Middle East/North African Lit discussion
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My Name Is Red
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My Name is Red (March/April)
message 51:
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Constance
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rated it 3 stars
Apr 25, 2012 09:00AM
Something that I forgot to bring up, but found interesting is the source of red paint. According to the above website, red lead or lead tetroxide was the favorite red paint of Persian miniature painters. Exposure to lead causes lead poisoning, which among other symptoms can cause aggression and blindness.
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Constance, thank you for all of this great information!! Are you a painter??There's a book called A Perfect Red: Empire, Espionage, and the Quest for the Color of Desire by Amy Greenfield. When Border's book stores were going out of business, they were selling the last of their books for $1.00 each. There was a store a few blocks away from where I live (in NYC) so I went to see if I could grab some good books for $1.00.
As it turned out, I found around twelve (maybe more) GREAT books, in perfect condition, which I decided to buy. One of them was A Perfect Red. I haven't been able to sit down and read it from beginning to end yet, because my "to read" list is enormous, but I think when I'm finished with My Name is Red I may really want to read A Perfect Red.
Have you heard of this book, or read it?? It's nonfiction, and it's all about the significance and importance of finding that "perfect red" for painting.
Last night, although I got home very late, I read all of Chapter 26 -- "I, Shekure" and the beginning of Chapter 27 -- "I am Called Black." I'm not going to give away any spoilers here. I just want to say that these two chapters are FANTASTIC, and I do want to share some thoughts on these chapters. (But, again, I've been swamped with work -- it's already after 10pm, and I still have more work to finish up.)I really WILL post my thoughts (and I MUST post some thoughts on these chapters) hopefully within the next few days, or over the weekend, and I'll put my thoughts in a spoiler.
The one thing I do want to say is that the very beginning of Chapter 27, in my opinion, is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS. I don't know if anyone will find it as funny as I did, and for all I know maybe Pamuk didn't even MEAN for it to be funny (but I can't imagine that he himself was not laughing when he wrote this.)
Has anyone here finished the book or read these two chapters yet?? If so, please let me know if you found the humor in Chapter 27 (but keep in mind, I've only read maybe the first six or seven pages of this chapter -- it's the VERY BEGINNING of the chapter that I thought was so brilliantly written, and reading it made me love Orhan Pamuk even more!!!
Mod
I just finished Chapter 33 last night. I'm still REALLY enjoying this book. I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many people did NOT like this book at all. Many people said they just couldn't get interested in it, and tried picking it up and reading a few times but it just didn't hold their attention.
As I've mentioned in previous posts, this is my first Orhan Pamuk book, so I'm wondering if people who are more familiar with his work just had higher expectations?? Could it be that his other books are SO AMAZING that this book seems boring in comparison?
I'm quite sure that one of the things I love about this novel is that there is so much about art in here, but it's possible that there are many people who find the "art" parts of the novel boring. Although I love art, I'm guessing that not everyone would find so much detail on art as interesting as I do.
I don't know if I would enjoy the story as much if there wasn't so much art in it.
What do the rest of you think???
Mod
I hope you will be able to join this discussion at some point .
Constance wrote: "I am interested in the symbolism of colors in the novel. White and black represent both being and nothingness (life and death), although differently in different cultures. Red represents blood, pa..."
I think talking about the color Red may bring more and more interests.
I haven't finish the novel yet, away from the facts about Red paint you mentioned in your two posts ....I remember the killer said (speaking to us the readers) try to know me from my color ? he had some obssesion with Red when he talked about "Husrev and Shirin" and the blood , he said the victom liked to paint in blue ? he also sees "black" the protagonist ( some how) as non significant and has no talent ?
Barbra,
Thanks for the link , and for the compliment ! and BTW , I haven't practiced my profession almost for 5 years :( , Good luck in painting , who knows ;)
For my review of "Snow" , it has no spoilers (as I see it ) .for Salman Rushdie I only read " The Enchantress Of Florence" and "Midnight's children " is already on my reading list .
I didn't hear about "Perfect Red" but it seems interesting .
I reached chapter (24)and I like it so far , so I will tell you my reaction when I read the parts you are talking about , but from my experience , Pamuk is very sarcastic :)
Wow , you really like the book !
****
Is Okyrhoe , the only one who finished the novel ?
Barbara wrote: "I just finished Chapter 33 last night. I'm still REALLY enjoying this book. I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many people did NOT like this book at a..."
I agree. I felt that the story progressed 'slowly,' perhaps to parallel the way a miniaturist might paint, taking his time to focus on meticulous detail. Maybe for some this kind of pace is too slow to keep them interested and engaged?
There is a passage at the end of the novel (between the 2 lovers) that somewhat confused me and on which I'd like to hear others' opinions, so I shall wait until then to bring it up.
Mod
I found the philosophical conversation between "Enshte Effendi" and the murderer in chapter (28) to be very interesting and such discussion
Natacha wrote: "There is a passage at the end of the novel (between the 2 lovers) that somewhat confused me and on which I'd like to hear others' opinions, so I shall wait until then to bring it up..."
I didn't reach this far but I already find their meeting in chapter (26& 27) already strange.
* Speaking of the slow rhyme , did you read any other books for Pamuk ?
I had to return my copy of My Name is Red to the library. I will be reading other books, trying to keep up with you in other threads. I LIKED My Name is Red, just had too many books to read at once. Its on my list of 'to buy' books.
ND, I've read Snow and somehow, when you say something about rhyming, I seem to remember something in the gymnasium or meeting hall and rhymes. I don't have it in front of me though.
ND, I've read Snow and somehow, when you say something about rhyming, I seem to remember something in the gymnasium or meeting hall and rhymes. I don't have it in front of me though.
A glossary of terms I compiled for My Name Is Red (since the English edition doesn't have one). Book of Kings
Ottoman Imperial circumcision/wedding festival books and Surname-i-Vehbi - 11
konak
Enishte = Enişte (Turkish spelling) = brother-in-law (also aunt's husband)
giaour - 42
janissary = Yeni çeri = new soldiers - 49
Effendi
Hoja - 4
Nasreddin Hodja
masnavi - 41
dervishes - specifically the Kalenderi (Qalandari). From various historical sources : "notoriously inclined to defy all conventions of dress, grooming, and polite behavior" "opium-addicted madmen"
- In relation to My Name is Red this summary about dervish literature hints at some insight into Pamuk's style and themes, eg. the use of pen names, riddles, etc. Also scroll down to Chapter 3 "The Metaphors of the Poets" of (Dervish) Mysticism and Magic in Turkey. Another connection to the murder theme in the novel is the death of the Kalandari dervish Shams Tabrizi
Natacha wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I just finished Chapter 33 last night. I'm still REALLY enjoying this book. I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many people did NOT lik..."
Hi Natacha,
I am juggling My Name is Red with two other books now, so it's taking me FOREVER to read it. (If I wasn't working crazy hours AND trying to juggle a few books AND, to top it all off I've been dealing with some headache issues, I would be done with My Name is Red by now because I really like it.)
I just wanted to let you know that hopefully within the next week or so I'll be finished with it, and through spoilers we can discuss the entire book.
BUT, as far as your comment in Message 57 in this thread regarding the two lovers at the end, even though I haven't read it I can share this with you (without spoiling anything for anyone else.) On the "My Name is Red" fan page on Facebook, I saw something mentioned about the end of the book (it was a similar comment to yours), and the explanation is that Orhan Pamuk used "Metafiction" at the end of this book. If you're on Facebook, type My Name is Red into your search and you will see what I'm talking about.
If you are not on Facebook, let me know and I will see if I can copy and paste it to a post here.
I "sort of" know what metafiction is, but I'm REALLY looking forward to finishing this book so that I can really understand the meaning of it.
I hope this makes the ending a bit more clear for you!!!
okyrhoe wrote: "A glossary of terms I compiled for My Name Is Red (since the English edition doesn't have one). Book of Kings
Ottoman Imperial circumcision/wedding festival books and Surname-i-Vehbi - 11
kona..."
Hi Okyrhoe,
Thank you!!! This glossary is FANTASTIC!!!
Have you finished the book yet?? I still have around 150 pages to go (I think. I'm reading it on my Nook, and the page numbers on the Nook don't match up with the page numbers in the paperback editions!!!)
I'm really looking forward to a great discussion with you and the rest of the group here on My Name is Red. I really am finding it fascinating, and the information that you have shared is SO helpful!!!
Mod
I haven't read very far but I am liking it so far and with all your help in this wonderful discussion thread, I WILL finish it this time (this is take two for me).
Marieke wrote: "Your humble moderator and discussion "leader" only just now began the book. :/I haven't read very far but I am liking it so far and with all your help in this wonderful discussion thread, I WILL ..."
I'm glad to know this...now I don't feel so bad with having read so little.
Only slightly off topic, but still on Pamuk: http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospe....I took my copy of My Name Is Red back to the Library a while ago. I'll fetch it again when I sense I won't be at risk of spoiling the read for others as the discussion gets under way.
I'm just starting Chapter 42, so I'm not "too" far from the end!! (I think there are 59 chapters.)I have a deadline for work this Wednesday, so I probably will not be posting anything here before Wednesday evening.
Marieke -- I'm so glad your reading My Name is Red with the group! Did you not like it the first time around?? Are you reading it on your Nook?? I'm reading it on my Nook.
Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I just finished Chapter 33 last night. I'm still REALLY enjoying this book. I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many pe..."
Hi there,
I just now saw your reply. Thanks for that; I will look into it. It's not so much that the entire ending confuses me, but more so that I may not understand the relevance of a certain scene. In any case I'll check it out and thanks again! :)
Mod
For those who finished the novel , please share your thoughts openly , you can use "spoiler alert" if you like , this will encourage us all .
Kate wrote: "ND, I've read Snow and somehow, when you say something about rhyming, I seem to remember something in the gymnasium or meeting hall and rhymes. I don't have it in front of me though. ..."
The novel events took place in only three days , yes …it was slow !
Mod
I decided my paperback is working fine for me, so I didn't get it on the nook after all. I didn't want to pay for a second copy and I can't figure out how to get OverDrive to work on my Mac, and that is the system my public library uses. :(
Now that I'm getting into it, I want to say that Constance's comment about the red paint is very interesting!
Merhaba to all, I read My Name is Red years ago and it has been fun to revisit this novel through all of these posts. Thanks to those of you who provided links with related material. I found the one about Sufis and coffee quite fascinating. If you would like to view art work of a contemporary Iranian artist living in Salt Lake City, who studied Persian miniature painting, visit: http://www.amirifinearts.com/persian-...
For cultural information on Istanbul and Orhan Pamuk's new Museum of Innocence, stop by my blog: www.writingandwandering.com
All the best,
Meghan Nuttall Sayres
Mod
The conversation before the second murder was interesting , and had so much cruel point of view about miniaturists . I quote this : " Painting people , not as they are perceived by the mind , but as they are actually seen by the naked eye ...when "painting" is mentioned , the world will think of their work "
Nile Daughter, it looks as though you and I are here at the same time (your message says that you just posted 7 minutes ago!!) Well, I'm in New York, at it's past 3:00 in the morning!! I've been on a very late schedule, but I'm just going to finish this post and then try to get some sleep for the night!!I haven't been able to get very far since my last post here. I'm around halfway through Chapter 46, "I Will Be Called A Murderer."
I started reading another book while I was reading My Name is Red which is never a good thing for me. It seems that many of you here can juggle numerous books at once, and I used to be able to do it as well, but over the past few years I've found that I can't really focus on one book if I'm trying to read another at the same time.
But the problem is that there are SO MANY great books out there to read, so I do sometimes tend to start another book while I'm already reading one that I enjoy!!!
I'm going to put some thoughts into a spoiler, because some of you have already finished the book, and some are not up to the part that I'd like to discuss, so please keep in mind that this spoiler is AS OF CHAPTER 46....
(view spoiler)
Those were just some random thoughts. I have more that I'd like to write, but it's LATE here, so I'm going to get some sleep and maybe come back in a few days. I'd like to come back and take my time reading some of the previous comments in this thread.
Dear All, I am new in Goodreads and My name is red was the first book I read with a group, I didn't post any comment but reading your impressions about the book was really amazing experience I really injoied it, so I just wanted to thank you all for that.I liked the novel a lot, even though i dont like mystery novels usually, but i enjoyed this one, mainly because of it's detailed and well researched subject done by the writer, the wealth of information about the Miniatures as art and even full industry in its peak in the Ottoman Empire. The use of names and collors had its own dimensions in this novel, the way he addresses different character as of "I am ....", if I didn't like something it will be the chapter 54 "I am a women" I didn't understand the massage he tried to send through that part, do all women fil in one category or he is giving example of one women how think she know about other women! I am still thinking about that chapter.
Mod
A question for anyone who is fluent in Arabic:I noticed that the wikipedia entry for hoja (see post #60 above) equates the Ottoman "hodja" with the Arabic "khawaja".
I was under the impression that the Arabic "khawaja" meant a learned *foreign* man, or an Arab man who received a foreign (Western) education.
I regret that the link is not a good choice; the wikipedia entry doesn't corresspond to the Ottoman "hoja" I understand, in the sense of a learned or wise man, or a teacher or mentor.
In my (subjective) understanding of the novel, "hoja" brings to mind Hoja with a capital H - Hodja the folktale hero whose stories were probably one of many recited in the coffeehouse that figures in the novel.
On a metafictional level, Pamuk modernized the tradition of Hoja storytelling, for example, when he has each of the three artists reply to Black's interrogation with three stories each (see Terry's post #20). And of course the last chapter of the book...
Am I reading too much into the "hoja" as a metaphor for the storytelling theme?
The tales of Hoja were recited to me by my mother, who in turn got them from her own parents, both of them refugees from the-then Constantinople). I am assuming most Turkish readers of the novel recognize the narrative format, as well as the humorous/ironic implications.
The Hoja stories are slightly different from Aesop's fables, and from European fairy tales. In a way they resemble zen koans...They may also contain a riddle that is not fully answered, or which is a logical conundrum. My mother would tell us Hoja stories to put us to bed; sometimes though there was something about the story I could not figure out, and it would keep me awake instead of helping me fall sleep!
Many of the chapters of My Name is Red can be taken out of the narrative whole and read individually - several times over - to be understood better. And from all our comments here, I see they are also a challenge to be read and understood, as with the Hoja stories of my childhood!
Okyrhoe, Hojjatoleslam in the Shiite doctrine is given to those who began classes in the high level of their religious studies, and Hojjah is used in general as the person who have strong arguable point of view, mostly used in religion contest.Khawajah I believe is completely different thing.
Okyrhoe, A friend of mine corrected my information that I just added, and that you maybe referring to Juha story, to compare the anecdote that found in the Arabic and Turkish folklore,At that time, it was clear that the joke may have been affected Turkish Sufi teachings, Sufi poet Rumi had the name of the fraudster Anatolian "Nasreddin Khoja", and the famous of these were circulated at a later period in Egypt under the name of Nasreddin Khoja known as (Juha Anatolian), in Arabic folklore was known by th e name "Nasreddin Juha" many stories of Juha was mentioned in Arabic literature as far as the seventh century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasreddin
you can read more about it in this link.
Mod
There are many studies that refer the character to Kalilah wa Dimnah and different folklur stories coming from Kurdish, Persion and Indian traditions, and other refer it to a character known in different periods of the Islamic culture, in Ibn Nadem books Index written in the year 978 mentioned Juha's Stories which was known by itself as a book.
Mod
Okyrhoe,
Away from the Shiite tradition , Yes in Arabic we use "Khoja" as a teacherin general , and "khawaja" means foreigner .
I need to think more about point about storytelling , I will think about it ,just to make sure , is it Hoja or Juha as Najla mentioned ?
Najla,
Welcome on board :) Thanks for your posts about "Juha" , my populist character in my childhood .
Mod
Yes, Juha is a storybook character (Hoja Nasreddin in Turkish, Mulla Nasreddin in Persian, Giufa in Italian, etc. - His stories are told from the Atlantic (the western Mediterranean region) to western China. I've done research on him, so feel free to write for more info :)
Khawaja is 'foreigner,' and is not related to Juha. As far as I know, Juha is not directly related to Kalila wa-Dimna (I've never seen anyone try to prove any link).
Here are some of my thoughts on the book [SPOILER ALERT]:
After years of wanting to read this book, I have finally finished it, and it was just as compelling as I had expected. It features delightful descriptions of Istanbul and a colorful set of characters that show the city’s social diversity. The main characters have very believable personalities, and I also found most of them to be quite likable.
This book is the best example, to my knowledge, of using multiple perspectives to tell a story. Some of these perspectives are: a dog, a tree, the color red, an unnamed woman, and a gold coin. This technique is not used simply for its own sake. It actually enhances the experience of following the narrative, switching perspectives just when we are wondering what another character is thinking or when we need a change from a rather heavy discourse.
The opening is very memorable, speaking in the voice of a corpse. It sets up the mystery that will prompt investigations throughout the book. I found the mystery quite suspenseful, an important technique for Pamuk, whose writing tends to be very slow and patient. This is a book that demands a reader’s time, and will reward a reader by giving as much as the reader puts into it.
Pamuk weaves in many references to art and stories (especially Husrev and Shirin and popular tales from the Shahnameh), with a very detailed exploration of a particular workshop of book arts. I think this book is certainly inspired in part by the Arabian Nights (or 1001 Nights) because it contains so many stories within stories.
Pamuk’s writing draws on courtly painting traditions and folk storytelling traditions (from the religious to the secular), offering a nice view of literary arts in this historical context, including a range of social classes. Of course, the book focuses more on characters from the lower classes, with only brief glimpses of the palace. We get a sense of the social hierarchy that maintained the Ottoman Empire.
This book provides a multi-faceted view of artistic techniques in 16th century Istanbul, with traditions of Islam, folk epics, and the Italian renaissance coming together. In chapter 5, Enishte (the elderly uncle) reminisces over the portraits he has seen of Venetian gentlemen, and how human they appear, despite their very foreign culture. Many characters in the book can see the appeal in having one’s own portrait painted. The idea is both audacious and delightful.
As a fan of fantasy fiction, I love it when authors give flight to their imaginations (such as Arundhati Roy, Marquez, Bulgakov). Pamuk is not known for magical realism, but there are glimmers of it:
“Next, as the ice had melted, a street fountain hissed into my ear: ‘Don’t take matters too seriously, see to your own affairs and your own happiness.’ ‘That’s all fine and good,’ objected an ill-omened black cat licking himself on the corner, ‘but everybody, yourself included, suspects you had a hand in your uncle’s murder.’
The cat left off licking himself as I suddenly caught sight of its bewitching eyes. I don’t have to tell you how brazen these Istanbul cats get when the locals spoil them.” - p. 194
Someone in this group thought that Pamuk was writing about himself when he wrote about Orhan the character. It seems to me that both Orhan and “a woman” are at least partially autobiographical characters.
I also think that the translation is highly impressive, with beautifully crafted phrases that provide many insights into life and art. For example:
“On my second visit after twelve years, she didn’t show herself. She did succeed, however, in so magically endowing me with her presence that I was certain of being, somehow, continually under her watch, while she sized me up as a future husband, amusing herself all the while as if playing a game of logic. Knowing this, I also imagined I was continually able to see her. Thus was I better able to understand Ibn Arabi’s notion that love is the ability to make the invisible visible and the desire always to feel the invisible in one’s midst.” - p. 115
The only fault I can think of is that there is a lot of guilt in this book, and there is not a lot of healing. It is a book of beauty, jealousy, intrigue, and coping. The human condition. A vibrant city. Neither too optimistic nor too cynical. This is a tale of the power of art (not directly a tale of the power of love, which is a more common narrative, and yet I think that some kind of love is what opens people’s eyes--even inner eyes--to beauty, thus allowing the creation and appreciation of art). There is more of a focus on the mother-child relationship (in this case, mother-son) than on any relationship between adults. Black and Shekure never reach a really close friendship (that we see).
I was pleased that the tale ended with Shekure’s perspective. Her character was perhaps the most relatable, even for a male reader. (If I knew one, I’d ask him, and if he agreed, then I’d ask him if he thought that Pamuk’s experiment as “a woman” in the chapter by that name might have allowed him to write so effectively as Shekure). Pamuk takes on so many roles in this book that he is something of a philosopher and something of an actor.
Wow. I just read Melanie's post. This was the sort of insight I hoped to gain by joining the group. I've already expressed how much I liked the novel, but the recent discussion about hoja raised the novel a few notches higher in my opinion. I suspected that Pamuk was using story-telling techniques and motifs that are a part and parcel of Istanbul and its surroundings in both time and place. Now I have confirmation.
Melanie, thanks for a wonderful summary. I only read a bit since I haven't read much of the book yet but I intend to return to it and the rest of the thread when I am able to really devote the necessary time to this book.
Mod
Melanie, that was a beautiful post , thanks !
I am STILL reading this book!!! (But, as I've said in previous posts, it's not taking me a long time because I don't like it. I actually do like it, but I've had many other distractions while reading this, so it's taking me longer than it usually would.)Although I've really been enjoying this novel, I'm currently on Chapter 51 "It is I, Master Osman" and I have to say that this is definitely (so far) the most BORING chapter so far. It is just DRAGGING and I have no idea where on earth it's going.
Did anyone else feel this way about this particular chapter???
Mod
I am STILL reading this book as well , I didn't finish reading any book last year . I think I may read "It is I, Master Osman" tonight .
I remember you mentioned that chapter 33 was funny , I loved the way how he tried to describe how would miniaturists represent it .
Mod
Hopefully this weekend I will be able to look back at this thread and chime in with my thoughts and reactions to some of the points and questions that have been raised. :)
Oh I wish I could read this now and talk with you all about it, but when I do read it at least I can come back here for this great discussion.
Mod
Mod
Not sure if I'll be able or not but I just checked and my library system has it.
Natacha wrote: I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many people did NOT lik..."
Hi Natacha,
I finally finished My Name is Red last night. When I read the final chapter I was wondering which passage between the two lovers you found confusing?? I'm very curious. I don't know think everyone here has finished the book, so maybe you could post it into a spoiler??
Thanks!!!!
I FINALLY finished My Name is Red. I really enjoyed it a lot. I want to post some thoughts here, which I will post in a spoiler because I know there are some people in this thread who are still reading it.I'm looking forward to reading Orhan Pamuk's other novels. Does anyone recommend which of his novels I should read next?? I think many of you have read Snow so maybe that will be my next Pamuk novel.
Over the past few months I've read Anna Karenina, The Age of Innocence, My Name is Red, The Waste Land, and Howl and Other Poems. These were all great books (well, The Waste Land and Howl are poems, so they didn't take as long to read), and none of them were difficult to read, but Anna Karenina was long and My Name is Red took me a LONG time to read.
SO, I'm in the process of deciding what to read now. Some of the books this group is currently reading look great, but I think I want my next book to take place in
Europe (but not Russia, after spending so much time with Anna Karenina!!) I just need something light for a little while because I'm stressed out over work and various other things. Any recommendations would be appreciated!!!
I will be back to post my thoughts on My Name is Red, but for now I can't think straight due to these horrible headaches I keep getting (AND I'm working on a deadline for work, so that doesn't help.)
One thing I will say is that reading My Name is Red REALLY inspired me to get back to painting. I love the way there was so much discussion on painting and on method, technique, color, style, etc. Although, there were a few times when the subject of the Old Masters just seemed to go on MUCH longer than necessary.
Also, I would LOVE to read some of the fables that were discussed in the book, but I don't know if I'll be able to get a translation of Husrev and Shirin or Leyla and Majnun or The Book of Kings on my Nook!!! (I haven't looked for them yet, but I will, and it would be GREAT to read these fables with this group!!!)
Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: I was looking at some of the reviews of My Name is Red and I'm surprised at how many people did NOT lik..."
Hi Natacha,
I finally finished My Name is Red last night. When I read ..."
Hi there,
Nice that you finished and enjoyed it! I'd love to see your interpretation on a certain passage. The complete book thread is here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...
so I'll head over there and post there if you want to check it out? :)
Mod
Hmmm...recs for your next book...considering Europe but not Russia. Are you wanting something classic or contemporary? Short or long?
Oh--I'm really thankful for this thread because I'm not sure I would have picked this book up again or enjoyed it as much as I did. :)
Marieke wrote: "Barbara...I haven't checked Nook for the newest translation of Book of Kings, but I did want to make sure you know it's not really fables. It's more like an epic, I think...like Gilgamesh or the Od..."Hi Marieke, I don't think the Nook has Book of Kings. (I wasn't able to find it, but maybe I need to look under the author's name.) So it's an epic?? I would LOVE to read it, if that's the case. Are the stories of "Husrev and Shirin" and "Leyla and Majnun" included in it? In My Name is Red they were described as poems. I haven't read The Kite Runner -- I should put that into my "to read" list.
I would love to read Birds Without Wings with this group, but I think I need to read something else between My Name is Red and Birds Without Wings, because as much as I LOVE novels that take place in Turkey, Birds Without Wings will be my fourth novel based in Turkey over the past year or so. In addition to My Name is Red I've read The Bastard of Istanbul and The Oracle of Stamboul within the past year. (I read The Bastard of Istanbul with this group.)
I'm thinking of The Paris Wife which is based on Hemingway and his wife. OR, I may put my Nook down for a few weeks and read some books from my shelf of "real" books!!!! I've become so used to the Nook, but I do have some good books on my "real" shelf that I haven't gotten to yet -- The Appointment, which according to reviews might be too depressing for me, or The Poisonwood Bible(which got many good reviews, but it also got many poor reviews).
BUT, Birds Without Wings really does look great, so I'll probably be back here soon to read that (even if I don't get to it until most of the group is done with it.)
So, your second or third time around you really liked My Name is Red?? I'm so glad!! It definitely got a lot of mixed reviews, but I really enjoyed it. There are so many interesting posts in this thread. As soon as things slow down a bit (maybe over the weekend) I want to go back through the posts here.
In message 87 in this thread you said that you finished the novel but couldn't think of anything intelligent to say. LOL -- I feel that way EVERY time I finish a book, unless the ending is so astonishing (in which case I would just post "What on earth happened at the end of this book???") But I felt that Orhan Pamuk did a great job of bringing everything together, and the ending was very well done (in my opinion.)
You also wrote that reading My Name is Red inspired you to read Istanbul: Memories and the City, and I would really like to read it as well.
Natacha wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: Hi Natacha,
I'm so curious about which passage you're referring to. I went to the link you posted, but I didn't see a message from you there. I'll go back to the link again tomorrow to see if you've posted something.
Thanks!!!
Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: Hi Natacha,
I'm so curious about which passage you're referring to. I went to the link you posted, but I didn't see a message from you there. I'll ..."
Hi Barbara,
I went over and posted my comment. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on it! :)
I'm sorry I haven't been able to keep up with this reading right now but I plan to read the book and I am really looking forward to coming back to all these notes. I only wish I could share with you now. Glad so many have enjoyed the book.
Natacha wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Natacha wrote: Hi Natacha,
Your post is VERY interesting and your curiosity about the passage between the two lovers is definitely understandable. There are SO MANY different ways to interpret the events in the final chapter.
I'm sorry for the delay in responding, but I've just been having some trouble focusing over the past few weeks. I'm just overwhelmed with work and dealing with some health issues.
BUT, there are SO MANY THINGS that I want to write in response to the link in Message 94 in this thread. I just need to organize my thoughts, and I will definitely respond soon. I didn't want you to think I had forgotten about you. Actually, your points in the post make a lot of sense and you really gave me a lot to think about (things that did not occur to me when I read that chapter the first time.) Since your post, I've read the chapter two more times, and I think I'm pretty clear as to the meaning behind the actions/events that happen.
BUT.... I will come back when I can think a bit more clearly and I'll put my response into a spoiler, since it's about the final chapter and I believe there are still some people in the group who have not finished the novel.
Middle East/North African Lit
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