Connecting Readers and Writers discussion
Writer's Station
>
What's in a Name? or.. Obsess Much?
date
newest »
newest »
My novel is set in time and place not well represented in English-language literature: 6th century eastern Europe and the Byzantine Empire. So I did a lot of research into real names from the time, which was not easy.On top of that, I had to find names that sounded right for the character and suggested something to the reader.
I agonize over names. I'm over the top; I want to be both unique and cool. I have to love it, and I drive my friends and family crazy asking if they love it, too. I'm obsessive about naming my characters but also animals, cars, whatever. You are not alone in this, Rob. :)
Scrivener has a name generator - you plug in the heritage you want and it throws you up a list.I must admit I obsess about the names.
i don't spend too much time on names. i prefer short names. current project has a male lead who is very in touch with his feminine side, so i called him chris, androgynous name. female lead is a very earthy woman, so i called her ann. simple. i try to avoid last names.
there's often no need for last names unless there's going to be extensive family history. a previous project traced family members from the civil war up to present. that needed last names, especially because the town was named for someone from that family.
there's often no need for last names unless there's going to be extensive family history. a previous project traced family members from the civil war up to present. that needed last names, especially because the town was named for someone from that family.
Haha when I'm starting a new story and the RIGHT names finally pop into my head I giggle and get really into the story...
I've found that names have to blend with the story, then the story makes the names significant. Following this, I've never had to change a name.
there's often no need for last names unless there's going to be extensive family history. a previous project traced family members from the civil war up to present. that needed last names, especially because the town was named for someone from that family. I'm not sure I could do an entire novel without last names. Even in the last, at least someone needed to refer to the MC as "Miss Cavanaugh" since I just can't see a cop saying "Miss Allison". And the current project is a military story so Rank for lower officers, last name for superior officers and then first name for friends. I'm not sure I could get away without knowing that we're following around Ensign Mercy Lyons and Lt. Cordean Morthi.
I fall into the obsessed category, but I love choosing names for my characters and usually take a long time until I find the one that fits like a glove. I look for names everywhere, even movie credits which always seem to have interesting names. I try to never have two names that start with the same letter and I try to think about all the nuanced associations that might hang onto that name (like Biblical associations, old-fashioned, kingly, etc.) If I make up a name for a fantasy character, I try to make it feel unique yet familiar at the same time, if that makes any sense. In my first book, I had a lot of fun naming over a half-dozen cats according to their personality.
One of my pet peeves in fantasy books are names I can't pronounce or hear in my head. I understand why fantasy writers like unearthly-type names, but sometimes they seem to just get in the way of reading instead of adding to the fantasy world, but that's just my opinion.
Rob wrote: "there's often no need for last names unless there's going to be extensive family history. a previous project traced family members from the civil war up to present. that needed last names, especial..."I'm with you, Rob. I find the use of last names to be essential. It's difficult to imagine a story with only first names, especially when the story is involved and there are many characters.
Rahma wrote: "I fall into the obsessed category, but I love choosing names for my characters and usually take a long time until I find the one that fits like a glove. I look for names everywhere, even movie cred..."When names get in the way of reading, regardless of genre, they should be changed, offering an easier flow.
in jerry spinelli's "milkweed" the main character, who tells the story 1st-person, doesn't even know his own name and has no name until another character gives him one.
i think there are details that help the author feel better, more in touch with a character, but the reader might not need the last name as long as the story is compelling.
i recently had two test readers go through my current project start to finish. i only have first names, and the two readers never once asked me what the last names were.
i think there are details that help the author feel better, more in touch with a character, but the reader might not need the last name as long as the story is compelling.
i recently had two test readers go through my current project start to finish. i only have first names, and the two readers never once asked me what the last names were.
Rahma wrote: "I fall into the obsessed category, but I love choosing names for my characters and usually take a long time until I find the one that fits like a glove. I look for names everywhere, even movie cred..."That can happen in sci-fi, too. I agree. I hate it when an important character has a name I can't pronounce.
Richard wrote: "in jerry spinelli's "milkweed" the main character, who tells the story 1st-person, doesn't even know his own name and has no name until another character gives him one. i think there are details..."
To each his own.
I'll see you your "can't pronounce" and raise you a "two different pronunciations make total sense and you and your best friend can't agree on which it is."
Rob wrote: "I'll see you your "can't pronounce" and raise you a "two different pronunciations make total sense and you and your best friend can't agree on which it is.""I'll double the bet and take four new cards.
it's annoying when i see characters with ultra-crafted names. i'm exaggerating, but things start to sound like "wellington summerford" and then i laugh. one of my characters is "john page." i like short, simple names. john also likes to write, keeps a journal. thus "page."
Does anyone pick a name for their MC with the idea of its flexibility? By that, I mean how many variations it offers. Like the name Daniel. A coming of age young boy, who has always been called Danny, now wants to be called Daniel. His parents won't honor his preference (because they don't want him to grow up). Some of this friends do however. Some people go halfway and call him Dan.
It's just another way to give your character extra layers of 'clothing' and ways for other characters in your story to view your MC.
I read a good deal of YA fiction, and I really loathe it when the author gives all the characters highly unusual names, especially in realistic fiction. I don't mind if it's merely the protagonist who has an odd name, as the effect is to make her/him stand out. But when every principal character has a "unique" name, it becomes silly. Yes, at a real school, you're going to find one or two odd names, but you're also going to find lots of kids with whatever names were "in" or popular the year they were born. For example, right now in a junior high, you'll find a good many Kaylas and MacKaylas. Fifteen years ago, it would've been a lot of Tiffanys and Brittanys. A kid named Wynter or Wilden or Anakkin (yes, I've taught all those) will be the unusual one.
Richard wrote: "it's annoying when i see characters with ultra-crafted names. i'm exaggerating, but things start to sound like "wellington summerford" and then i laugh. one of my characters is "john page." i li..."I like your name choice and the reasons you picked it. Page for his last name is aptly subtle; doesn't hit you over the head.
Wellington Summerford, in my mind, would be a snobbish rich kid with no friends. :)
I'm reading 'Great House' where a couple chapters are written from the point of view of a writer who calls her husbands 'R' and 'S'. It's impossible to care about the characters (except to pity them). I don't recommend initials as names!
The book I have out and the one I'm working on are set in a quirky outerspace setting, so for me, naming has become integral to everything. I have to make everything up, from lifeform names to planetary systems to the odd and assorted intergalactic bar. It takes time. I end up using a mix of puns, anagrams, latin twists and words off-the-cuff that just sound like what I want to express.
If I'm on a roll with the first draft, I'll actually just leave a blank for the name because I know I'll spend time thinking about it and it will derail my progress.
An appropriate name helps set the tone.
If I'm on a roll with the first draft, I'll actually just leave a blank for the name because I know I'll spend time thinking about it and it will derail my progress.Oh god yes.
I don't do well with the "leave it blank" mentality, more's the pity. Already my "space elf" race has gone through a dozen names, as have my "race of robot women".
Right now they are Hartishians and Jin respectively. I'm not sure either will last.
Rob wrote: "If I'm on a roll with the first draft, I'll actually just leave a blank for the name because I know I'll spend time thinking about it and it will derail my progress.Oh god yes.
I don't do well w..."
I would prefer to fill the blank in. It takes all my willpower not to. :) But I know me. And it will start an editing spiral from which I will not escape easily. :)
But I definitely know what you're dealing with!
Rahma wrote: I like your name choice and the reasons you picked it. Page for his last name is aptly subtle; doesn't hit you over the head.
Wellington Summerford, in my mind, would be a snobbish rich kid with no friends. :)
..."
yes, but in a story that was funny. i couldn't accept a snobbish rich kid with that name in serious fiction. it would seem too absurdly exaggerated.
Wellington Summerford, in my mind, would be a snobbish rich kid with no friends. :)
..."
yes, but in a story that was funny. i couldn't accept a snobbish rich kid with that name in serious fiction. it would seem too absurdly exaggerated.
i doubt anyone can think of a book that when you finished and put the book down, you paused and thought, "wow, that character was perfectly named."
once the story gets going and takes my interest, names are far less relevant - to me.
once the story gets going and takes my interest, names are far less relevant - to me.
Richard wrote: "i doubt anyone can think of a book that when you finished and put the book down, you paused and thought, "wow, that character was perfectly named."once the story gets going and takes my interest,..."
I agree, Richard. Too much fuss is being made over names. The story is what counts. If the story's compelling, the names, unless outlandish, go along with the ride. If the story's lousy, the names won't save it, no matter how cleverly concocted.
I find that I use names that I would use if I were to ever have kids. I also picked names that were a common factor in all of my other works (no others have been published). As far as on last names I usually do that because I think it made the character more...I guess real or relatable or something? The last names are just the first thing that pops into my head. First names takes slight obsession.
names for me seem to be needed more by the author than the reader. if the author needs those names to help "see" that character, then the obsession is all good and necessary.
Are they though?Like take me....
When I hear "Robbie" I know it's someone who's a family member over the age of 60. No one else calls me that.
When I was in college, only the people I worked with at a "pay for college" job called me Robert.
When someone calls the house for "Bob" I usually hang up on them. OR say that he cant' take their call on account of being room temperature.
Now I suppose for realistic fiction the names are less meaningful because unless it's a plot point, Tom is as good as Richard which is as good as a Harrison. On the other hand, there's a fellow name of James Gatz who believes that a name is quite an important thing.
Where I think it really sticks out is in the realm of Fantasy/ Sci Fi where authors have a lot more room to be unique with names and really run the risk of concocting names that put off readers. I don't think it's the ~desire~ to have a reader go "wow, what a neat name" as it's the ~fear~ that a reader will go "Wow.. that name's so lame." and then put the book down.
if a reader puts a book down because of a name without giving the story a chance, they might not be much of a reader. they might be looking for an excuse to put the book down.
This discussion has me thinking of Dickens. Call someone an Ebeneezer Scrooge and we all know a type we're talking about. The name has taken on its own life in our society. I suspect it would not be quite the same if Dickens had just decided to make the character a John Smith or a Dougie Brown.
Names can have tone.
Jenn wrote: "This discussion has me thinking of Dickens. Call someone an Ebeneezer Scrooge and we all know a type we're talking about. The name has taken on its own life in our society. I suspect it would not..."
Great point on Ebeneezer Scrooge, Jenn. Names can have tone as long as the story also has tone.
Gerald wrote: "Names can have tone as long as the story also has tone. "Oh, absolutely! I don't think anyone was suggesting that appropriate names superseded the need for a strong story-- just that in the right type of tale, they could add to it.
the only problem with ebeneezer scrooge is that the character was so extreme (in a good way for literature) that it's impossible to separate each. for example, if that character were named "holden caufield," would we call people "caufield" when they behave like scrooge did? impossible to say.
copied from wikipedia:
In his diaries, Dickens states that Scrooge stems from a grave marker which he saw in 1841, while taking an evening walk in the Canongate Kirkyard in Edinburgh. The headstone was for the vintner Ebenezer Lennox Scroggie, a relative of Adam Smith, who had won the catering contract for the visit of George IV to Edinburgh and the first contract to supply whisky to the Royal Navy. The marker identified Scroggie as a "meal man" (corn merchant), but Dickens misread this as "mean man", due to the fading light and his mild dyslexia. Dickens wrote that it must have "shrivelled" Scroggie’s soul to carry "such a terrible thing to eternity".
copied from wikipedia:
In his diaries, Dickens states that Scrooge stems from a grave marker which he saw in 1841, while taking an evening walk in the Canongate Kirkyard in Edinburgh. The headstone was for the vintner Ebenezer Lennox Scroggie, a relative of Adam Smith, who had won the catering contract for the visit of George IV to Edinburgh and the first contract to supply whisky to the Royal Navy. The marker identified Scroggie as a "meal man" (corn merchant), but Dickens misread this as "mean man", due to the fading light and his mild dyslexia. Dickens wrote that it must have "shrivelled" Scroggie’s soul to carry "such a terrible thing to eternity".
Holden Caufield, for example, though has a softer sound to it. With the double e's and o there's something vaguely... squeaky... sounding about Scrooge's name, like an old creaky door.Love the story about Dickens' misreading the grave marker of Mr. Scroggie. :)
and holden imagined himself as being helpful. "hold" lends to that. and "cau" sounding like "caution."
of course, it's easy for us to look at that after the fact. could be salinger did something similar to dickens. ;)
of course, it's easy for us to look at that after the fact. could be salinger did something similar to dickens. ;)
What about Jack the Ripper? What can we "dig up" on him? A name not exactly revered by men called Jack, or women for that matter.And Edgar Allan Poe. Though sounding distinguished and dignified, his name doesn't usher in those sentiments.
He shuddered with Poe dread?
So far my main character has had three changes of name, from Impatha Kia to Ippa Kiatta to Mercy Lyons. I'm thinking I may keep Mercy as it works with the world I'm building but I'm still not sure if when you pick up the back of the book you still want to read it.
I'm reminded of the days on Live Journal when we'd scan the Fan Fic sites for the best and the worst and among the worst it was character naming that was among the first things to be mocked.
And mocked with vengeance.
And sometimes salt.