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Dragonfly in Amber (Outlander, #2)
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message 1: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Welcome to our March & April group reread of the second book in the Outlander series!

Starting this Sunday, and ever Sunday after, I or Leea will be adding discussion topics. These will not be spoilers, just thoughts or questions to spark our interest and keep the conversation going. If you have any idea's for questions, please PM those to me, or to Leea and we will add them.

Thanks, and happy discussion!


Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments Yay! Let's get this party started!


Peggyzbooksnmusic Wendy & Leea...Thanks! :D


Tina | 162 comments I have been listening to DIA..about half way through..can't wait to start talking about it!!


message 5: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments What luck! This series was recently recommended to me by my sisters coworker. I just finished book one and now my sister is reading it. I thought it was awesome!! I just started book 2, and it looks like I'm right on schedule with this group :) when I finish it my sister will read it next. Hopefully we can keep up with the pace of this group with the two of us. I must say that I am a little worried that so much time has passed since the first book. (I am not even done with chapter one of book two) but there is all of the unanswered questions that I want to know!!! Lol (but please don't tell me, I like to be surprised) I just hope Jaime gets in here somewhere, they are so awesome together. Has she really not seen him in 20 years?! How terrible!!!! Anyway, hello and I'm excited to be a new member. This is the first thing like this I have ever done. :)


message 6: by Lotte (new)

Lotte | 330 comments Hello and welcome to this group, Alasa! Yes your are on time for the reread of book 2. Hurry up with your reading that you might not be cought by spoilers. As the title suggests all/most of the others yet have read the books of this series (many, many times). Though in most cases spoilers are marked, ...

I just can tell you that you are in good company when beginning DIA and wondering: Inverness = OK, but 1968?! And who is this ROGER and where did they leave J A M I E ? There is just one answer: Go on reading and enjoy it!


message 7: by Carren (new)

Carren Kay | 953 comments When I picked up DIA, I started to read it and thought, did I miss a book? Went back to the bookstore, checked the shelves and nope, I didn't. I was a little confused at first, but after a few pages, figured it out.
Have to say this was one of my favorites of the series.


message 8: by Lotte (new)

Lotte | 330 comments For me DIA actually split in 2 parts, as indeed it does: I was not only suprised to find the beginning taking place in 1968, after we had left Claire and Jamie in France of 1744, but to find the story not being told by Claire - in contrast to the first book. I preferred the story of 1968 to the one in 1744-1746 set in France. Of course I missed all the "old" Scots - and most of all Jamie - and I liked the Highland scenes. The parting of Jamie and Claire at he eve of Culloden is one of the most heart wrenching ones of the complete series. The first time I read it I thought: what could come next? Then, however, Roger's and Geillis' identities are discovered.

In later books we will find out that (view spoiler)


message 9: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Definitely be careful of spoilers, Alasa. We mark spoilers for the following books, but usually speak freely about the current book, as it's rereads for us.

Welcome to the group, and to the amazingness of Outlander!


Katie (goodreadscomkathrynlily) | 18 comments Fantastic!!! That DiA is my favorite of the series! :)


message 11: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments I remember being completely frustrated picking up DiA and staring in 1968. I had the same feeling most of you did: HUH? Who the heck is Brianna? (Quickly figured out from her physical description.) And why does Claire want to know about the men at Culloden? And WHEN will we get back to Jamie?

Luckily, it doesn't take too long to be back in 1744!

But I have to admit after I got over my initial "where's Jamie?" bit, I found myself really liking Roger. While Jamie will always be "the man" for me, Roger is a close second.

So much packed into this book. There's a lot in Outlander, too, but starting with DiA, I felt almost overwhelmed at times by all the story and details.


message 12: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments Carren, I thought the same thing. I thought I must have gotten the wrong order. I checked with the book store clerk, the inside pages of the book had a listing of the order too, but I still was unconvinced. So I googled it. And what good luck, i came upon this website!! It's great! I've already rated a lot of books and gotten some great suggestions. I will finish the book as quickly as I can, I don't want to read any spoilers in here. Until next time!!


message 13: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments You guys are so awesome. Something about the shock of the beginning was going to be part of my first question! You guys beat me to the punch...


message 14: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments Wendy, there's still lots of material in the beginning, though... being introduced to Brianna, the graves at St. Kilda, and Claire's mysterious behavior. Then Roger, of course.

For someone who's supposed to have a glass face, Claire seemed to be able to hide a lot in that beginning segment. Or did she?


message 15: by Alasa (last edited Mar 02, 2012 10:16AM) (new)

Alasa | 13 comments My sister and I have Scottish heritage and last spring break, after a saving up for a bit, we planned our trip and went!! It was amazing!! And to read about locations we've been is really awesome! And when jamie's real last name was revealed we were both really excited, that is the clan our ancestors are from. We are very much enjoying these stories!!!


message 16: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments Wow, Alasa - how very cool! I'd love to go to Scotland. Hoping that some day, I will.


message 17: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Oh, I don't mind at all. I love that you guys dived right in. I can definitely think of some other great things to talk about.


message 18: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments Just like to make a note, I hate that Jamie's daughters last name is Randall!!!! How terrible!! I hope Jamie never finds out. I understand why she did it, but still, any other last name in the world would have been prefferable. I just made it to when it goes to 1744. And Jamie is in it!! Though he must not have died at culloden when she thought, and has therefor spent 20 years away from him!! But time travel is a tricky thing. Hopefully she can make it back before much more time has passed. Does the author ever get back to that ghost from the first book, most likely Jamie, and explain if it was indeed a ghost or not?????


message 19: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments Alasa, Diana G has told us thru interviews or some such source that the ghost is Jamie. But she's also told us that we'll have to wait until her last book to find out in what context Jamie is "seeing" Claire. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I got the impression it would be one of the last things in that last book.


The UHQ Nasanta (uhqs) Lori wrote: "For someone who's supposed to have a glass face, Claire seemed to be able to hide a lot in that beginning segment. Or did she? "

I'd wondered about that too but perhaps it was due to her (view spoiler)


message 21: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments Lori, you know it is definitely a lot of work to go, but so worth it!!! I saved up for 3 years and planned the whole thing myself, and it was so amazing! My sister and I decided we want to move there when we retire. One day I was talking about how much I'd love to go to Scotland, it has been #1 on my to do list since I was a little girl. It's hard to explain, but I've always felt it calling to me, I HAD to go. And my husband said, well save up and go!! So awesome :) It felt like home to me, when we were there. And I am determined to go back. :)


message 22: by Carren (new)

Carren Kay | 953 comments We spent two weeks in Scotland last September, wind and rain, and it was beautiful. I had also thought wouldn't this be a great place to retire to, until I saw how much housing is there. Oh my goodness! A small,three bed/1 bath house was around $400,000. in US $'s. I guess I'll just have to visit more often.
The bright side is that my daughter is going to Edinburgh in June to study. Guess who's going with her?


Katie (goodreadscomkathrynlily) | 18 comments Lori wrote: "I remember being completely frustrated picking up DiA and staring in 1968. I had the same feeling most of you did: HUH? Who the heck is Brianna? (Quickly figured out from her physical description.)..."

Oh, I understand! DiA's beginning is a HUGE mental adjustment. Not only is it a different time and new characters, but suddenly Claire's been away from Jamie for 20 years and has a grown daughter! Not having Jamie there in the beginning killed me. I ended up loving it though because I really enjoyed all of the French influence in there. Reading about 18th century France was amazing for me. :)


Katie (goodreadscomkathrynlily) | 18 comments I'd love to move to Inverness someday. But now I'm frightened about the cost lol


Cyndee | 3 comments I can't wait. Ok so I started re-reading for the third time and am a book ahead of the group. (I may skip ahead now cause I find Roger quite hot) and I LOVE Jamie!
I am wanting to say many things about people yet to be... well brought into the story or even different elements merging. But I don't want to ruin it for anyone.
What sections can I talk about and when. Cause ya don't want to ruin it!


The UHQ Nasanta (uhqs) Cyndee wrote: "I can't wait. Ok so I started re-reading for the third time and am a book ahead of the group. (I may skip ahead now cause I find Roger quite hot) and I LOVE Jamie!
I am wanting to say many things a..."


Why not use the individual book threads in The Books folder?

I found Roger hot in the beginning of Drums of Autumn. But after (view spoiler)


message 27: by Dawn (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dawn (delta108) | 63 comments I forgot how slow the start of this book. I can see where the newbees feel they came in "in the middle" of the story. All I can say is pay attention. Everything is related to something.


message 28: by Kathleenblack (new)

Kathleenblack | 5 comments Hi everyone. I'm new to the group and thrilled to have found you all.

I was disturbed by the loss of twenty years between Jamie and Claire also. But now I think Diana was pretty clever to do this.

She said one of her goals is to write about a marriage that lasts a lifetime. If you've been married a long time, I think the 20 years (more or less) women spend raising kids, moving through two decades of maturing and growing, can cause some real losses to the original relationship. Starting out as lovers and then finding yourselves strangers. It's very common.

Chances are Claire and Jamie would have had to re-discover each other after Bree was grown even if they hadn't been separated by Claire's return through the Stones.

What I really love is that Claire didn't "lose" HERSELF when she lost Jamie.


Diane | 1360 comments I agree Kathleen that is true for many marriages and they grow apart only to have to rediscover their marriage after 20 years.(personally my husband and I could not have children until we were together 20 years and the presents a whole different set of issues) Though I see the similarities at least the modern couple experiencing this do not spend that time wondering if the other is alive. This also gave Claire the opportunity to become a professional doctor and find herself in that kind of way which she really wouldn't have had had she stayed. I can't help but think those 20 years were an incredible waste of time though for both Jamie and Claire.


Tracy Grant | 1 comments Ok, I am already nearly 3 quarters of the way through and absolutely love this book. There are some of my favourite scenes and one of my favourite characters is introduced. I was also intrigued with the change in the beginning of the book, but in some ways I think it is good for the reader. The end of Outlander is so intense and emotional that I always feel it may be a bit much to go straight from that into more drama. One thing these books are are eventful, lol, so it gives the reader a bit of a break.


message 31: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments Diane wrote "I can't help but think those 20 years were an incredible waste of time though for both Jamie and Claire"
I wholeheartedly agree!!! It is a very long time. And yes, she did use it to become a doctor and "find herself" as you say. But it could have taken a whole lot less than 20 years. Half that time would've been sufficient. I am just thinking there are 8 books, do they all jump large amounts of time? This 20 years thing really gets me, it's so sad!


Diane | 1360 comments That is the only jump like that so far and once everything gets going the story takes off and keeps going.


message 33: by Fawn (new) - added it

Fawn | 404 comments Ugh I haven't even had time to start this re read yet. I am still discussing a re read of The Scottish Prisoner on another site. So much GREAT reading so little time..... I will try and catch up with everyone. Oh and Welcome Kathleen & Alasa


message 34: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments 20 years does seem like a long time, but... in the next book ("Voyager"), you'll catch up with Jamie over those years, as they trace him thru what they can find. And knowing what we do about what happened in Scotland after Culloden, for Claire to stay would likely have meant losing Bree and perhaps her own life... certainly starvation or worse. Jamie didn't want that for Claire, which is why he sent her back.

It was hard for me, too - I thought it was an awful waste of time. But both Claire and Jamie "needed" what happened in those 20 years to become who they were afterwards... and into the next set of books, beginning with "Voyager". (At least, that's my opinion.) I think that reading and re-reading the books seems to give me a better perspective of the story as a whole and the characters. Not that I still don't have questions, mind you. *grin*


message 35: by Kathleenblack (new)

Kathleenblack | 5 comments Diane wrote"This also gave Claire the opportunity to become a professional doctor and find herself in that kind of way which she really wouldn't have had had she stayed."

Good point Diane. I'm thinking of all of the scenarios that would have had very unhappy endings if Claire had only her nursing skills rather than her physician's expertise.

A true silver lining for Claire in that she is always questioning whether or not she is able to make a difference/impact/change the future.

And thanks for the welcome Fawn :)


message 36: by Lis (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lis | 22 comments What I like about revisiting these books is that we have so much more knowledge about their lives and catch all the hints and side stories that I didn't really absorb the first time thru but has more significance in a later book. What I also find fascinating is how much Claire and Jamie strengthen each other and are stronger characters than they are with other people. I don't want to ruin it for those that have not read Voyager but Jamie by himself is a disaster. And Claire and Frank not so pretty either.


Carol L | 218 comments Carren an Alasa- we've been twice, 2003 and 2006. We had picked out an empty lot on our first trip...it was sold and built on when we returned. One thing I've heard said is spend a winter there before you move. The lovely late days of Summer turn very dark and short in the winter. But I definately understand the urge. Both of us feel so at home in the highlands.


message 38: by Lori (last edited Mar 03, 2012 04:00PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments I should probably put this in the Voyager thread, but I'll put in a spoiler tag here... (view spoiler)

Kathleen - sorry for not welcoming you sooner! Glad you're joining in!


The UHQ Nasanta (uhqs) Ian, not Willoughby, Lori. But yes, agreed with your comment.


message 40: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments As long as it's spoiler tagged, we're good.


message 41: by Leah (new) - rated it 5 stars

Leah (leah_moss) | 91 comments I was definitely confused on my first read of DIA. I spent the first part of the book doing math in my head trying to figure out Brianna's birth date...I was thinking "but Claire was pregnant when she left the abbey..." I was somewhat prepared (via my math skilz) for what happened to Faith, but not near enough. :(

I've said this on here somewhere before, but I think their 20 year separation was very necessary for all the reasons you guys have mentioned already, but also because we probably would have found J & C's life raising babies a bit dull to read about (Culloden & Post-Rising drama aside). I have 3 small children and life is not glamorous...It's great, but it probably wouldn't live up to the romantic-drama-adventure-filled books that we love. (view spoiler)


message 42: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments First official Question for Dragonfly in Amber!

In the first initial chapters we're introduced to Brianna. How did you feel about her initially, clearly she is Jamie's offspring but raised in the 20th. What did you think happened?


message 43: by Lotte (new)

Lotte | 330 comments Oh, I seem to have logged-in on time!

Outlander having ended with the hints of a pregnant Claire, I assumed that Brianna was this child. Going on reading, however, there were statements of her date of birth, or rather here next birthday; everything along this whisky drinking and the fact the Brianna did not like whisky - and that in Scotland! Claire: "You have to be twenty-one before you can drink legally in Massachusetts,... Bree has another 8 months to go." This was said in early spring (March/April?) of 1968, therefore reaching 21 in Nov./Dec., states she was born in 1947. That made me wonder, even after I had found out about Faith and when Claire, 2 months pregnant, went through the stones on April 16, 1746. I assumed that she would have come back to the present 3 years after she had left, i.e. 1948. But as always, the Outlandish Companion gives the answers.

Checking the dates again now, I see how inconvenient it is that the chapters do not give dates.

Brianna's behaviour was more or less OK with me, her reaction about finding out that Frank was not her father rather overdone. Though Brianna is almost my age, I lack this experience and therefore do not want to judge. "Both of us" having matured in the 1968s, I could not quite understand her later on. All this will be part of DOA, though.


message 44: by Carren (new)

Carren Kay | 953 comments At first I got the impression she really didn't want to be in Scotland.
I really didn't make any decision whether to like her or not, until almost the end of the book. To me, her character had to "grow" on you. You had to get to know her.


message 45: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments I am a little ways into the flashbacks. So I've read Brianna stuff up to when she finds out Frank wasn't her dad. You would've thought, with her appearance, she would've suspected it. But I do like her already. And I like her with Roger too. Looking forward to her being in the book more. And I hope Jamie gets to meet her.


message 46: by Alasa (new)

Alasa | 13 comments Carol L wrote: "Carren an Alasa- we've been twice, 2003 and 2006. We had picked out an empty lot on our first trip...it was sold and built on when we returned. One thing I've heard said is spend a winter there b..."
We went in March, it was great. Very much like the weather where I live in the states. One thing I regret is not having made friends. I would love to have someone I met over there to keep in touch with. I think next time I will go in summer, to see what its like.


Sassafrass (sass-a-frass) | 24 comments I'm just getting past that part, so I have a very recent reaction to her. I like her spunk and spirit, and I tried to be understanding to her reaction to Claire telling her that Frank wasn't her father. He just died and that's the only father she's known, so to have her mother tell her some cockamamie story about her father actually being from the 1700's...yeah I think I would have be a little freaked too!


message 48: by Lori (last edited Mar 04, 2012 01:26PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (lorimcd) | 657 comments I wasn't sure about Brianna at first. I, too, wondered how she could think that she was possibly Frank's daughter, when she looked nothing like Frank and very little like Claire - at least from the description. It was obvious to us, the readers, that she's Jamie's daughter.

I think that I was disappointed that Brianna was a girl; I'd hoped for a boy. But as I read, I realized how difficult that would have been for the story-at-large.

As a whole:
* I like the relationship that she and Claire have.
* I liked that Bree and Roger had similar vibes about one another. I really liked Roger from the beginning of Dragonfly.
* At first, I was outraged that Bree wouldn't want Jamie as her father. But then I realized that Frank was the only father she'd ever known. And that Frank must've been crazy about her, even without reading the whole book (Dragonfly). It seemed as if Frank & Claire sheltered Bree somewhat, because it seemed as if Claire's disappearance and reappearance would have made it across the pond through the university connections. But perhaps not - not in the late 40s and early 50s?

My mother was adopted away from her family. She is the last of 4 and was separated from her family... long story. Anyway, she was raised by an older couple who couldn't have kids, and they eventually adopted her. They were the only parents she'd ever known. And the story of her adoption, as notorious as it was for its time (1944-ish), wasn't well known or was forgotten. My mother didn't know she had another family until she was 16, when her two older brothers showed up and introduced themselves to her. It was quite a shock! And I realized from the talks I'd had with my mother that Bree's reaction was completely normal - especially with the bizarre story her mother, Claire, told her! It was tough enough for my own mother to believe her story, even when she read the copy of her adoption decree.

I think that, overall, I liked Bree in Dragonfly. I could see how she might turn on Claire, especially after some of the things that Claire tells her. And Bree was very close to Frank. It's tough to see your parents as anything other than what you want them to be, even when you start to realize things weren't quite as "wonderful" as you thought. Bree knew there were tensions between her parents, but that seemed to be mostly over Claire becoming a doctor. (Or so I think Bree would see it that way.)

I have to admit, though, I had a tough time when we had to go back and forth from Claire's story of the past to the "present" with Bree, Claire, and Roger.

So my first impressions of Bree were neutral. I didn't love her, but she didn't annoy me either.


message 49: by Wendy F, biblioholic (last edited Mar 04, 2012 03:06PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Sassafrass wrote: "I'm just getting past that part, so I have a very recent reaction to her. I like her spunk and spirit, and I tried to be understanding to her reaction to Claire telling her that Frank wasn't her f..."

I agree with you Sassafrass. That's exactly how I felt about her. I thought her reactions were honest. Claire wasn't only telling her that Frank wasn't her biological father, which is a hard enough pill to swallow, but she was also telling her that her father lived in the 1700's and that she had been whisked back in time. It's likely nobody would have believed her, and I can understand completely why she was so angry.

I also loved being introduced to Bree. Reading how much she looked like Jamie, and then Claire's years away from him.... Can you imagine how hard that was? And on top of that every time she looked at Bree she thought about how much she missed him, but also so glad that Bree is there. I mean, I would imagine that if it wasn't for Bree's existance Claire might have started to feel herself as though she was crazy. Bree was Claire's self-proof.

Bree was headstrong even in the beginning, but she was born in the 60's, she was a Fraser through and through, and she was very young. I think a certain level of hot headedness just comes with youth.


message 50: by Mimi (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mimi Smith | 199 comments I thought I had missed a book or was reading them out of order. I didn't have an effing idea what happened. So I checked the synopsis, snooped around a bit and found out she came back from the past after Culloden. I really liked Bree at the beginning. Plus I had this giddy feeling:"Cool she's Jamie's daughter!". Then I started to think: But he didn't raise her, nor does he know her, so I started getting SAD... I also found it weird how it was told from Roger's POV when I had no idea who he is.

Someone told me they had trouble getting through the beginning of DIA because it was slow...Slow, my ass! I couldn't tear myself away from the book waiting to see what had happened and to see Bree find out.

A heartbreaking scene was when we saw Claire watching Bree sleep, and slowly caressing her..."You look so much like him"...*SIGH*


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