You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
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One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
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One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
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Janice, Moderator
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Jan 30, 2012 08:04AM
I'm going to read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest for the February challenge (Let's go to the Movies) and for the Classics Clean up. Does anyone want to join me? We'll start reading February 5th.
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Ooops, I've jumped the gun and started reading this so that I can apply it to the Grandfather award. I'll put it aside until Saturday.
Is everyone raring to get discussing this book? How do we want to approach it? We could just leave it wide open to discuss at will. Or we could structure it somehow.Has anyone seen the movie? I saw it years ago and loved it. I think I also read the book sometime after I saw the movie, but I'm not sure. I keep visualizing the actors when I read the dialogue.
I also saw the movie years ago. But I never read the book. I have started the book now on audio. I love it. I don't really know how to structure it. Not sure if anyone else is reading it. Janet, how far are you in the book?
Janice wrote: "Is everyone raring to get discussing this book? How do we want to approach it? We could just leave it wide open to discuss at will. Or we could structure it somehow.Has anyone seen the movie? ..."
I haven't but I've heard it wa really good. I'll be reading this one soon I hope.
Anne wrote: "I also saw the movie years ago. But I never read the book. I have started the book now on audio. I love it. I don't really know how to structure it. Not sure if anyone else is reading it. Jan..."I presume you mean me? Janice? :)
I'm not far into it - about 1/5th. McMurphy has arrived at the hospital and introduced himself.
How far are you, Anne? Who is the narrator of the audiobook?
I have seen the movie a few years back too, never got to read it though.
Janice wrote: "Anne wrote: "I also saw the movie years ago. But I never read the book. I have started the book now on audio. I love it. I don't really know how to structure it. Not sure if anyone else is rea..."I'm further along, but only by about 1 1/2 hours listening time. You couldn't have read too much if McMurphy just arrived. That's near the beginning of the book. Anyway, Tom Parker is narrating and he's excellent - great with the different voices. Every time he does McMurphy is can picture Jack Nicholson. Perfect!
Are you listening to the unabridged version? I went onto Audible.com and here in Canada they just had the abridged audiobook narrated by Kesey himself.
I know. I saw that on Audible. The same thing here in the U.S.. I'm listening to an unabridged version from my library. It's 8 + hours.
I'm going to get dressed, tidy up the kitchen and bathroom, and I'll be back raring to read! :)
Bathroom done, to heck with the kitchen. It can wait a little longer. I'm diving in... a bit too early for the wine yet.
I had a small lunch break, and now I'm ready to get back to reading. I'm at the part after McMurphy's first group therapy session.I loved this quote (view spoiler)
I can hear Jack Nicholson so clearly saying that! LOL!
I don't remember the ending of the movie at all. I remember bits and pieces, so it's almost as if I don't know the story.
I loved that too. Can't you just see and hear JN? That's just a great part. Whenever McMurphy is "on stage" the book comes alive. Tell me when you've finished with the next part. It's floor-rolling material.Luckily, I don't remember the ending either.
Anne wrote: "I loved that too. Can't you just see and hear JN? That's just a great part. Whenever McMurphy is "on stage" the book comes alive. Tell me when you've finished with the next part. It's floor-..."Do you mean the Chief's dream that the floors were mechanically moved at night? I found that part to be a bit confusing and I'm not sure how it fits. Maybe I'll find out later on.
No, not that part - it's confusing because it's crazy - his brain's been fried, I think. The part I mean is when "the rules" are explained to McMurphy and he responds.
It's interesting how the Chief always interprets things as if they were all a part of the workings of machinery. Even the little red pill was full of gears and machine parts.I've just read the part when McMurphy comes out of the latrine and has an encounter with Nurse Ratchet about wearing the greens. LOL!
Are you futher along?
I'm not sure, but I think so. The part I mentioned in message 19 - does that sound familiar?
Janice wrote: "It's interesting how the Chief always interprets things as if they were all a part of the workings of machinery. Even the little red pill was full of gears and machine parts.I've just read the p..."
You mean when McMurphy isn't wearing greens? Just heard that part.
Anne wrote: "I'm not sure, but I think so. The part I mentioned in message 19 - does that sound familiar?"Ahh, not really. Did I miss something? Do you mean part where he says "Ya know, ma'am... that is the ex-act thing somebody always tells me about the rules... just when they figure I'm about to the the dead opposite."
Okay, let me be more clear. One on the patients is telling him about the rules and what happens if you break them, including ECT. There's a lot of talk and reference to being emasculated. That section ends with McMurphy betting them that within one week he can "get" Nurse Rachet without any punishment.
Oooooh - that part! Where they were likening themselves to rabbits. Yeah, that was pretty good. It's interesting how aware they are of their own reasonings.So, if the Chief is narrating this and he's clearly delusional and has hallucinations, how much of his telling of the story is part of his pyschosis?
I don't know. I don't know if he's psychotic all the time. My guess is that he's perfectly okay while he's narrating this story. I'm also guessing that most of the patients are "okay," but are in thrall to the institution and Nurse Ratchett and that McMurphy will show them that in the end. Just a guess.
I just got to thinking - what if? LOL! Okay, I'm headed back to the book. I'm almost halfway. It seems that the 2nd half of a book goes faster than the first half.
Anne wrote: "What if what?"What if the story was born out of his pyschosis? But it's just a passing thought.
I just finished Part 2 and about to start Part 3. Have you been listening all day, Anne?
I've been listening on and off today. Not all day. I'm only about half-way through. It's difficult to compare where you are to where I am. Mine is in 8 parts and I'm on part 5.
I'm on page 551 of 892 according to the ebook version I'm reading.
I finished it and have a theory about the Chief's interest in all things mechanical.This was such a good read. I had completely forgotten the end of the story. I'm looking forward to others' thoughts about the book once they finish it.
I have one hour of listening time left. I'll get that done this morning.
What? No don't finish, I haven't even started yet. This is a disadvantage of multiple buddy reads.
Oh, Pragya. Sorry. I haven't finished yet, but will at some point soon. How many buddy reads are you doing?
3! I just finished reading Of Mice and Men with Judy and Mikki. I have this one and the Jane Eyre one to start.Well, of course, I can't stop you from finishing, go right ahead. :D
I just hope you hop in once I am finished to discuss it a bit with me. :)
Pragya wrote: "3! I just finished reading Of Mice and Men with Judy and Mikki. I have this one and the Jane Eyre one to start.Well, of course, I can't stop you from finishing, go right ahead. :D
I j..."
Sure, I'll hop in. :)
I'll be hanging around for your comments Pragya - no worries!
Thanks Anne and Janice. :)
We're not going anywhere, Pragya. I still haven't finished the last hour of the book - hectic morning. I'll be glad to discuss the book whenever you want as long as my memory holds out. :)
Do you want us to wait, Pragya? Or shall we go ahead with the discussion and you can jump in when you're done?I've searched out some questions on the net and I think we can have a wonderful discussion.
We may as well plow ahead, Anne. Pragya can catch up when she's ready.Who wins the battle in the end – Nurse Ratched or McMurphy?
I was asking myself that same question after I finished the book. Then, when I looked on the net for questions, I was surprised to see it as a discussion question.
(view spoiler)
There was one thing I was wondering about. Would a nurse have that much influence over the treatment given to a patient(EST or lobotomy)? I think Ken Kesey gave her way too much power. That may have had more to do with his viewpoint of women than the professional responsibilities of a nurse. He wrote several sections about women castrating men, demasculating them.
Yes, please go ahead, Janice. I'm stuck with too many things at the moment.
Janice wrote: "We may as well plow ahead, Anne. Pragya can catch up when she's ready.Who wins the battle in the end – Nurse Ratched or McMurphy?
I think that they both lost. In the end, McMurphy was lobotomized and The Chief killed him so that he wouldn't have to go on living like that. True, he never gave in to Nurse Ratched and even accosted her - but he paid a very high price for that. Nurse Ratched lost control over the ward and lost many patients. That was a plus for everyone else.
Re: Nurse Ratched's power, I think she represents psychiatric nurses, in general, as well as "the mental health system. In giving Nurse Ratched so much power Kesey's point is that "treatment" was often used as punishment or for the sake of controlling patients, whether is was in the patient's best interests or not. Having a quiet ward with patients who didn't cause trouble was the aim.
From my experience working on psychiatric wards, the nurses are the ones with the real power. They are with the patients 24/7 (in shifts), while the doctors come and go, an hour hear and there. When there is any kind of an emergency, it's the nurses who have to manage. Yes, they often have to get a doctor's approval, but in some hospitals, and probably in the one Kesey worked in, that would entail one phone call to a doctor. The doctor in this book (I forget his name) went along with Nurse Ratched or gave in to her fairly easily. Another emasculated male.
Janice wrote: "We may as well plow ahead, Anne. Pragya can catch up when she's ready.Who wins the battle in the end – Nurse Ratched or McMurphy?
I think that they both lost. In the end, McMurphy was lobotomized and The Chief killed him so that he wouldn't have to go on living like that. True, he never gave in to Nurse Ratched and even accosted her - but he paid a very high price for that. Nurse Ratched lost control over the ward and lost many patients. That was a plus for everyone else.
Re: Nurse Ratched's power, I think she represents psychiatric nurses, in general, as well as "the mental health system. In giving Nurse Ratched so much power Kesey's point is that "treatment" was often used as punishment or for the sake of controlling patients, whether is was in the patient's best interests or not. Having a quiet ward with patients who didn't cause trouble was the aim.
From my experience working on psychiatric wards, the nurses are the ones with the real power. They are with the patients 24/7 (in shifts), while the doctors come and go, an hour hear and there. When there is any kind of an emergency, it's the nurses who have to manage. Yes, they often have to get a doctor's approval, but in some hospitals, and probably in the one Kesey worked in, that would entail one phone call to a doctor. The doctor in this book (I forget his name) went along with Nurse Ratched or gave in to her fairly easily. Another emasculated male.
Yes, they often have to get a doctor's approval, but in some hospitals, and probably in the one Kesey worked in, that would entail one phone call to a doctor. The doctor in this book (I forget his name) went along with Nurse Ratched or gave in to her fairly easily. Another emasculated male.I did consider that the doctor would have been fairly easy to manipulate. Nurse Ratchet was masterful at manipulation and wouldn't have had any trouble convincing him.
Are you a nurse, Anne?
Oh, another thought about who won/lost. Although Nurse Ratchet did lose control of the ward and patients as a result, I think she would recover and would soon have a new flock to manipulate. Chief Broom was cognizant of that too, which was why he killed Mack.
Janice, I'm a psychologist. Hmm, my understanding was that Chief Broom killed Mack so that he wouldn't have to live with a lobotomy - that he knew Mack would hate living like that. But you're right, if Nurse Ratchet were still around he would be under her complete control and he wouldn't even have the ability to request a transfer.
I remember reading in the book that Chief Broom didn't want Mack to be her example of what will happen to you if you don't conform. True, he knew that Mack wouldn't want to live like that. How ill was Nurse Ratchet?
Janice wrote: "How ill was Nurse Ratchet?"Good question. Very, IMO. Sadistic control freak. You'd be amazed at how many there are working in psychiatric hospitals.
You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
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