Questions, Resources, and General Banter - The Recognitions

[Ellen]

I am not at my most creative after a day teaching. Most nights I'm too tired to even read for more than a half-hour. I wake up at 4:30-any writing or reading I'm going to do for the day will be done then. But I go through long stretches when I can't even do that. It was worse when the children were younger.

Art is communication but not all communication is equal. A lot of popular communication is that we're all doing fine and that we will find love/success/happiness. Great. But there needs to be a space for the unpopular to be said, to be brought out into the open and examined.

And some messages are embedded in the craft and take more work to engage with. Unpaid work is often not a popular activity but our collective (though maybe not) individual survival may depend on it. A democracy needs citizens who are willing to spend some of their free time not just being entertained-be it tv, shopping, or light reading-or even doing all the hard work that being a parent (or even a single human being) needs to do - cooking, cleaning, caring for, etc. but also engaging in some way with larger human issues.

Oh well, enough for my soap box. It's just that I've been ridiculed for reading serious literature far more often than I've ever heard any one mocked for reading more popular works and I believe (obviously passionately) that difficulty in art should also be supported-not instead of [but when was that ever going to happen] but along with.

[Ellen]

btw, you all were hilarious with your neck/ivory input!

[Ian]

Ellie wrote: "btw, you all were hilarious with your neck/ivory input!"

Song of Solomon 7:4:

"Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbim. Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon looking toward Damascus."

This is actually the origin of the expression.

I'm not sure how flattering the nose comment is, though.

[Ellen]

I actually thought the quote was biblical altho I didn't know from where (I should have guessed!).

My nose is one of those tiny Irish affairs-no one would find Damascus following it. They'd barely find the tip of my lip.

I'll keep the neck & eyes comments, tho!

[Whitney]

Ellie wrote: "It's just that I've been ridiculed for reading serious literature far more often than I've ever heard any one mocked for reading more popular works ..."

Take heart, usually this kind of mocking is more jealousy than disdain. Like asking friends engaged in a major rebuild of their home how Versailles is progressing, or making cracks about steroids to people who work out regularly. If you're talking about people who are serous about criticizing your 'highbrow' reading, you really need to stop hanging out with Rick Santorum and his friends.

[Ian]

Don't you just love the way "Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbim" just rolls off your [metaphorically "jewel encrusted"] tongue.

[Edward]

Ian wrote: "If you want total artistic freedom, then the best way to do it is not to depend on your artistic income to make a living.

If you need to make a living, then first you must respect the idea of "int..."

I totally agree, altho' some who have gone the way of being popular like the Gentiles we were warned about in church haven't turned out too badly as far as "some originality". I have a lotta respect for writers who are anti-mainstream, and for some reason I'm at the point in my reading career where I lean towards what's art (prime example: Joyce Carol Oates) over "bestsellers". Tried reading Judith Krantz recently and she is NOT for me. I prefer Joyce.

[Bill]

Ellie, really, mocked for "high brow" reading? These are not people whom you should allow to kiss your feet. :-)

[Aloha]

I've never had anybody mock at my highbrow reading. They have expressed frustration at the books I've read since it was hard for them to get through. In fact, I managed to persuade people to read a book due to my enthusiasm before they give up on it. I think it's because my communication is "hip" (thanks, Ian) and enthusiastic.

[Ian]

Hopefully, many of us can help others exert themselves in favour of books that are rewarding.

[Ellen]

Bill wrote: "Ellie, really, mocked for "high brow" reading? These are not people whom you should allow to kiss your feet. :-)"

Well thank you sir.

[Ellen]

Don't know where to post this but I am beside myself with excitement. After years of trying, you guys helped me do this (and it's the only group read I think I've succeeded in on GR): I finished the book.

And I loved it.

You'd think as a Catholic, I would be offended but I found him (when not painfully tragic) hilariously funny.

I think I must be some kind of post-post modern freak. Maybe real emotions no longer exist, everything is too mediated.

Maybe that's partly what I meant when I called Gaddis romantic in an earlier discussion here. He cares enough to be angry.

Well, one emotion I have (I think) is love of reading. I loved this book. I can't wait to re-read it (actually, that's totally hyperbolic: I totally plan on waiting to reread but I hope I will someday).

I am so happy (my life is kind of tattered at the moment BUT the important thing is...I finished The Recognitions.

Do I hear an orchestra?

[Aloha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3ZMpv...

Congrats, Ellie!

[Ellen]

*bowing* thank you, Aloha!!

(very clever too)

[Aloha]

You're welcome, Ellie. It can't get much more celebratory than that!

[Ellen]

Well, I first started this book 5 years ago, so this isn't one of my speedy reads.

On the other hand, I had put it aside (with occasional attempts to read) until this group read.

Excuse me, I have to go listen to my overture again. :D

[Aloha]

I finished it last week, but it might take me five years to digest it. I raised my rating from 3 to 4 stars upon more reflection. It's not the difficulty. It just doesn't move me, with the exception of the art part. Maybe because I can't connect with the religious aspect since I was not raised in the Christian faith. I feel more of an outsider looking in. I can't connect with any of the characters, either. Right now, I'm working on other reads, but I'm trying to make time to collect my thoughts on Recognitions.

[Aloha]

I think the separation of chapters made me hesitate to go into the discussions. I'm not sure whether I'm in the right area. I'm going to have to go into the eBook and mark the sections for each discussion area.

[Aloha]

I have to go back to look at the references. I am interested in mythology, as in the Joseph Campbell type, and in Greek and Roman mythology. There's no doubt that this book has multiple levels. For some reason, I absolutely love House of Leaves but am lukewarm on Recognitions. I loved The Sound and the Fury. I didn't want to stop reading that. Then I saw that the next reading is Omensetter's Luck with one of the main character being a preacher, and I groaned. Maybe I have something against literature with preachers in it. LOL.

[Aloha]

I know that both books have a negative take on some aspects of Christianity, but somehow I can't link into the stories for or against. Hate is the other side of the coin from love, eh? I think people who have a Christian background, whether they love or hate, have a stronger link to the stories more than I have.

[Whitney]

A link to Orson Welle's last film "F is for Fake". It has some good parallels with "The Recognitions". It's about the forger Elmyr de Hory, and de Hory's biographer Clifford Irving, who is most famous for having written the famous fake biography of Howard Hughes. The film engages in its own forgeries and breaking of the fourth wall. The tricksters of the film are mostly admired, and the role of the bad guys is assigned to the so-called experts and art dealers, who are the most complicit (and profit the most) from the market in forged art.

And (I can't believe it hasn't come up yet), if anyone hasn't seen "Exit Through the Gift Shop" it is a brilliant and hilarious documentary (or not) about street artists, commercialism, and questions about what constitutes authenticity.

[Whitney]

A summer reading of J.R. via the LA Review of Books. Follow and join in on the blog or via twitter #OccupyGaddis. Only 75 pages a week, very doable.

[Matthew]

This was a fun read, and here is my review, two years late:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[[deleted user]]

Minor spoiler for those who may not be finished the book yet.
-
-
-
Where exactly in the book does Arny come out of the closet? I've re-read what I'm pretty sure are all of the passages that mention Arny, and I don't know if I've found the passage where this happens? I only know it has happened because of readers' guides, annotations, etc. Having finished the book it is something that remains unclear to me. Any thoughts on where I could start re-reading, friends?