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Serieses! > Series name in original title field?

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message 1: by Natasa (new)

Natasa (natasalikes) | 146 comments Should a book that belongs in a series also have the series name in the original title field?

eg

Book Title (Series, #1)
or
Book Title

?


Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Just book title.


❂ Murder by Death  (murderbydeath) But previous threads about this have indicated we should not change entries that already include the series in the title. Just don't add them going forward. :)


Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Jennifer E. wrote: "But previous threads about this have indicated we should not change entries that already include the series in the title. Just don't add them going forward. :)"

We're talking about the "original title" field not the "title" field. What you're referring to exclusively effects the "title" field.


❂ Murder by Death  (murderbydeath) Sorry - didn't catch that word in the sentence.


message 6: by Natasa (new)

Natasa (natasalikes) | 146 comments Thanks Experiment. I know I'm squabbling over details here, but what about those books that have the title and the series in the original title field? Should the series go or remain there?


Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Natasa wrote: "Thanks Experiment. I know I'm squabbling over details here, but what about those books that have the title and the series in the original title field? Should the series go or remain there?"

Can you give me an example?


message 8: by Natasa (new)

Natasa (natasalikes) | 146 comments For those books that already have this in the original title field

Book Title (Series, #1)

should the series info stay or go?


Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Natasa wrote: "For those books that already have this in the original title field

Book Title (Series, #1)

should the series info stay or go?"


They should go. =) Goodreads titling conventions don't apply to the "original title" field. The word "original" supersede those rules.

This also means if the book was originally published in a non-English language but was later translated and published in English, then the "original title" should be in a non-English language.

Key word here is "original."


message 10: by Natasa (new)

Natasa (natasalikes) | 146 comments Thank you! :)


message 11: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42444 comments Mod
Experiment wrote: "Key word here is "original.""

I agree.


message 12: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 23782 comments Lots of series books have the Series Title in the original release, so I wouldn't go changing them unless you know for sure that they weren't there.


message 13: by EC (new)

EC (desertreads) | 4 comments I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edited the field that says 'original title' under work settings. Is the title at the top sometimes the 'original title'? (Also, going by memory, most of the time I've been editing already existing series titles to make them consistent. I have a lot of series in my collection and this is the only way I've found that I can see the series when looking at my book list. If there's another way, please share it with me.)


message 14: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edited the fie..."

No original title is ever "Blah Blah (Blah Blah series, #1)". The "(Blah blah series, #1)" is a thing that was invented by Goodreads. If there's a particular book you're unsure of, I encourage you to ask it here.

You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug.


message 15: by EC (new)

EC (desertreads) | 4 comments Experiment BL626 wrote: "You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug...."

Nope, I've been extremely careful NOT to edit that field. I will be doubly careful in the future.

Is the title at the top of the page ever the original title? There was one book I edited just a few days ago, where I added the (series) to the title at the top of the page. It didn't have any series info before I edited it. After I added the series info to this one field and went to look at 'My Books' the series name was listed twice. I definitely didn't enter it twice, so I removed it from the title field. Then it did not appear at all with the book title. So I added it back, and that time it appeared only once. (It was Popped by Carol Higgins Clark, when I look now I see that the original title field has the (series) info. The Librarian change log, in 'Librarian edits for Popped' only my edits to the title field are listed. But the 'Librarian edits for this Work' does say I edited the original_title field the first time I edited the title (see column 1 for matching time) (it also shows this as the previous edit to the work:
"Sandra updated the work Popped (Regan Reilly Mysteries, #8) by Carol Higgins Clark
original_title: 'Popped: A Regan Reilly Mystery (Regan Reilly Mysteries (Paperback))' to 'Popped (Regan Reilly Mysteries, #7)'
Mar 23, 2010 04:16pm (#2766561)"

How does the original title field work? Is there a "master" record for the title, so that when the title is changed for that record it also changes the original_title? Was I possibly changing that record and didn't know it?


message 16: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Mar 13, 2012 10:31PM) (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments EC wrote: "Experiment BL626 wrote: "You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug...."

Nope, I've been extremely careful NOT..."


Please accept my apology, then. I now think it is a programming bug. Changing the info in the 'title' field shouldn't change the info the 'original title' field AFAIK.

Yes, some the title at top is the original title. Original title is the title of the very very 1st edition of the book. Sometime, as Sandra, said it may include a subtitle and that subtitle is part of the series' title.

For example, "Dragon Strike: Book Four of the Age of Fire" is acceptable in the 'original title' field because, well, it is the original title. However, in the title field, sans original, it would be "Dragon Strike" or "Dragon Strike (The Age of Fire, #4)".


message 17: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 23782 comments Experiment BL626 wrote: "EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edi..."

Ebooks frequently come out as Blah Blah Blah (Blah, #1). Usually, the author has a 3 book deal etc, sometimes they are just hopeful.


message 18: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 23782 comments EC wrote: "There was one book I edited just a few days ago, where I added the (series) to the title at the top of the page. It didn't have any series info before I edited it. After I added the series info to this one field and went to look at 'My Books' the series name was listed twice. I definitely didn't enter it twice, so I removed it from the title field. Then it did not appear at all with the book title. So I added it back, and that time it appeared only once."

The reason for this EC, is that there was an extra space at the end of the title ie Blah Blah (Blah, #1)X. Where X = a space.

If you see this again just edit out the extra space and it should be good.


message 19: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments I think if you have multiple editions of a book and edit one of them, the automated system will pick up original title and original publication date based on the edition with the earliest publication date. (I thought that they were going to turn that off after so many publication dates were lost in the Great Amazon Purge, but maybe it's still in place for titles.)


message 20: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42444 comments Mod
No, it was never turned off and there's good reason not to do so. We just didn't run a script forcing an original pub date for each work. They'll still populate when a work is edited.


message 21: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Sandra wrote: "Experiment BL626 wrote: "EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of..."

Really? Do they literally show "blab blah (blah, #1)" on the cover-art, title page, and the copyright page? I find it hard to believe. Do you know an example of such an ebook you can give to me? :)


message 22: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42444 comments Mod
I don't know about copyright page, but cover page and/or title page is not uncommon with dead-tree books in some genres. If the author has a contract for a trilogy, why shouldn't the book state as much?


message 23: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments rivka wrote: "I don't know about copyright page, but cover page and/or title page is not uncommon with dead-tree books in some genres. If the author has a contract for a trilogy, why shouldn't the book state as ..."

I'm questioning whether they actually have the "(blah, #1)" part verbatim in their original title.


message 24: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42444 comments Mod
Probably no comma. Otherwise, I believe I have seen that.


message 25: by Vicky (new)

Vicky (librovert) | 2459 comments Experiment BL626 wrote: "I'm questioning whether they actually have the "(blah, #1)" part verbatim in their original title."

Not necessarily formatted as such. Here are some examples, all free nook/kindle books that have series information on their covers.

Shatter, Out From Edom, The Softwire: Virus on Orbis 1, The Birth of Zakaria


message 26: by Sandra (last edited Mar 15, 2012 12:58AM) (new)

Sandra | 23782 comments Experiment BL626, some random examples, incl a pb

All of Viola Grace's Sector Guard series - 1 to 25. 1st bk Freak Factor (Sector Guard, #1) by Viola Grace
Stripped (Her Captain's Command, #1) by Christina Stoke Hunted (Her Captain's Command, #2) by Christina Stoke Claimed (Brides of the Kindred, #1) by Evangeline Anderson Carinian's Seeker (Vampire Council of Ethics, #1) by T.J. Michaels Serati's Flame by T.J. Michaels


message 27: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Vicky wrote: "Not necessarily formatted as such."

But I am talking formatted as such. Original title is original title, exempt from Goodreads' title conventions.

Sandra wrote: "Experiment BL626, some random examples, incl a pb..."

I see series' title as the subtitle. I do not see them in parentheses and with a comma in this "(blah blah, #1)" setting which proves my point.

This one: Carinian's Seeker (Vampire Council of Ethics, #1) by T.J. Michaels

Its *original* title should be "Carinian's Seeker: Book 1 of the Vampire Council of Ethics" based on the cover-art. I already mentioned in comment #16 about how some books include the series' title as their subtitle. The example I gave was actually a real book.

I'm sorry to say, Sandra, but all the examples you've given prove my point. None of those series' title as formatted this "(blah blah, #1)" way as part of their original title.


message 28: by Paula (new)

Paula (paulaan) | 7027 comments GR has standards around formatting hence our use of the (blah blah, #1) in the series and for consistency I would want to use that format where ever we list a series.


message 29: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Mar 15, 2012 09:13AM) (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Paula wrote: "GR has standards around formatting hence our use of the (blah blah, #1) in the series and for consistency I would want to use that format where ever we list a series."

Title field, yes. But in the original title field?


message 30: by Paula (new)

Paula (paulaan) | 7027 comments Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and since I am fully aware that we have been discussing the ORIGINAL title field for the whole of this discussion the bolding is unnecessary.

An Original Title does not preclude GR having and following standards.

In the same way if the Original Title or indeed title was all in capitals GR standards is to use sentence case in both places.


message 31: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Mar 15, 2012 10:08AM) (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Paula wrote: "Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and since I am full..."


I thought rivka said the opposite, that it does preclude GR having and following standards? At least it's how I interpreted her comment in message #11 and how she didn't outright say how I was wrong in the first couple comments of mine when I answering Νατάσα about this issue.


message 32: by Paula (last edited Mar 15, 2012 10:14AM) (new)

Paula (paulaan) | 7027 comments Experiment BL626 wrote: "Paula wrote: "Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and s..."


If the series info is part of the original title title as in msg 25 and 26 then it should display consistently as per GR Standards in my opinion


message 33: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 | 358 comments Paula wrote: "If the series info is part of the original title title as in msg 25 and 26 then it should display consistently as per GR Standards in my opinion"

I see. But you can see where I am having problem with this. Because to me, original is original. It's not truly original anymore once it is effected by GR title convention. I guess we have a miscommunication about what original means.


message 34: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 42444 comments Mod
You are reading too much into that post of mine. I agree with Paula.


message 35: by Cornelia (new)

Cornelia (stage) | 86 comments Going by academical standards the original title is what is shown on the copyright page - regardless what the front cover or inner cover says. And if said original title says it's part of a series, then it's okay. If not it's not. And if you don't have said book physically in your hands to check, the national libraries are your friends (though, even there mistakes occur in data).


message 36: by Vicky (new)

Vicky (librovert) | 2459 comments I've always viewed the purpose of the original title as being more helpful in cases where...

1. Books are published with two different names, i.e. The Truth About Mr. Darcy was originally published as Affinity and Affection.

2. Books are printed in multiple languages. Like The Three Musketeers' original title is Les Trois Mousquetaires.

I don't see the reason of a separate standard of data entry for the original title field.


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