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The Recognitions
The Recognitions - Spine 2012
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Questions, Resources, and General Banter - The Recognitions
Ack, I can see this has been up for a while but I completely missed it! I've been wanting to read this anyway, but it seemed a bit daunting...
Mod
I know you have a tight reading schedule because of school, but if you can fit it in, The Recognitions will give a great foundation for reading Gravity's Rainbow (if it's on your list) as well as for Infinite Jest.
BTW, the new edition from Dalkey Archive
has a good introduction by William Gass, who we'll be meeting in Omensetter's Luck.
Eeeek-I missed it too. I've been so busy with The Waste Land-but I was just thinking about
. I have a copy that's a number of years old that cost a small fortune, even as a paperback so I won't be buying a new one.Except maybe for my Kindle so I can carry it around with me.
This group is really exploding with good stuff now. Well, what we can't scrunch in now, I guess we'll catch up with later. (I might have to forsake all other groups, but that's ok..)
I went overboard and started swimming in "The Recognitions" earlier than scheduled.I've tried to document my experience as thoroughly as I have ever done with any book, so that I can help attract readers to this magnificent novel.
It won't be for everyone, but my review will hopefully hint at what's inside.
There is a bundle of little things on the review page for the book:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
My full Review is in My Writings pages:
http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...
I also created a Glossary and listed some favourite passages.
Also, I [sort of] reviewed Franzen's essay and wrote about my own reading experience.
If you want to work out how you might approach the novel strategically, the last item might help you without spoiling anything.
There are no plot spoilers in any of my writings, though I do discuss themes and metaphors pretty thoroughly.
Please give Gaddis a go. Happy reading.
I've got an Amazon order ready to be placed as soon as I get my next paycheck (the new edition, very exciting). I did browse through a copy at a local bookshop, and I must say I'm intimidated. This book is BIG. I'm definitely glad to have social support in reading this, as I don't think I could make it through without you guys.
Mod
BP is all about support for reading the thick books.
While you're waiting for your copy to arrive, here's an interesting take on Gaddis written by Jonathan Franzen.
http://adilegian.com/FranzenGaddis.htm
Mod
I've tried to document my experience as thoroughly as I have ever done with any book, so that I can help attract..."
Thank you for testing the waters!
I'm very happy you found The Recognitions to be a positive reading experience. Some of my favorite po-mo writers cite this book as an important inspiration to the development of their own work. I have a feeling that The Recognitions will greatly enhance and support our reading of Gravity's Rainbow which follows right after we finish Gaddis.
(I also suspect we will hear some echoes of Gaddis in Infinite Jest...)
I've been wondering whether Gaddis is "The Pale King" in DFW's eyes.
Mod
I haven't read The Pale King, but Gaddis' time as a corporate drone certainly bears some relation to the subject matter of TPK. BTW, I spent 20 years walled up in a grey cubicle myself and am mildly cautious about reading TPK - it might induce flashbacks!
Jim, I hasten to respond that I believe that DFW was saying that boredom was the problem and that the novel is therefore a quest for a solution. I'm very protective of it against the criticism that it is "about boredom".
It's only "about" boredom in the same sense that a book about Good is "about" Evil.
I hope this makes sense and doesn't come across as overly pedantic or semantic.
Couldnt help myself so paid 3 times the price of the book just to get it shipped here... Looking forward to cracking on with it, especially if its gonna be handy for Gravity's Rainbow
Mod
It's only money...
More that just Gravity's Rainbow, The Recognitions is one of the first steps from Modernism to Post-Modernism. More about that next week...
Jim wrote: "More than just Gravity's Rainbow, The Recognitions is one of the first steps from Modernism to Post-Modernism. More about that next week... "
That's a pretty good judgement, Your Honour, I look forward to your reasons ;)
Mod
You should receive your copy of my case next Monday, along with a witness list. Call my Clerk if it doesn't arrive by mid-afternoon...
Mod
I'm pretty excited too. The William Gass intro in the new release is pretty great.
This might be premature to say, but in the first chapter, I don't find anything that difficult to read. Of course, I just finished Ulysses, so maybe it's all relative....
Jim, I took a while to get used to the style in the first chapter, not because it was difficult, but because I found it very Henry Jamesian (i.e., almost 19th century).It wasn't the post-modernist style I thought it was going to be. But then I got on a roll.
Moonbutterfly wrote: "I've been waiting for this read since the group started. And then it's GR. Yipeee."Moonie, if I have time, I might try to fit in "V" beforehand.
Mod
Moonie, if I have time, I might try to fit in "V" beforehand."
V has been whispering to me from the bookshelf too...
V always whispers. She's a woman, and she likes us to pay attention.
Mod
and we do pay, don't we?
Mod
Well, this is the Brain Pain group, so what's the problem?
Better question "What Gaddis/Pynchon pairing would cause irreversible damage to one's mind?"
I should post that as a poll...
I lost track of the starting day on this one, I will be catching up. Meanwhile, I have dug my old Penguin copy out of the boxes of books in the garage. It has served as the birthplace of spiders, between the covers. Must have been a particularity flat kind of spider. Or at least literate. Maybe a descendant of Charlotte.
Moonbutterfly wrote: " have the same edition ($25.00 paperback) but I just purchased the eBook ($11.00). Penguin books just don't feel right in my hands, and this one is heavy. I do like the Penguin Deluxe versions though. ..."I paid $I2.95 for mine new in 1983 :-). And I also just bought the ebook for the sake of convenience. Did you get the epub version from Barnes and Noble? I'm not real thrilled with it as I can't change the font, and the default is annoying.
Moonbutterfly wrote: "I may be stating the obvious, but I found Synopsis and Annotations at the http://www.williamgaddis.org."Thank you for this. It will help me read this book.
I'm gonna be a late starter on this one aswell but will still try to contribute as I go. Looks like I'm going to have to shelf my idea to read V before GR.
Mod
Join in when you can. So far, I'm finding it to be a quick read, and very funny! Recktall Brown?!!?
It's an easy ready so far. I was hoping it would be one of those labyrinthine, symbolic things that you have to figure out. Maybe the pain is in the length?
As I recall, the plotting is The Recognitions is pretty straightforward. It's full of erudite references, but they are done in such a way that most of them don't stop you dead in your tracks if you don't recognize (cough) them right away. I think there is another level to be plumbed by diving into them, though, especially as regards the works of art at the forefront. I'm glad to be reading it in the internet age, where these things can be explored without regular trips to the library if one isn't fully conversant with the history of art, architecture, religion etc...
I'm getting to the art part, which makes it really interesting for me. Aunt May was a gas, though.
I'm planning on reading The Story of Art concurrently, as a reference that can give me some context. For those of you that don't know, it's a classic art history text aimed at those who want to get a broad overview of the subject. I took an art history course in college, but I could use some brushing up. Just wanted to throw that out there in case anyone else finds it useful.
Aloha wrote: "I'm getting to the art part, which makes it really interesting for me. Aunt May was a gas, though."I find Aunt May a "gas" in every sense of the word. She's very well-written but the embodiment of everything that can go wrong with a religious life.
Well, all right-not everything.
So far I'm enjoying it, albeit in a masochistic sort of a way.Unfortunately, I'm not like Jonathan Franzen and able to dedicate eight hours a day to reading this, but while I'm at work I can research it, and that's how I found out about "Fire the Bastards!"
Here's a great article:
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/20...
and the Jack Green review:
http://www.nyx.net/~awestrop/ftb/ftb.htm
Mod
Unfortunately, I'm not like Jonathan Franzen and able to dedicate eight hours a day to reading this, but while I'm at work I can rese..."
Good articles! I remember reading Vineland when it came out in 1990 and the whole Wanda Tinasky conspiracy. It was especially fun because Vineland deals with the whole burned-out but still partying hippie culture of Northern California, where I was living in S.F. at the time. BTW, Vineland is a very funny Pynchon and I would recommend it to his fans.
Also in the Paris Review is this interview with Gaddis - the only lengthy interview he ever gave - from 1987.
http://www.theparisreview.org/intervi...
The characters Esther and Esme were partly based on women Gaddis knew, Helen Parker and Sheri Martinelli respectively:http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognit...
http://www.beatbookcovers.com/kercomp...
HELEN PARKER (1920-1993)
Born in Langford, North Dakota, and grew up in Chicago. Married Thomas Parker, an alto saxophonist in "Happy" Fenton's band, and had two sons. Moved to New York with her sons in 1945 and worked in publishing. Helen was once engaged to the writer John Dos Passos, and knew many other writers including Ernest Hemingway, William Gaddis, Joshua Logan and Thomas Heggen. Mentioned in the book Ross & Tom: Two American Tragedies, by John Leggett. Became the first girlfriend of Allen Ginsberg's, 1951, and later of folksinger "Rambling" Jack Elliott, 1953-54. Died, as Mrs. Helen Jeremiah, in Sarasota, Florida.
= Mary (SU), Mary Palmer (BD), Maria Mancini (VL), Esther (RC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluoz_L...
Mod
http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognit...
..."
The Sheri Martinelli story is pretty intense! The ultimate hip muse...
I love the guide to the Duluoz legend. Makes me want to re-read Kerouac.
Thanks for that, Ian. Now that I'm getting into the Esme part, she can come alive for me in the person of Sheri Martinelli.Ian wrote: "The characters Esther and Esme were partly based on women Gaddis knew, Helen Parker and Sheri Martinelli respectively:
http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognit...
..."
I'm into the Recktall Brown and Wyatt part. Very interesting because I'm familiar with the art world. Wyatt is like a virgin who was into purity until she realized that the world is base and hypocritical, and thus decided to become the best whore in the world. Nihilistic.
The conversation with Basil Valentine is very interesting. This whole thing is kind of Dadaist.
I like what Adeline's dancing partner said, "We have to follow Emerson's advice to treat people as though they were real, because, perhaps they are . . ."This is how I feel he treats his characters. They feel real and current. Perhaps because, wherever and whenever they came from, people are never as exotic or elegant as stories sometimes make them out to be.
The general theme of The Recognitions seem to be a warring of the highest echelon of aesthetics and thought in areas such as the creative crafts and religion, versus the man-made interpretations based on man's limited perceptions, and the salability and manipulation factors. It seems that the more books I read, as I move from genre to genre, I find a dull repetition within a genre, but repetitions that are hits with most people, generating money and fame for the creator. The Twilight series and The Hunger Games series comes to mind. The Harry Potter series, though, is original and whimsical, and spawned a whole bunch of similar types of books. The fact that the popular and money making books are YA says a lot about the type of books most people can comprehend and digest.
I read that Mark Danielewski was offered movies made based on his book, House of Leaves, but only on the sensational horror part of the Navidson project featuring the "haunted" house. He refused.
This made me think of the complexity between being true to oneself, and making money by appealing to the popular trend. The humor in The Recognitions stem from seeing the various people warring with each other in the creative field, the creators who are steadfast in their authenticity, the creators who are willing to cater to the masses to make money or to appeal to them, and the Rectall Browns. There's also great thoughts in the book regarding religion and what people have made of religion.
Aloha wrote: "Books that have strong Christian themes usually turn me off, but I think he's using it to lay down Wyatt's background..."Would you say it has strong Christian themes, or more that it has strong Christian references in order to subvert traditionally Christian themes? That's more how I interpret it....
That's how I interpreted it, too, especially since Aunt May was so limited and rigid in her thinking. Initially, I wasn't sure until I finished the passage. The fact that it was Bosch's fantastic religion-based painting that influenced Wyatt sets the ground work for the conflicts regarding religion and aesthetics.I don't mean religion vs. aesthetics, although there is that, but religion vs. religion, and aesthetics vs. aesthetics.
The passage that contains "mermaids" is telling in its discussion of the representation of God. That reminds me of the Moslem rugs, in which the patterns made are to express their belief that God is the formless and can only be expressed as the formless, and not as an idol.
I would say he's saying that religion at its root was not of the Judeo-Christian flavor that we know today. I think his book is making a strong comment on man's input and distortions of art and religion. On the other hand, we can't have art and religion without man, can we? What is the sound of one hand clapping? LOL.
Mod
What do you mean by "input and distortions"? Art and religion are created by man. Can you cite something in the text about this?
I hope I won't be ruining the enjoyment, but I can site a couple of examples, in which he actually has many implicit examples. He made many commentaries regarding art and religion. Regarding art, there was a passage about whether Hubert Van Eyck's work existed. Some authorities insist that Jan van Eyck never had an older brother. I'm at the point where Wyatt came on a turning point when he realized that the art he was copying is a copy. Regarding religion, there was a discussion, the "mermaid" part I pointed out, about the various images of God, how man's depiction of God always lessens God.
It's ironic that the art that Wyatt copies is of the Germanic and Flemish schools, with its austere religious paintings. That made for some commentaries in the book in how Rectall Brown handled this money maker.
Brain Pain
Books mentioned in this topic
Omensetter's Luck (other topics)House of Leaves (other topics)
The Sound and the Fury (other topics)
The Recognitions (other topics)
Naked Lunch: The Restored Text (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
William S. Burroughs (other topics)Arnold Bennett (other topics)
William Gaddis (other topics)
Also, if you’ve written a review of the book, please post a link to share with the group.