture the author is using as a base, and then work from there. In some novels, like Throne of the Crescent Moon, for instance, I knew automatically that this was going to be based on Middle-Eastern mythology/folklore, so that meant everything was meant to be pronounced in Arabic fashion. The Lies of Locke Lamora was another easy one: everything was based on Renaissance Europe, and mostly centered in a Venice-analogue, so that meant European languages were the base, with variations occurring based on whether or not the name in question "looked" Spanish/Italian, French, German, or English. In some cases, especially with funky alien names, I don't think those were ever meant to be read aloud, and are used more to represent the "alien" nature of the character they represent. I think this was how H.P. Lovecraft approached the naming of his Elder Gods, and it's how I tend to approach some alien names.
The names in the Wheel of Time series drove me nuts. For example, I always pronouced Nynaeve's name as Nin Na Eve. Then heard Robert Jordan pronounce it as NINE NAVE. I still struggle with that one.
Ah yes, Nynaeve ... this one has stuck with me phonetically as Nin-ay-eve.The most idiotic mis-interpretation I ever had was many years ago when I first read "The Colour of Magic" by Terry Pratchett. I must have been tired when I started reading, because the first time I came across Rincewind, somehow I got it stuck in my mind as Rince-weed ... yes, despite his name being very clearly spelt as Rince-wind, I had the whole "pattern of letters" recognition associated with the utterly incorrect Rince-weed! Thankfully I got that straightened out in a few days.
Note to self: starting a new book when very tired results in weird things happening ...
Jess wrote: "Of course, it happens in non-SF books too. It took me years to connect the name St John with its correct prononciation. (I finally put it together when I read Jane Eyre for school and couldn't figure out who my teacher was talking about when she kept saying "sinjin.")"You obviously never watched Air Wolf. ;)
As others have mentioned, I never pronounce weirdly spelled names. I just remember their word shapes. Much the same way I would remember a hieroghglyph or image representing a character.Authors thinking up weird names and weird spellings really do their reader a dis-service.
(and there should be a law that requires authors to read their story out loud to an audience before they send in the final draft, so they know how embarrassed you feel trying to tell your friends and relatives about it)
I usually pronounce the words the way they make sense to me. With the Celtic words, I try my heart to remember the Celtic pronunciation, but they fly out of my head as soon as I turn away from the correct pronunciations.
I read whole words not phonetically so the word is often simply connected with an emotion. For example while I think of Daenerys by her name to me her brother is 'vicious'.
Leslie wrote: "The names in the Wheel of Time series drove me nuts. For example, I always pronouced Nynaeve's name as Nin Na Eve. Then heard Robert Jordan pronounce it as NINE NAVE. I still struggle with that ..."I agree with you. I pronounced her name Nin-uh-Vee. I pronounce Perrin's wife's name Fay-lee.
Esther wrote: "From a young age I have been surrounded by people whose mother tongue is not English and everyone has pronounced my name differently. Once you become used to your own name being mispronounced in a ..."I have to smile at this. My last name is a fairly normal German name, but after 10 years in the military with every possible (and impossible) pronunciation, I'm indeed less sensitive.
On the subject, I don't even try to pronounce most Fantasy or Sword and Sorcery names. I generally just recognize the word and go from there.
I usually don't mind when 'exotic' names end up being pronounced differently than what my brain was doing. I only get annoyed when people pronounce perfectly normal names strangely. re: COLON Powell.
Courtney wrote: "I agree with you. I pronounced her name Nin-uh-Vee. I pronounce Perrin's wife's name Fay-lee"The WOT names still get me. I have them stuck in my head wrong and they won't come out. I guess its because I read those books from such a young age and nobody else I knew at the time read them so I had nothing to compare them with.
Every time I hear somebody pronounce Perrin or Nynaneve, or even Egwene correctly I have to do a double take and realize who they are talking about.
For me Perrin (pear-in) is "PIER IN"
Nynaneve is "Knee Nay Eve"
Egwene is "EEE GAAWEENNEE" (don't know how I got an "A" in there but it's stuck forever)
For years and years after I read the Hobbit as a youngster, I thought the main character was Biblo Baggins. It took a few more years after I found out I was wrong to start calling him Bilbo in my head. I still lapse once in a while.
When I was a kid I read the C.S. Lewis books and I thought Narnia was pronounced Nar-Nye-A. I also thought Jane Eyre was pronounce Eye-er (like eye in eyeball).Courtney
When I learn the "right" pronunciation of a fantasy name, I usually try to use that pronunciation for a while. Sometimes it sticks. Sometimes, my original pronunciation is just easier for me. Then I'll stick with mine, thanks.In the case of the Wheel of Time, it seems like the trick to getting a lot of the names right is to try to read with them a Southern accent. I don't know how thick Jordan's own accent was, but he did live in the South, after all.
When it comes to WOT, I don't even want to begin trying to get the "correct" pronunciation. I like the names that i gave to the characters. Schizo, Bossy, Dummy, Redhead, Meathead, Perrin...
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Throne of the Crescent Moon (other topics)The Lies of Locke Lamora (other topics)
The Hunger Games (other topics)
Wonderful! .. err ... except the Author is pronouncing all the names of the characters and places in the book wrong! Arrgghhh!!!
Welcome to the brain-freeze zone, where your first interpretations of the character and place names in a new book become set in stone. This is a particularly acute problem in the Sci-Fi and Fantasy genres, where *normal* names are just not the done thing. "M'k-bhat Kz'Eal-Tu" is a much more likely style of name in the S&L worlds.
Personally I do make an attempt to use the *correct* versions of names when I become aware of them, but I generally fail and fall-back to my original interpretation. A prime example of this I have had recently has been with "The Lies of Locke Lamora". I first read "Locke" in a phonetic manner as Lock-ee. On a recent podcast I discovered that our dear Veronica pronounces it as "Locke" with a silent "e" ... try as I might, I cannot convince myself to use anything other than Lock-ee for "Locke".
So if you find yourself in such a situation, what do you do?
Can you deal with it and simply replace your mental roster of character and place name pronunciations with the *correct* ones?
Or do you simply ignore reality and stick with your own interpretation?
... or is it just me? :-D