Feb fantasy BotM: The Shadowed Path

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

Congrats to Simon for finally breaking past all the ties and getting the win. We will be discussing The Shadowed Path this month. Enjoy everyone!

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Congrats, Simon!

I'm gonna have to pick up a copy of our book! I just need to get caught up on a couple reviews.

[Lorraine]

Awesome, can't wait to see what you all think of it!

[Alivia]

Congrats, Simon!

[Robert]

Grats Simon! I am struggling for reading time, but will hopefully get to this one some time this month! :)

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

After I finish up the three books I am currently reading I'll be jumping into this one. Hopefully next week.

[Jim]

Having almost finished the book, I'd like to toss out some questions for the author.

1) Where'd you come up with the world setting? (view spoiler)[Romanesque fantasy but not using Roman mythology is definitely a new one on me. I think you may have your own corner of the market on that. Very cool idea! (hide spoiler)]

2) You mentioned to me a while back that it's part of a much longer story. How long's it looking and do you have the other parts written?

That's all I've got at the moment.

Jim

[Simon]

Hi everyone, thanks for choosing my book, this was a bit of a surprise because I've been away from Goodreads for a few weeks, so to come back to this and Lorraine's message in my mail telling me my book's been chosen is great news!

I hope you all enjoy the novel and manage to pick it up. For those of you who really loved it or would rather read a print version I have some print copies I can sign and post out.

Jim, here are your questions answered sir:

1) This story idea morphed a lot over time. The characters, names and places changed quite rapidly early on while I was trying to get a feel for the right type of ambiance I wanted to convey. The prologue (which grounds the novel in the Roman/early iron age setting) was written later on, and the initial chapters edited away from the traditional medieval swords and sorcery setting. For any of you who’ve written novels, you’ll know how fluid they are, so it was an evolution rather than a “eureka” moment.

2) I have the entire story’s arc fleshed out and have scene by scene rundowns of most of it, so I know where I want the story to go and where it will end up, but the details will come in the writing of the novels. As it stands I’d like to fit it all into two more books, so that it will be a traditional trilogy, but if I do that the second and third volumes will be larger than the first.

As to how much I’ve written, I’m about a third of the way through the second book, but I’m behind schedule because of other responsibilities (you know the real life stuff that always gets in the way of the hobby stuff! That, and I’ve been busy with another novel which is complete and doing the rounds with agents.

But book two will for sure be out this year, though with editing and whatnot it probably won’t be until the forth quarter.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Hi Simon - Congrats on getting your book chosen! I have a few books/reviews to finish up and I'll be heading over to Amazon to pick up a copy.

I'm looking foward to reading it!

Big J

[Sky]

Just finished up the book and really enjoyed it. I'll get a review up for you in the near future.

[Simon]

Sky wrote: "Just finished up the book and really enjoyed it. I'll get a review up for you in the near future."

That was fast! Glad you had a good time reading it.

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

I just retrieved my archived copy on my kindle and am planning on getting started during Zoey's nap time today. Hopefully I can sneak a decent chuck of time to read tomorrow at work as well.

What kind of price are you looking at for a signed copy Simon?

[Sky]

Simon wrote: "That was fast! Glad you had a good time reading it."

I have been known to read like the wind from time to time. Plus I'm a big fan of the third person limited point of view with well defined switches.

[Simon]

Scott wrote: "What kind of price are you looking at for a signed copy Simon?"

To buy the first edition tradepaperback from amazon is $16.95. Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Shadowed-Path-S...

But I'd never want to make money on a signature, so I'd be happy with the same price amazon charges plus you pay whatever postage costs depending on your location.

The print version is very nice, and even though I made the map myself I have to brag and say it looks awesome. In fact, while I think about it I will also include a full colour print of the map along with the personalised book.

Sky wrote: "I have been known to read like the wind from time to time. Plus I'm a big fan of the third person limited point of view with well defined switches. "

Me too... although one of these days I really want to try first person.

[Sky]

I did have one question about the book, and this is probably because I'm just anal retentive about continuity, but since I have a degree in math, I think it's allowed.

(view spoiler)[ In the last chapter, which is from Marcus's point of view, he thinks of Sheena/Jinx as Sheena. Up until that point, he had known her only as Jinx. Was this intentional? (hide spoiler)]

Aside from a couple wrong words/typos (I'm fairly sure that Marcus's father was either Jonus or Joanus, not both, but I'm sure to be guilty of worse) and that one sentence that ended before it was finished, that was really my only issue with the book. Thanks again for the good read.

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

Just wondering if you are/were a fan of Dragonlance books Simon. The gladiator at the beginning reminded me a bit of the brutes that were in some of their stories.

[Simon]

Sky:
(view spoiler)[Well spotted, that should have been Jinx not Sheena. I must have missed it and do have a at least a little bit of an excuse. The Sheena/Jinx part of the story was actually a VERY late addition written in to spice up her character and give her a little more depth. She's since become the most enjoyable to write, but it was a hell of a job splicing that into the already finished story!

And the Joanus/Jonus thing, yep, another typo!

Both fixed and submitted for future downloads. (hide spoiler)]

Scott: I did read Dragonlance, they were my very first ever fantasy novels... but that's going back about 20 years now... maybe some residual memories were influencing me there!

[Lorraine]

Just thought I'd pop in to say that if anyone has hacked into their kindle screensaver and wants to add the cover of The Shadowed Path and the map, my (ok not-so-great) versions are available on this thread http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Ok Simon, I just bought you're book. Starting it tonight!

Big J

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

I finished the book up Simon and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm definitely hooked for the next book in the series. The idea of Archwood is pretty awesome as well. It kind of puts me in mind of Guyver armor from that sci-fi/anime series.

[Simon]

Scott wrote: "I finished the book up Simon and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm definitely hooked for the next book in the series. The idea of Archwood is pretty awesome as well. It kind of puts me in mind of Guyv..."

Oh yeah, I loved that! Used to watch the animae cartoons of it!

Glad you liked it. I tried my best to be as original as possible (in story, world and construction of plot), but nothing is really completely original, we all access our own memories and lives when inventing something new.

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

I don't think the armor is unoriginal that is just what popped into my head as I was reading.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Nice! My first Roman-era type book. Liking it so far!

[Sky]

Jeffrey wrote: "Nice! My first Roman-era type book. Liking it so far!"

When you're looking for something new to read, you should check out Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. He may not be indie, but it's a damn fine example of the lost Roman legion genre.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Simon, have you always been interested in Roman history? Your knowledge of all things Roman is coming through loud and clear. I've always enjoyed reading about the Roman empire, but I'll confess to not knowing much about it.

Imagery is amazing! Great job so far!

[Simon]

Jeff: No, I love research and trying my best to get my facts right but I wouldn't be surprised if a real Roman historian could pick more holes in the novel than Swiss cheese. While I did my best, I wasn't going for historical accuracy (obviously, it's fantasy!), just enough Romanesque depictions to convey the setting.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

It was enough to fool me. Great job!

[Simon]

On the other hand my latest novel, a romantic thriller with a lot of 20th century history and science, was a huge project that took about three times as much time to research than it did to write. But then that's set in the real world. In my limited experience so far, contemporary genre fiction is much more difficult to write than fantasy, not in terms of the prose and characters and plot, but having to get all your details bang on.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Understandable. You, as the author, want to come off as an expert, thereby immersing the reader so deeply into the book that they are scrambling to turn the next page. That definitely comes across in Shadowed Land. Hell, I thought you were a Roman History buff. :)

Good job on the details!

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

The Shadowlands. Apparently it grows/expands in the book. Where did you come up with that?

The first thing I thought of was The NeverEnding Story, and the Nothing.

[Simon]

The Shadowland/Everdark/Xore's Garden, the reason it exists, how it began and by whom, and the reason it is expanding is actually fundamental to the overall story, it's the big picture that's only really hinted at in the first novel but becomes increasingly part of the plot in subsequent books.

How it came about? That's a hard one to pin down. Maybe there was some subliminal NeverEnding Story in there, who knows? I think the concept evolved, but there was probably some Mirkwood behind there, and some of the Labrynth from the Deathgate Cycle books if you're familiar with those.

Actually I got the basic idea of the Inhumanii from an amalgam of the tattoo covered Patryn, Haplo, from the Deathgate cycle books, and the faint blue skin, white hair of Chiana from Farscape.

I'm putting together a video trailer for the book right now which includes a few cuts of Chiana to dipict the Chieftan's Daughter. I'll post a link when I'm done.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

However you got it, I loved the word "inhumanii". Invokes all kinds of images in my head. Nicely done there!

I just like the idea of that Shadowland/Everdark/Xore's Garden was constantly growing. It just sounds sinister. Makes you wonder who (or what) is behind it right from the beginning.

Yeah, let us know when you have the video trailer posted online. I know I'd be interested in seeing it!

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

Deathgate Cycle is a good series for sure. I hadn't made the connection, but I can see the similarities now that you pointed in out. Now I want to read the series again.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Hmmm, haven't read that series. Will have to look it up!

[Simon]

I'd be scared to re-read that series (even though I have the books!) because of the nostalga I have for it (read it when I was in my teens). My memories of it may be better than the reality. It certainly was when I re-read the Dragonlance books a few years ago. But there were some fantastic storyline ideas in the Deathgate Cycle.

(view spoiler)[
Like how carefully they inserted Haplo into the first novel, making you think Hugh the Hand was the main character, and then what they did with Hugh at the book's end. The whole tattoo magic and dog connection was cool too.
(hide spoiler)]

[Pauline]

I've had 'The Shadowed Path' on my to-read shelf for months, but this group read inspired me to get started. I really enjoyed almost all of it, but then the ending just fell apart for me, which was a shame. But - there's some terrific ideas in there (Shadowland itself, the inhumanii), it all seemed very original to me. And a nice change not to be mired in the middle ages :-)

Simon, if you are still able to make changes, I have a list of typos and such like if you are interested (I've finally discovered how to work the Kindle highlighting thingy and extract a useable list - go me!).

I'd post a link to my review if I had a clue how to do that...

[Simon]

Very interested in any typos and any ideas you might have, good thing about publishing to kindle and createspace is I can submit changes easily.

What didn't you like about the ending? If it's too full of spoilers feel free to message me about it or hide them.

EDIT: I've just seen your review, which is excellent and very thorough, and you explain the pros and cons well. In fact I'm copy/pasting that to my notes for the rest of the series as there are aspects I want to make sure I bring out fully (the Sul empire for example and some extra detail there).

As to the ending, it was an issue for me because I was very much aware this is NOT a stand-alone novel in the way some books in a series can be, it flows right into book two and the reality is the first and second books are very much one larger book, and the same will probably be true for the final one.

You could argue (and perhaps rightly) that each novel should have a distinct and satisfying ending on its own. In my defence all I can say is hey, this is the first novel I've ever written and there are plenty of other series books that have to be taken as a whole.

As to the typos, do let me know about them all. I've already changed the Joanus, Jonus and a few others. I will change the couple you mention in your review tonight.

[Simon]

Okay Pauline, just finished reading the Spoiler section of your issues with the ending. It's a shame you felt those things were issues, and for some of those issues the sequel will actually resolve them. That said, no-one can please everyone!

(view spoiler)[
You say:
"Well, first of all, there's this invasion of strange northern barbarians, who have apparently travelled the length and breadth of the continent to trash a random Prastian city. Well, fine. I can buy that, I suppose. Even though they've hardly merited a mention beforehand. Even though it makes no real sense. Whatever. This is fantasy, after all."

The Wurs were mentioned a few times in the novel as giant barbarians of the north that occasionally raid the south. On this occasion they spent years building up and joining their tribes together for a huge raid. They didn't travel the breadth of the country, but did travel very far southward. They took HUGE losses and only suvived thanks to meeting Ahax. They trash that city because at that point they have no choice. That's all mentioned, but if I didn't pre-empt it well enough that's obviously my fault.

You said:
"And then there's Evrethia. She's the one who arranged for Marcus to go on his ill-fated jaunt into Shadowland, the one he spent years planning revenge on, the one who (he has discovered) has taken all his father's money and left him to die in squalor, the one Marcus himself has travelled for weeks to catch up with. And finally he does. And the conversation goes something like this:
Marcus (brandishing large dagger): I hate you, you stole my money and killed my father, and now I want my revenge!
Evrethia: Yes, SO sorry about all that. My father made me do it.
Marcus (putting dagger away): Oh. Well, that's all right then.
W-e-e-e-l-l. OK. I suppose. Whatever."

That made me laugh. When you put it like that, sure, it's a little nuts. Here's the thing: Marcus is NOT Lokan or Tyacles, he's not a selfish, arrogant guy with a corrupted heart, he's a genuinely decent guy who's damaged, know's he's damaged, and is trying really heard not to be more so and change. That, along with the fact he was never bothered about the money, or even that much about this father, and that Evrethia is genuine in both her explanation and emotion, decides it for him. Again, maybe the fault lies in how I wrote the section.

You say:
"And finally, we have Marcus traipsing off into Shadowland, the one place in the world he never wants to see again. Why? Because the women need rescuing from the barbarians. Which women? The one who tried to kill him in the night, and the one who stole his money, killed his father, etc, etc. Now, Marcus is the guy who's been through so much in Shadowland that he is completely passive, uncaring, devoid of feeling. This has been underscored for the entire book, it's his defining characteristic. And suddenly he cares enough to go to the rescue? And for these two women, of all the women in the world? It's bad enough to resort to the women in peril routine as motivation at all, but for these two, it would be much more believable for Marcus to say - screw them, the barbarians can have them."

Absolutely. It's weird isn't it? Why would Marcus go back in there? I can assure you, he might be thinking it's because he's going after the women, and perhaps there's a bit of him that genuinely wants to save them/help them. (Because, honestly, those giant Wurs are not people you'd want your worst enemy to be at the mercy of.) But actually it's WAY deeper than that and is closely related to the reason Parellio is following Marcus.

You say:
"Now I suppose, if I'm being fair, this is all to show that Marcus isn't, in fact, the emotionless character he's been portrayed as, that a beautiful woman or two (even women who try to kill or cheat him) have the power to soften that iron heart of his, and if that works for you, that's fine. It just didn't work for me, it was too abrupt a change. And I would love it, actually, if Sheena/Jinx and Evrethia were to extricate themselves from their captivity, pulp a few barbarians and turn up, bright-eyed and bushy tailed, to greet Marcus before he's gone ten paces into Shadowland, but somehow I don't see that happening"

I've written beyond this point already. I don't want to give away too much, but let's just say who the rescuer is and who needs rescuing between Marcus and the women isn't what it appears to be at the end of the first book.
(hide spoiler)]

[Pauline]

Simon wrote: "You could argue (and perhaps rightly) that each novel should have a distinct and satisfying ending on its own. In my defence all I can say is hey, this is the first novel I've ever written and there are plenty of other series books that have to be taken as a whole."

No, it's not a problem at all that it didn't have a distinct ending - there was a certain amount of resolution, and then all the various strands were clearly leading on into the next book, which is fine. All fantasy authors have this same problem, it's a very rare story that lends itself to three neatly defined sections.

I've explained my issues with the ending in my review, so I won't rehash them here, but I really, really disliked those two women. I hope you're going to make them more likeable in the rest of the series. Or you could have them die horribly, I suppose ;-)

I'll send you the typos by private message.

[Simon]

Hmmm... I wasn't really going for "likeable" at any point for any character at all! We'll see!

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

I loved that bit about (view spoiler)[ Jinx wanting to end Marcus' life 'cause in her demented way, that's what Sheena convinces her to do. Then after she's unable to do it, she realizes that even if she were to have gone through with it, she wouldn't have been able to kill him 'cause her skills with a weapon (& fighting) simply pale in comparison. I just loved reading about Jinx's realization that maybe that wasn't the smartest move to make and she's not nearly as invincible as she makes herself out to be. (hide spoiler)]

It made me laugh! She so deserved it!! :)

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Just finished it last night. Sorry it took so long. Been battling the mother of all colds/coughs. Ick. Anyway, I think I'm finally winning the battle.

Ok. That being said, Simon, nice job! I don't think I've ever read a Roman fantasy before, but I definitely would again in a heartbeat!

I did forsee Marcus admitting to himself (view spoiler)[that Evrethia (sp?) was the closest thing to family he had left and therefore wanted to try and protect her. Hence his willingness to reenter the Shadowlands. Jinx's character annoyed me. I find it a little hard to believe that this girl who is so frightened and scared of the world, has led a very sheltered life, can suddenly create/assume an identity completely the opposite. But then again, that's probably how split personalities are created. Psychology was one subject I hated with a passion in college, so I won't even begin to try and understand it.

Do you go more into Tyocles and why he hates the inhumanii in the next book? He was a little bit of a mystery to me. He starts out as a fat merchant, clearly enjoying a rich man's life, then becomes lost in the Shadowlands with Marcus and Loke. I had no problems with the three of them coming out as lean, mean, fighting machines and probably closer than any blood relatives ever could be. Then near the end, as Tyocles is "interrogating" the female inhumanii, he's suddenly brutal beyond compare. It's mentioned a few times that he doesn't like the inhumanii, and yes, because of Ahax they were stranded in the SL, but still, Marcus and Loke weren't like that. Just wondering. :) (hide spoiler)]

I really liked the story! Can't wait for the 2nd! When's it gonna be ready??

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

By the way, I posted my review on:

Amazon, Amazon UK, Apple's iBooks, Barnes & Noble, GoodReads, Shelfari, and Smashwords. I'll keep an eye on Smashwords. Usually reviews appear instantly and it hasn't yet. If I have to repost it, I will.

Big J

[Simon]

Glad you liked it Jeff, and thanks for posting the review everywhere. (view spoiler)[Glad you could see some of the reasons why Marcus wanted to look after Evrethia. As to the Jinx persona and the massive differences between her and Sheena, I agree they are worlds apart. I'm not going to go into any detail and spoil later parts of the story, but I would say that her character and the reasons for her split personality aren't as simple as one traumatic event. You'll have to wait and see why though! (hide spoiler)]

And in other news my trailer for the book is almost finished. I'll post it up soon and link it here!

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Nice! Please do! Speaking for myself and a few other old farts out there, I can always use a reminder when a book I've been waiting for comes out!

I'll be on the lookout for it!

[Lorraine]

Glad to see other readers liked the book :)

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Hi Lorraine! Yeah, I really did. I actually thought Simon might have been a Roman history buff or something. Nope, he tells me he did his research. Quite effectively, if you ask me. :)

[Lorraine]

Yea Jeffrey, I am not really keen on fantasy, because I find it hard to get into a whole new world, but everything is so well described that I didn't have to do a lot of work myself and found it quite easy to get into it :)

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Couldn't agree more! Very vivid imagery. Kept thinking I was reading about a twisted Gladiator. :) But twisted in a good way. Well, kinda. The Shadowlands reminded me a little of (view spoiler)[the Nothing from that 80s movie, Neverending Story! (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

True :) much prefer adult characters though !