Unwind
discussion
This article convinced me that the reality from Unwind is actually possible.
It scares me, how crazy the world is getting. When I first read Unwind, I thought it was a great book and an interesting concept. I didn't think the world would really end in a civil war about abortion though. I was wrong.
Every day, I see more articles in the news about taxes levied against abortions, the mandatory "rape" of women wanting or needing an abortion. I see men in politics trying to control our lives. I believe abortion is wrong, but I couldn't say that if I was raped and got pregnant from that rape that I wouldn't abort that child. If I was pregnant with a child that was severely disabled and would have a life expectancy of one month and would suffer needlessly for that one month, a pregnancy I might not survive, I can't say I wouldn't abort that child. I am also not so naive as to believe that if I can't take care of a child, I can give it up for adoption and it will live a happy life with another family who can. The majority of children adopted are less than a year old; after that window, percentages of adoptions drop. How many people are willing to take in a child that's not their own? How many people are willing to take in a child that's not their own and is disabled or has been abused?
I believe abortion is wrong, but I should be the only one who makes that final choice. Me, not a governor who cannot even understand what it's like to be pregnant, let alone the decision to end a pregnancy. His religious or personal beliefs should not be allowed to infringe upon MY rights as a woman and as a human being.
look at what happened at the one school in Massachusettes...while there is no definitive linkage between the lack of sex ed and teen pregnancy, they had a "pregnancy pack" as termed by the media, and the school wouldn't acknowledge it for the longest time
I'm pro-choice even though I went through 4 yrs of infertilty treatments and still ended up with - no kids. So I agree that it's nuts that these politicians push for these laws, my gawd how closed can your mind be.What freaked me out was the harvesting of parts from perfectly healthy kids - while they are awake! That whole chapter on Roland - oye vey!!!
I'm of the opinion that government is bad at human issues. They're good at building roads, and locking up criminals, and bombing cities, but they're not good at compassion or common-sense.You know what? The Unwind scenario seems too insane to think possible, but reality these days is utterly insane too. If we don't lock this down now, who knows where it will go?
First off, thank god other ppl have actually read this book! i looove it! but now that I see everything in the news and all, having a 3rd world war over abortion wouldn't exactly surprise me!...(a little scary). where is our country going...I hope it never comes to that, or at least the extent of it in the book.neal schusterman may not be only BRILLIANT...but possibly psychic as well.
Add up all the casualties the United States has had in every single war and it's lower than the number of babies aborted each year. Goodreads is for books. Not arguing over tolerance. That's what yahoo is for. Let's try to keep all discussions relevant to Unwind.
While I'm not concerned that the book will become a reality in the near future, I can see many seedlings of that world in ours. Forget about abortion for a second. I've read other books where children are illegal to a certain extent. Ender's Game, Among the Hidden, and The Giver all take place in worlds with two child limits. The Declaration by Gemma Malley has children outlawed altogether.
In both reality and books, there are parents who want to be rid of their children. Read Shock Point by April Henry. You've heard of boot camps, brat camps, reform schools, correctional facilities, all those different names for places miles from civilization where parents send defiant teenagers like Connor. I'm not talking about juvie or military schools, these are places people pay five figures a month to keep their kids there in hopes that they'll turn out better than they were. Kids have died in those places.
What would those parents do if Unwinding were legal? Just like the boot camps parents, the adults in this book honestly believe they're doing it for their childrens' own good.
Erica wrote: "Add up all the casualties the United States has had in every single war and it's lower than the number of babies aborted each year. Goodreads is for books. Not arguing over tolerance. That's what ..."
Excuse me!?!
I must admit, I was horrified by the premise of this book. (In fact, when I tell other people about it they look at me like I just announced that I ate my child for breakfast!) It was horrifying. However, more horrifying was reading it and discovering how eerily close our society is to the one in Unwind. It doesn't take much to extrapolate our disrespect/regard for human life and human beings. And that, is truly scary. We are already having the train of thought for "unwinding." We have no problem killing off embryos used for stem cell research, or aborting babies, or even cutting budgets for children's services. As for the pro-life/pro-choice discussion, I was surprised that, as a pro-life advocate, I was convinced that it is not necessarily the right choice. But neither is pro-choice. I think what our society needs to do is spend their time and resources into educating people about abstinence and hopefully prevent most of these tough decisions and moral/ethical issues. Of course, there is the ethical issue of stem cell research, IVF, and now with couples who could conceive naturally but choose to create "super babies" via IVF . . . there's a whole new can of worms to open!
Abstinence education, clearly and demonstrably, is an option that doesn't work, better to educate on contraception and the self respect to insist on it if one chooses to have sex.
Cayra wrote: "It scares me, how crazy the world is getting. When I first read Unwind, I thought it was a great book and an interesting concept. I didn't think the world would really end in a civil war about ab..."Amen. When people act like they know EXACTLY what the person is going through and THEN try to pass judgement, it makes me sick. They have no idea what that person has gone through previous to the act. I don't support abortion as a birth control, and it would make me sad if someone did; but (I hope) if someone was raped and didn't feel strong enough to have the baby, then instead exiling them and telling them to "have the baby anyway!" I would be able to say, "That's okay, you did not place this lot upon yourself; It's your decision."
I've actually seen this book catagorized as 'pro-life' and I just don't see it. Now, I don't know what Shustermen's feelings on the isssue are, and I don't think the book was written just to advance a viewpoint, (Mostly because it doesn't suck). But what I got from it was that unwinding was demonstrably worse than abortion, and it took willful blindness to the issue to think that unwinding teenagers was anything like a 'solution' to the 'abortion problem'. Anyone else seen this book mischaracterized this way?
The thing that I liked best about this book is that it presented the moral dilemnas posed by both sides of the debate. We all wish we had clear lines between right and wrong but there aren't or at least they aren't always obvious. Modern science has made the lines even blurrier. We are fortunate that out debates about these subjects happens in the open. Wherever we fall on right to life issues, the debate will hopefully help us make thoughtful decisions as a country.
This book really got to me because it seemed so realistic. I could really see this happening some time in the future. To me, the thought of unwinding is an extremely cruel choice. To let a child live and then say: "Well, that's all you get. You're not going to get to be your own person anymore but, hey, you'll help someone else so it's not all bad." How could anyone do that? How is that even considered life after an unwinding is done? I would think things would be better off if scientists just continued to figure out how to grow organs using a person's own cells so their bodies wouldn't reject them.
The quote at the beginning of part 1, is quite bewildering; almost like you're not sure whether to agree with it or not; "I'd rather be partly great than entirely useless."
Due out on the 28th of August
AWESOME! And my library has it on order. Hold placed!!
Wow, reading that article really made me sick to my stomach. I think I need a break before finishing that.
im not super sure what to say about this issue. im still sort of processing although i feel like, after reading this article and all of your responses, i have to say SOMETHING. i guess i will say this. it is my opinion that the government does not have the right to invade personal privacy for the sake of a zygote. i believe that abortions should be avoided at all costs (i think everyone does) but i do not think that they should, by any means, be made illegal. this is a degradation of the rights of pregnant women. i believe that the only reason this topic is still hotly debated is because of the religious undertones. lets face it though, without the religion aspect, pro-lifers have little to no case and the argument seems silly. with religion, there is, as unwind predicts, the possibility of world war 3. i am an atheist so i find that looking at this problem logically is easier for me than for others. pro-choice is the only option that satisfies the parties INVOLVED. i do not think that anyone but the mother and the doctor has a right to say what will happen to that zygote. freedom of religion means that an individual has the freedom to practice their religion as they see fit. it does not give them the right to force others to conform to their faith's guidelines.
on to unwind. i think this article fits very well with the book. i think the reason that we all like the book is because it takes an issue that is being debated to day and stretches it to the extremes. i can see how this book would, on the surface, be pro-life but i think that is shows the downfalls of both opinions. the downfall of pro-choice is shown in the unwinding process and the downfall of pro-life is shown in the storking process (remember that?). unwind shows us that there is no right answer to this problem and that we should all just mind our own business without government intervention.
on to unwind. i think this article fits very well with the book. i think the reason that we all like the book is because it takes an issue that is being debated to day and stretches it to the extremes. i can see how this book would, on the surface, be pro-life but i think that is shows the downfalls of both opinions. the downfall of pro-choice is shown in the unwinding process and the downfall of pro-life is shown in the storking process (remember that?). unwind shows us that there is no right answer to this problem and that we should all just mind our own business without government intervention.
Jaclyn wrote: "I've actually seen this book catagorized as 'pro-life' and I just don't see it. Now, I don't know what Shustermen's feelings on the isssue are, and I don't think the book was written just to advanc..."One thing that I like about this book is that it does not contain any moral "answers" or advice, just encouragement to think about the issues and where our future is headed. My favorite scene is when Connor, Emby, and some other kids are discussing the issues involved in unwinding while they are in the crate. When one kid says that "I don't know" isn't an answer, and Connor insists that it is and more people need to admit that they don't know, I think he is absolutely right.
a certain party ( in North America) wants to force women into carrying a child if raped, this same law would prohibit fertility drugs and allow women and couples the right to a child. Contradictory in my opinion. The abortion issue is a hot one and will continue to do so.As the article states why are people (men) who otherwise cannot get pregnant making laws about something they cannot know anything about. Pregnancy is a very personal. People have the right to choose what they do with their bodies.
The Unwind series is amazing and I feel that it needed to be written I give an applause to Neal for writing about something that is truly dangerous and can end health care as we all know it.
Solenoid wrote: "I'm of the opinion that government is bad at human issues. They're good at building roads, and locking up criminals, and bombing cities, but they're not good at compassion or common-sense.You kn..."
May I just say that was an extremely good response?
I just finished this book, and while reading, I kept thinking...is this a pro-choice or an anti-abortion book? Am I supposed to be really happy or really annoyed? I only put it down ten minutes ago, but I think that internal discussion will be happening for awhile.My current impulse is that it is more pro-choice than anti-abortion. Most pro-choice people, like myself, consider abortions to be a woman's choice up to the end of the first trimester, after which it should only be performed if the woman's life is in danger; after that, science tells us that the fetus is sentient, and so the issues get even more ethically charged than they already were. Storking shows the unfortunate result of forcing women to have children when the system is not set up to support them after the emotional, physical, and financial strain of pregnancy and labour. I would hope that the idea of unwinding teenagers is abhorrent to just about everyone, no matter which side of this issue they find themselves on ;)
To respond to the initial post, I agree that zygotes and embryos are all too often privileged over the lives of the women whose bodies are carrying them.
Hmmmmmmmmm, I'm 14, so it's not like anything I say actually matters. But I would never have an abortion (unless I was say, raped) and since I'm a Muslim, I couldn't get an abortion due to my religion, but it's not as strict as Christianity is. If the mother's life is in danger, it pretty much tells that fetus to take a hike. I personally agree with that. Generally it's teens own faults for having children and being stupid, so they should have to suffer the consequences, but at the same time, I wouldn't want that child to have a bad life just because the mother made one bad decision at a young age. Politicians believe that all abortion can fit in this tiny box which is 'no abortion under any circumstance' but that isn't true. They need to realize that every situation is different and that people need to make decisions based on their situation. :D
Erica wrote: "Add up all the casualties the United States has had in every single war and it's lower than the number of babies aborted each year. Goodreads is for books. Not arguing over tolerance. That's what ..."
If all the discussion that came from a book were only relevant to the book itself and never talked about real issues in real life, the author would be highly disappointed. Reading books would have nothing to do with how a person thinks about the real world. And the reason books are written is to make people like us think about the real world, something bigger than the book. The author addresses a topic, states his or her own opinion, maybe gives an example of how they think it is or how to fix it, then the discussion is up to us. If the book is about the real world, why shouldn't we bring the discussion to be about the real world as well? Who's to say Yahoo owns the rights to certain opinions, that they have no place here? These statements belong to people, we'll choose where to say them, thank you very much.
In my personal opinion, Yahoo is for gossip and "shocker" stories, not real news or serious discussion of anything. But that's just a judgment from viewing what they choose to display as front-page headlines almost every day for a few years.
Mandy wrote: "I just finished this book, and while reading, I kept thinking...is this a pro-choice or an anti-abortion book? Am I supposed to be really happy or really annoyed? I only put it down ten minutes ago..."The narration for when the young girl storks her baby says that the laws that were supposed to protect the value of life just make life cheap. I think that some of the abortion laws that some people propose, such as the one that would make a woman carry a miscarried baby to term, are doing just that. The expectation of women to value their fetus' life over their own does nothing to prove that all life is sacred.
While reading the book, and beeing a medical news junkie, I know that it's only a matter of time before this process is perfected. It would be black market, then be cheaper than housiing orphans or juvie kids or guys on death row or kids who are severely disturbed. Maybe suicidal ones as well (a version of physician assisted suicide). Just think about it.As for the abortion issue, let me first say that I'm a 24 year old college grad (journalism, learned each facet). I was sexually assaulted 2 years ago on April 17th, 11 days before my birthday, by a guy my age who my parents let live in our house. He is a pro fighter and would have raped me but I'm a virgin, and after unsuccessgully fighting him off, I thankfully was able to at least insist I was enough to prevent that. parents still let him come over and have a positive relationship with him, as my mom partly blames me (no reason to, in all honesty... I hate lying, and he did it all the time... so much more to add, but I digress.) I also had to get a full hysterectomy at 22 due to endometriosis I'd had since I was 11, b/c an idiotic OBGYN cut into it and made it spread like w wildfire. I also grew up around the med field cuz of my mom. What I want to say is that I had to fight hard for a hysterectomy and was refused one even though I was an adult, would have died with any othher treatment, and it eventually got so bad that I could barely move, but was told no by a male doc till I found a specialist (male) who said it was my choice). Kicker? Was infirtile anyways by then. Then, with being forced to keep silent abt the assault, developing PTSD, and still having to hear the guy and about him is hell. I think if I'd become pregnant from a rape, even though I'm a Christian and think abortion is wrong, I would have done it. The amount of fighting women have to do to have any ccontrol over what happens or doesn't happen to our bodies is absolutely disgusting and horrible and, yeah, another sexual assault/rape psychologically and physically. How about men who have been raped or choose between death or childbirth set up the laws regarding all of this? Or listen to us??? I agree with the original poster. This is terrifying.
It always amazed me that choices and laws regarding the reproduction are made by men, not women - people who will never know what it's all like - being pregnant/being raped and getting pregnant/not able to become pregnant etc. It's just so ridiculous, I don't even know what it can be compared with. Me personally, I think humanity should invest time and money in the planning of reproduction, educating young adults about the usage of contraception etc. Some government regulation of prices on the easiest way of contraception - condoms - would also help. Here, in Russia, one single pack of condoms costs as much as, say, bread +2 packs of milk + chicken + eggs, food enough for a person to last 4 days. So not all people can afford buying condoms. They often see it's easier to get pregnant and have an abortion one time, than to buy condoms constantly and paying a lot of money for it. Low life standards are also the reason for it, and government does nothing to make contraception more available. There's also a law that says you get paid if you have 2 children (around $10000), not in cash, but like they compensate your apartment cost and education. And who they expect to have children on this conditions? This thoughts aside, I think the higher percentage of women in the government would help the situation.
i loved the books it was interesting but it scares me what is to come of the future, would/can this happen and if it does would ppl know tht we should change fast before this happens, if it does, i agree tht if your a woman with a child and u knew tht it would b a disabled child and it would suffer or die later on i wouldnt b against abortion if it was to help the child and dont let it suffer for his/her life but i am againts abortion...ABORTION IS BAD my opinion, and i do think tht what is happening to america and everything, like missing children and etc., is just horrible, what if they are trying to do it right now with mostly missing children missing what if they are trying to do tht and are working at it but don't want to say...and i did hear tht they are trying to grow a artificail heart,ok i know it can help ppl, but i just dont think we should try to play god and everything...lets just hope this wont happen
Nasra wrote: "Hmmmmmmmmm, I'm 14, so it's not like anything I say actually matters. But I would never have an abortion (unless I was say, raped) and since I'm a Muslim, I couldn't get an abortion due to my relig..."What you say definitely matters :) I think it's great that you're already tackling such an important issue in your own mind.
H99 wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Mandy wrote: "I just finished this book, and while reading, I kept thinking...is this a pro-choice or an anti-abortion book? Am I supposed to be really happy or really annoyed? I onl..."Agree completely. I never understood how anyone who argues for the sanctity of life will completely disregard the life of the woman.
First off, I'd like to say I loved the book because I've always been fascinated by morbid ideas and I think it's a terrifying concept. In the future I could see this as a possibility and quite honestly I don't want to be around for the outcome.Secondly, that article horrified me. The amount of power some individuals come into possession of, is too much for any single person and I think corruption is inevitable which is how some of these crazy ideas are brought about. And it doesn't take much to attract followers. Some people, my grandma as a prime example, allow the government to do whatever. She prefers to stay blind and happy and unfortuntely that's not the way to be. That's how these ideas are progressed.
But those are just my thoughts on it. Good discussion topic!
I am absolutely pro-life, and, while I indeed do not know what it's like to be pregnant, I know many women who do that will back me up on the following statement: abortion is murder. Yes, I understand that many women that are raped become pregnant, but only .5% of abortions are performed due to rape or someone else wanting the abortion. 95% of abortions are performed as a means of birth control-only 7% of women reported aborting due to her health or the baby's. My point is, if you don't want a baby at the current time, just try to be a bit more careful with what you're doing. Now, obviously if you're raped, it's a little different, but there's ALWAYS another option. Somewhere in this world, there is a couple who wants a baby more than anything but can't have one. How do you think that they would feel to be able to adopt this baby? Finally, many people will use the excuse that the Bible says that we should not judge others, and I agree that it's in there (Matthew 7:1 actually), but the Bible also says that murder is wrong. Rant over.
I understand that the woman isn't always a Christian; however, that said, many people will use that excuse, and I was simply countering it. Also, these are my personal beliefs, which I was using to contribute to my opinion.
Okay, I might might MIGHT be able to partially understand because of SERIOUS health complications on the part of the woman and/or baby. But, as I said before, 95% of abortions are performed as a means of birth control; this is what I am against.
A few questionsWho determines if the pregnancy is the result of the woman's negligence? And how far does the investigation go to prove this?
If rape is one of the few ways to gain and medically safe abortion (as opposed to the unsafe backyard abortions) how do we deal with the potential increase in rape claims?
Who is responsible for the financial support of the woman and child?
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.
And one individual's rights do not trump another's, so even if we grant the fetus personhood (which when the arguments aren't religious is the main thrust here) no person has the right to use another's body, one cannot be compelled to donate blood, bone marrow, organs, skin ect. Consider the case of a man who runs over a child, they are both taken to the emergency room and it turns out that coincidentally they driver and child have the same rare blood type and the child needs a transfusion, the only option is the driver. He cannot be compelled, even if the the child's death will the the result of not receiving a transfusion, to donate his blood.
Do you not see the slippery slope here? Soon we'll be investigating women's lives when she miscarries for possibles murder charges, did she smoke, drink, take medications ect ect. Not long after that fertile women will be forbidden certain activities because they could be pregnant and or it may effect possible future pregnancies before long women become nothing more than walking talking incubators...
And before people trot out he adoption alternative, I'd like to remind folk that there are millions of children already in the world, millions, waiting for adoption by loving families granted they're not all babies, but life ain't perfect.
I do just want to add that I ABSOLUTELY agree with the fact that abortion should NEVER be a form of birth control. I only agree in cases of rape or medical necessity (which means the mother would otherwise die, NOT because of any medical abnormalities the baby may have).I love that this discussion is so open with so many intelligent people, and no disrespect. Thank you for beginning this, Jennifer, and to everybody else for adding your thoughts in a respectful manner. I will definitely be participating in more discussions on this site, as there is no petty drama. :D
Serena wrote: "While I understand the horror of zygotes having rights, I think we should all remember aborted fetuses are used for experimentation. The older the fetus, the more helpful to research. Logically I..."That's what makes this so creepy. There's artificial insemination, surrogates are becoming a reality...even at this level of technology, it is possible that a situation could arise where some pregnancies are conceived deliberately for providing fetal tissue samples. And once that's accepted....
i hope it does happen
it would be sooooo cool and adventerouse
it can possibly happen right
wouldnt it be cool
if it happens i mean the adveanture
but can it actually happen in real life???? in the future.... there have been many conflicts about abortion it may turn to war,but they wouldnt unwind kids ...would they????
hello any1 there 2 answer my question??????????
Jaclyn wrote: "I've actually seen this book catagorized as 'pro-life' and I just don't see it. Now, I don't know what Shustermen's feelings on the isssue are, and I don't think the book was written just to advanc..."I haven't seen it categorised as that, but I agree that it wasn't meant to be taken that way, in fact one of the things I loved most about it was the unbiased way that the issue was tackled by Shusterman, that he never comes down on one side or the other, just shows both the sides and allows you to make up your own mind.
Cinderella123 wrote: "it would be sooooo cool and adventerouse"*adventurous
and in response to your other comment:
*adventure not adveanture
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Please discuss. Yes, obviously I'm coming from a pro-choice perspective (and I'm female), but I'm interested in all opinions here.
Specifically, the point the article makes that zygotes are being given more rights than fully mature human beings in many states is the parallel I'm seeing with Unwind--is that not the case in the book?
What do you folks think? :)