Connecting Readers and Writers discussion
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Why did you go indie?
I did begin by attempting to go down the traditional route, but realised that my book, being science fantasy was going to be a hard sell (especially being my first book!).So I decided to publish it myself.
It's been a hard year, learning that I'm not quite as good at editing and proofreading as I thought I was, but still worth it!
I'm a control freak too, about my book. It's fabulous to choose your own cover, instead of the woes the trad-published have with dodgy covers. I'm new and ignorant and only met the concept of indie when I began to think about publishing last year. Then I seesawed for a month: indie or industry? It came down to, which of those words do I like?
Then I read a few hard facts: that whiz-bang trad-published novels often sell in the low thousands or even the hundreds - figures that can be matched by an indie. If you don't sell in the first weeks, you're written off as a flop and they cease efforts to sell your book. You go out of print and vanish. I started to see, that even if we are trad-published - after we've jumped through the hoops and given up control of our book and done the slog of agents and waited years - the big event can often be a massive let-down. As for the financials, the majority of novels don't make a profit for the publisher: that means, you only ever earn the advance.
Most of those facts and cautions I got from an agent.
But the short answer is, my sentiments were indie. I'd always thought of the industry as a necessary evil, so when I found out the evil isn't necessary these days, my decision was made. And je ne regrette rien, which I can sing but can't remotely spell. Er, I have no regrets. Whatever happens...
I'd love to hear some perspectives on traditional VS indie. I have a traditional publishing contract in my hands. I haven't signed it yet. I have friends who are urging me to go indie. I'd love to hear pros & cons on each side. (esp from any traditionally published authors who believe that's the way to go -- because I haven't heard that POV articulated well yet.)
I write for a small-press publisher, and they have me locked into a right of first refusal clause. Given the unique situation at my publisher, including long lead times (my last release with them was eight months under consideration and another seven to START the editing process) and my editor not being a good match, I decided to create a new pen name for short (mostly serialized) erotic m/m. I can write a book, have it back from my editor, have a cover artist working on a cover, and have it up for sale in a week or two.
Ned wrote: "I'd love to hear some perspectives on traditional VS indie. I have a traditional publishing contract in my hands. I haven't signed it yet. I have friends who are urging me to go indie. I'd love to ..."Ned, both have pluses and minuses.
With indie--
You control the process--edits, cover, etc. It is all your vision.
You control the release date.
You can easily upload a new version or edit.
You can see immediate sales figures rather than not knowing anything for months. This allows you to structure your writing/sales for maximum marketability.
With trad pubbed--
You have the publisher's name behind you and for some readers, that adds to legitimacy.
They handle formatting, cover, editing, release.
They usually have more distribution channels.
Better chance of reviews.
I firmly believe both avenues can exist for the same author.
Meagan wrote: "it doesn't help that everyone in my family says I will fail miserably)..."Meagan, this is terrible - but not unknown. The harsh truth is, one of the people closest to me was nothing but discouraging (fortunately, counter-weighed by the other person closest to me). Ah, that's when you gotta have faith in yourself.
I've only seriously considered publishing since the end of last year after some considerable encouragements from friends. A few friends of mine are involved in the publishing business, and I simply cannot imagine the process involved with traditional publishing, where I have no control over anything. If I were to publish something, it's my blood and tears and god knows what else going into those pages. To think that I would have no control over any of the publication process...Before going indie, I've see the success stories of indie authors. I know some who have gone indie and enjoyed the process. It's more streamlined, and it fits better with what I was looking for.
I went Indie for the main reason that I just love to write. If I sell a few books I'm good with that. If Not I'm good with that too. I write for a release, not to get rich or for the adulates.
Plus I too am a bit of a control freak. I like to work on the covers, the promotion and everything that comes with publishing a book. I've learned a lot over the years and I know there is much more to learn.
That's why I went indie.
Plus I too am a bit of a control freak. I like to work on the covers, the promotion and everything that comes with publishing a book. I've learned a lot over the years and I know there is much more to learn.
That's why I went indie.
I turned down a tradtional publishing contract and I'm now in the process of getting my first indie book ready. Reason: insanity! Just kidding. I signed a contract for both paperback and ebook with my publisher. After months of delays, they said they were dropping the paperback and only wanted to do the ebook. Well, with all the advances in self-publishing, I was sure I could do the ebook just as well as they could and keep more of the royalties for myself. So luckily, they gave me my rights back to the book and now I'm going indie. I hope I don't regret it! (but I don't think I will)
I went Indie from sheer impatience, and a nagging doubt that I would be wasting my time trying to get an agent, then a publisher.I sent my book to the agents I could find who would accept email submissions, hoping for the quickest runaround times, and, after rejections (sci-fi humour is a hard sell, even when its good!), I baulked at the length of time the postal mail submission process took.
The doubt about getting published is down to my genre.
Oh and yes, lots of online resources to let a persistent author get their own word out there was an attractive element in the self-publishing decision making process.
I've not regretted it so far, but I've only been going just under three weeks.
I wanted to write my stories. When I first thought about pursuing publishing (three years after I wrote the book I published two months ago), I remembered reading a comment from an author/writer somewhere that "by the time my editor was done editing, it was no longer my book." When I looked into a small ebook press, thinking I might send a query, I read their guidelines very carefully. At the time, I was writing the third book in my series, and one of the situations for the hero/heroine (I write romance) they would not accept was exactly what I was writing about in Book 3. I think when I read that, that was the moment I firmly decided to go Indie.
I published my first book on Amazon in January, and the second in February. The third is ready for release March 1st, and I'm loving writing Book 4 (with Book 5 and a novella in the planning stages) I love not having to answer to anyone (other than my critique partner), and I can experiment with my characters the way I want, not what is deemed "marketable" at the moment.
Ned wrote: "I'd love to hear some perspectives on traditional VS indie. I have a traditional publishing contract in my hands. I haven't signed it yet. I have friends who are urging me to go indie. I'd love to ..."Ned,
Check out Joe Konrath's website for all the education you'll ever need on the subject.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/
His current post is something you should read before you sign.
Paula
OK, so I'm a little bit of a control freak.I found an agent for my book, and at first he LOVED it. Then, suddenly, I never heard back from him. I don't believe he was as assertive as he could have been with my story.
I know this guy, Charles F. Millhouse - turns out, get this, he's a writer too! He had his Indy books for sale on amazon and other places too, and he showed me the ropes.
I jumped in.
Now, my stories are selling, I'm making money, and there's no waiting around for the Traditional Publishers to get my story into the hands of Middle America where it belongs.
I'd still like to have a a book published by a major house, way down deep in my heart, but everything I've learned from Indy publishing will make that deal much more reality-based for me when it does happen.
I like it that everyone here shares ideas and stories.
Thanks,
Paula
I went indie after a number of attempts at traditional, through publishers big and small, and a few agents. They are just too busy, they all said. I got a few pieces of good advice on improvements to the samples they looked at. I was an editor and proofreader, plus I have years of experience in art and design. We wanted to get our message out, so we educated ourselves in e-publishing. Still learning promotion, but we sell around 10 copies of our 14 titles every month, more than we would if we had never done this. What I am curious about is how indies do with print books. Can anyone share how well indie print copies sell compared to e-books? The price differences may be disproportionate, since print is relatively costly, but I wonder if, as many indies tell me, that they feel they must have print and that they sell enough print to justify that cost?
I tried the traditional route at first, but because my novel was just over 40k, no one was interested in looking at it. Instead of bulking it up with filler chapters to get the word count up (which would have spoiled the story), I published it myself. I worked with a circle of other writers who helped me with editing and proofreading, so by the time I was ready to send it "out there", I felt confident about the final product.
Mary wrote: "I went indie after a number of attempts at traditional, through publishers big and small, and a few agents. They are just too busy, they all said. I got a few pieces of good advice on improvements ..."Mary,
I self-published my book in both ebook and paperback formats. I used Createspace for the paperback process and I actually am selling more paperback copies than kindle copies. People still love traditional books! If you are willing to do the promotion for paperback books, they will sell. I have done a few book signings and promotions with local churches and ministries (it's a christian book) that have been really successful. It's true that the cost is higher for print books, but I'm willing to take that hit to get my book into the hands of new readers.
I went indie because I'm impatient, headstrong and also (like so many others of you!) a bit of a control freak. I sent out about twenty queries and only got back one request for a partial. And then... crickets.My visionary husband saw the e-book revolution coming long ago, and encouraged me to jump on the bandwagon. I'm a self employed small business owner, and I'm used to flying without a net anyway, so I went for it.
The only promotion I do is querying book bloggers for honest reviews, and they've been great. My sales have been increasing every month, and I'm working hard to improve my writing and editing skills.
The trajectory is good, and I have ideas enough to keep me writing for the next decade, but I have to ask myself- should I submit my next book series to publishers in the hopes of sparing myself the hassle of self-promotion? Now that I have a track record, will they take me more seriously? Is it worth it to give up any of your rights?
Part of me screams: I DON'T NEED NO STINKING PUBLISHER!
The rest of me is not so sure...
Gillian wrote: "I self-published because at last I realized that I could, easily, through Amazon. I had a horrible experience years ago with a traditional publisher, and it put me off writing for nearly twenty ye..."Gillian, sorry, I need a translation of the word "twee," please. :-) I agree that indie gets a bad rep, if that's what you mean.
Kristen wrote: "Mary wrote: "I went indie after a number of attempts at traditional, through publishers big and small, and a few agents. They are just too busy, they all said. I got a few pieces of good advice on ..."Thank you, Kristen, Can I be nosy and ask how many pages for the paperback and how much it sells for? Glad to hear you are selling them!
Mary wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Mary wrote: "I went indie after a number of attempts at traditional, through publishers big and small, and a few agents. They are just too busy, they all said. I got a few pieces of..."Hi Mary,
It's short, close to 100 pages and I sell it for $9.00 on Amazon. I sell copies for $8 at book signings. The ebook version is only $4.99. I think under $10 helps make books an impulse buy especially for local events.
Hi Mary,No, I didn't mean a bad rep, I meant that the word itself to me sounds slightly apologetic, and I would like it to sound bigger and more successful. Sorry, didn't realize "Twee" was strictly UK!
Gillian wrote: "I dislike the term "indie" though. It seems a bit "twee"."Ohh... I see how indie can come across as twee. I overuse the word, as a new discoverer and keen. Besides (I admit in shame) I used to have the worst opinion of self-publishing; shoot me before I self-publish, I used to think. Dear me. When you have to scrub out that sort of attitude, you need a new word - for a new concept. Indie isn't what self-publishing used to be. Unless self-publishing was always indie and I was just a narrow-minded sod.
I use 'independently published' in less casual contexts.
Kristen wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Mary wrote: "I went indie after a number of attempts at traditional, through publishers big and small, and a few agents. They are just too busy, they all said. I got a ..."Thank you for the paperback info, Kristen!
I went independent because I see little value in having a publisher. I have never once wished to have one, although if one does come along with a cheque for 500K, I might be swayed :)I don't want to be relegated to 10-15% cut of each book, so I would rather forge my own path through discovery, hard work and perseverance. Sure it is harder being your own marketeer but I like the challenge.
Gillian wrote: "Hi Mary,No, I didn't mean a bad rep, I meant that the word itself to me sounds slightly apologetic, and I would like it to sound bigger and more successful. Sorry, didn't realize "Twee" was stri..."
It probably isn't strictly UK, Gillian. I just had heard it but wasn't sure of the meaning. I love coming across fun words like that. We should all vote on a new word to replace indie.
I love the term indie! To me it sounds descriptive of a cool outsder, an iconoclast, like "indie filmmakers" or, "indie rock"... not to mention Indiana Jones! Just sayin'.
I decided to try my hand at independent publication after countless query attempts. After receiving several, "The story and concept are unique and very interesting, however...didn't connect with the main character, talented writing, but prose too heavy," etc. etc., I despaired of finding any interested agent who simply liked the story as it was, sans any professional editing requirements.In many ways, I needed to move on with the next book project and needed, at the same time, to let this one go. I felt the story had potential in finding an audience and self-publication seemed a reasonable route to take. It has not been easy.
The worst thing has been the process of uploading, because I find strange errors in the preview device (on Amazon) that are not in the original text, so have no idea how to repair them. Marketing has been difficult for me, as I don't really have the disposition for it. Outside of the marketing and technical issues, it has been an interesting (and enjoyable) adventure.
Thayer wrote: "I decided to try my hand at independent publication after countless query attempts. After receiving several, "The story and concept are unique and very interesting, however...didn't connect with t..."Thayer, get the Smashwords style guide and follow it very carefully. It's free on Amazon and on the Smashwords site. You will get rid of all the strangeness. Join some of the author sites on Facebook like indie writers unite and they will be mean to you sometimes but give you great advice other times. Figure out your niche and find author groups who will support you in promoting and teach you to promote as well. There is a site called IndieAuthors which focuses somewhat on Christian writers but encourages others to join as well. You can put up your works for critique and writing help by other authors on some sites. Wish you well!
Derrolyn wrote: "I love the term indie! To me it sounds descriptive of a cool outsder, an iconoclast, like "indie filmmakers" or, "indie rock"... not to mention Indiana Jones! Just sayin'."I like indie too, Derrolyn. It's an ancient and honored tradition. :-) It does sometimes seem as though people automatically reject you if you call yourself that, though. On the Amazon boards there was a long running thread about how to avoid indie books, making the authors label themselves as such so these readers could stay away from them. That is one stinky attitude.
I went indie because someone told me it was possible. I'm old skool I didn't know that self-publishing even existed. I got so lucky that a) I finally finished my novel and b) I met someone that self-published before. I'm an Indie spirit by far I listen to Indie music, and I've always been 'a little weird' so I think this suits me just fine!
I went indie because my niche market-- humorous sci-fi-- tends to be pretty small and isn't the type of material publishers currently are putting money toward, particularly for a newer author.The timing and opportunity just seemed right. It was one of those cases where I felt I didn't want to be looking back five years from now and wonder why I didn't make the leap.
Mary wrote: "Thayer wrote: "I decided to try my hand at independent publication after countless query attempts. After receiving several, "The story and concept are unique and very interesting, however...didn't..."Hi Mary and thanks!
I've thought about Smashwords and after the KDP contract is up at the end of March, I do plan to go the Smashwords route. I'm going to read up on the style guide right away, because I would like to offer the work on other venues--Nook, Sony, etc. I've had some good reviews on the book, both on U.S. and UK Amazon, and don't want to lose those if I re-upload the work through Smashwords.
Thanks for the groups information as well :)
I knew I had no choice but to go Indie after several years of chatting with dozens of agents and editors at a number of great writing conferences.I started with "I'm a genre cross-dresser. I started with a place, then populated it with people and listened to and wrote their stories. Then another place and more people, then another place and more people. And more stories.... there is bonus content for all of it across 50 or more websites, and it will take years to finish it all. Bits and pieces -- from short stories to 90,000 word novels -- will be available all along the road."
About half way through that sentence, their eyes glazed over and they replied "but we're into the one-book-at-a-time one-genre book business."
And all along I'd thought they were in the story business... my bad.
An article on my CNN app on the increase in ebook sales during the summer of 2010 reminded me of how a little thing called the printing press helped move along The Protestant Revolution. Being Lutheran I thought hmm, if that could happen then, how can e-publishing change the world now? So I decided to jump on that train and see where it goes. So far, so good. It's still growing and I believe it has tremendous potential for the future - and I want to be part of it!
I pursued publishing within the CBA. My fiction books come from a Christian viewpoint. I attended the ACFW conference and talked to agents. One agent who asked for my manuscript and seemed to be on the verge of representing me suddenly retired.
A publisher also asked for my manuscript. After they had my manuscript five months, I contacted them. It seems my manuscript was misplaced when one of the editors left. I re-sent the manuscript, waited four more months without hearing back, and pulled my manuscript from that company.
I attended the next conference. Talked to five or six agents. Only two asked for the manuscript of one of my books, and they weren't sure if it was publishable. Why? Because it deals with cloning, and they said Christian publishers would not touch it.
A small publisher also asked for the manuscript but didn't seem very enthused.
I came home and thought it over. I happened to read an article that compared being published to getting married. This person said too many people jump into marriage without fully weighing the pros and cons. Likewise, she said, too many writers jump at the chance to be published and are so thankful anyone would have them.
I considered my options and began looking into self publishing. That was in November and my first book was published within four months.
It's been a wonderful experience--difficult but wonderful!
Huh. I heard that self-published was a bad thing, so Indie was a cool name for it. I went indie because I was sick of rewriting my novel and publishing it was the only way to stop. This thread has some great resources, I'm glad I found it:)
Thayer wrote: "Mary wrote: "Thayer wrote: "I decided to try my hand at independent publication after countless query attempts. After receiving several, "The story and concept are unique and very interesting, how..."Thayer, you won't lose your Amazon reviews if you publish with Smashwords also. We have our books in both venues. Best wishes.
I went Indie after a year and a half of sending sample chapters, query letters, synopsis etc etc to agents and getting the 'great story, good characters, enjoyed your writing style...we can't take anyone on right now' letters in return, and I finally came to the point where I had to take a leap of faith and have a go myself - I want my book to be read, dammit! :-) I have to admit that, despite making a huge number of newbie mistakes, I'm really thankful that I chose this path, thrilled that my book is being read and terribly proud to have achieved an ambition that I've had since I was 11. I've learned a huge amount since I uploaded my novel to KDP on 4th September last year and I'm planning on keeping it going now - I have another 3 books coming out over the next 2 years.
I love hearing about other Indie authors' experiences and have gleaned vast amounts of great tips and advice from discussions like this. Thanks so much for sharing.
Best wishes
Ashley
Great question. I guess I went Indie because after editing, rewriting, editing, rewriting, rinse and repeat, my wife knew I needed a deadline. She bought me a gift certificate for a website with an expiration date. I figured why not. I have to say the process has been extremely fun and enlightening.
I went Indie in part because I got so close to deals in NY but always turned down. I did the small ePublishing for a while, but then, when NY Times Bestselling author Bob Mayer and I got to talking about some of the books he got the rights back and asked if I could help him convert them to eBook we ended up starting a our own publishing company, Who Dares Wins Publishing, using his backlist as the foundation. We went from selling 347 ebooks in January of 2011 to selling 65,000 in July of the same year and we're still going strong.
Jen wrote: "I went Indie in part because I got so close to deals in NY but always turned down. I did the small ePublishing for a while, but then, when NY Times Bestselling author Bob Mayer and I got to talking..."I looked at your site for Who Dares Wins. It looks great. Fantastic job!
E. Milan
E. Milan----Thanks
I went with a POD publisher (booklocker.com) because I couldn't get anywhere with agents; and after 17 years of on-and-off writing and editing, I wanted my novel printed. I wanted to give my children and grandchildren a legacy (of sorts). Now I want a few people whom I don't know, people who appreciate historical fiction, to read the damned thing. I'd definitely like to know what they think. This book promotion experience is becoming more and more educational.
I went indie because I'm not good enough to be published. First, I knew that as an African American writer, I wouldn't get a second look if my topics weren't very urban or hypersexual. Plus, I experiment a lot in my work. I write to make a good story, not to please my readers. I kill main characters, cuss, and address taboo topics. There's no way a publisher would accept me. I doubt I'll ever be good enough for publishing. I'm cool with that.
Hey Kasif - You're good enough to be published if you're good enough to publish yourself! It's the ultimate meritocracy.Power to us all. ;)
I decided to go indie after about 200 rejection letters from lit agents. That was four years ago. I put the book down and said "screw it". Then I saw an article about Darcy Chan and her success as an indie author and with the new ebook craze I decided to try it out and self-publish. I had no idea how much work I would have to put into marketing the book but I also realized that even traditionally published authors still have to market themselves or be forgotten as well.
I am enjoying the ride so far. I love writing so much that I hope that some day I will be able to do it for a living. Until then I will remain comfortable laying in the woods with my cheek against the cold stock of my Rem700 Sniper Rifle and keeping the bad guy honest.
I went Indie and published with Xlibris. I went with them because I had finally found out that I loved historical fiction, and then worked diligently on my next book, A Healing Place, but I couldn't get anyone to listen, so I entered Xlibris on my email page one day, after seeing it in "Writers Digest" as one of the best. That following day I heard from an Xlibris publisher who listened patiently to my plot description, after he asked me what my book was about. Then he asked me to email him the entire manuscript, and he called me and asked me which two chapters described the book the best. I told him Chapter 5 and 17. Based on that, he canceled his appointments for the rest of the day and read the entire book. He loved it so much that he begged the Xlibris committee which was sending books to the World's Fair in Frankfurt, Germany, to send mine. They did send it there, it was an honor because they could only send five books out of all the books they send each year. That book is on Goodreads and is "A Healing Place."I also published "Blessed Are the Merciful, Our Forgotten Soldiers" through them.
Since then, they merged with IUniverse and Author Central,and I lost my publisher, marketing rep, anyone who had worked with me on the first book. Since then, they have also lost a tape, a synopsis, & changed an interview. I will not go to them again.
I hope with my next book, I will be able to get a regular publisher, because, no matter how good the book is, there is still a stigma attached to indie books. I live in Texas, and indie books aren't allowed to enter in the Texas Book Festival and most of the other book festivals in Texas. It's unfair, but it is a fact, so I am going to try to go the traditional way with my next book. Some people also think your book isn't any good if it's indie. I know that isn't fair.
Joyce, blessedarethemerciful.net
Meagan wrote: "I decided to go indie because I don't have the guts to try to get an agent (plus it doesn't help that everyone in my family says I will fail miserably). At least with indie publishing if I flop, it..."Looking for an agent doesn't take guts. It takes full body armor:)
It's too bad your family doesn't support you. Good for you for going ahead and publishing anyway. I hope you sell a million.
Jeff
Jeff
So please, tell us a little bit about why you chose to go indie instead of traditional.
I decided to go indie because I am a control freak and didn't want to give up all the control over my work. I come from the film industry and saw too many dreams shattered by big production companies. The other reason I went indie, was because I knew I could sell far fewer books and make more money then people who went traditional.
So, what's your story?