Name order for Asian language books

[図書館屋 Sharon the Librarian]

I am beginning to input my Japanese language collection of children's and YA books that I hope to recommend to other Japanese language learners. The English centric system of putting First_Name Family_Name doesn't work for Japanese. The records that are already in the database using Japanese format (per title page) are Family_Name First_Name and then end up reversed in the reading Lists. Trying to put them in following English procedure leaves the cover and metadata page looking funny. Is there a way to override the order?

[Paula]

All books should be entered with author First name, last name. That is how the db is set up with the supporting code to display names in the appropriate places.

If you change the order on the author profile the display code has no idea that you have done this since it is not expecting it to occur.

[図書館屋 Sharon the Librarian]

Thanks, it looks artificial in the book description section, but better in the lists. I will also add covers so that people can confirm the 'correct order' for Japanese.

[[deleted user]]

It also makes it easier to combine editions that way. I've been rescuing manga, and trying to get all editions under one author.

I'm learning Japanese, so I will be checking your bookshelves!

{p.s. Your profile is private, so I can't take a look.}

[図書館屋 Sharon the Librarian]

Ah, come and join us at Rakudokukai 楽読会 (raku means both fun and easy and dokukai is reading group), that is where we will be adding most of the books. In the meantime, I'll do something with my profile.

[[deleted user]]

ありがとうございます、 図書館屋さん！

I'm just a beginner. :)

[Kaz]

WeaselBox wrote: "There's also the issue of putting a space between the names. That's not normal in Japanese or Chinese. There is a discussion on another thread somewhere, that suggests the "official" way to do th..."

I have rescued some Japanese books to protect them on my bookshelf, and this is my first time to do "adding and editing" books, especially in Japanese. Since I have moving scheduled tomorrow and don't really have time, I hurriedly did it, and now I wonder if I did correctly regarding the authors name.

Some of my Japanese books seem merged with other English edition, and they showed their title and author name in English. As Japanese, it is confusing. I mean when I see the author's name in Japanese, I usually assume the books are written in Japanese. If the title appears in French or Spanish, I assume they are translated in those languages. So, entering the name in Japanese, to me, is important part to distinguish my Japanese books.

I entered some John Grisham's books translated and as well as books by 京極夏彦 (Natushiko Kyogoku), all in Japanese because they are in Japanese language. I would like to know if 1) I should add their name in English as author, and 2) it was okay to add a space between the last name and first name in Japanese written author's name. Adding a space was so much extra work, but I did it as other books shown. Now it seems I did wrong....?

*Okay, now I need to do packing and cleaning house for "house move" LOL!

[Paula]

If a book has been translated i.e. the John Grisham example the english name should be in the primary author position, you can put the Japanese name in the secondary position. The rest of the book info (except for format) can be in the language of the edit.

(Format is now a filter on the editions page, so if the standard formats are not used it is not possible to filter editions)

This allows a) the books to be combined with the appropriate editions, b) do a search in japanese for the title and author.

Author names should be firstname space lastname

[Kaz]

I just looked my bookshelf for Natushiko Kyogoku,　京極夏彦; his last name is "Kyogoku" and first name is "Natsuhiko". In my personal opinion, it looks kind of... "doesn't quite make sense" to me.

In the new data, the author name in Japanese appears "first name", "last name". It is odd and unnatural in Japanese, but if that's what GR would like to do, I'll understand.

Now, some editions are appeared in English for both title and author. The author name in English appears "last name", "first name". It looks like this is the way to shows authors' name from now on. If so, why they messed up the order in Japanese to "first name", "last name"??? In English, it shows "Kyogoku, Natsuhiko", and then Japanese shows "Natsuhiko, Kyogoku". The same goes to Murakami and Mishima. It is strange to me...

Well, at least the data are still there, and titles and names are correct:) It just looks unnatural in Japanese...

[Paula]

On the book shelves author name is displayed by the code

Smith, John (Lastname First name)

(the code takes the name John Smith and changes the placement for display purposes)

When entering author name either on the author profile or book the author name is entered Firstname Lastname.

If it is entered Smith John on the author profile, then on the book page it will display John Smith because the code thinks that John is the lastname and smith the firstname

[Paula]

All that is much more a feedback group item, you should post there.

[vicki_girl]

In my opinion I think the best solution would be something like this: For the angilized version of the name put FirstName Lastname (with a space). For original language put LastnameFirstname (no space). That way everything looks correct throughout the site (the system thinks that LastnameFirstname without a space is one word and does not try to rearrange it).

Also, for a book that is only available in Japanese, then only the Japanese name should be listed. For books that have been translated into English, all editions (even the original Japanese) should have the Anglicized name first and the Japanese second. While this is not a perfect solution it is the best we can do in order to combine the books properly. Eventually we will have away to associate different spellings/ways of writing the same name, but that may be a while.

I remember this being discussed in another thread also, as Weaselbox stated. I'll see if I can find it.

[[deleted user]]

I remember the discussion, too. I think rivka was involved in the discussion, too.

[vicki_girl]

After searching the discussions threads, the polices are still a little sketchy.

One item that is clear: If the book has been translated into English, the English version of the name should be listed first, as FirstName Lastname (with a space). The version of the name from the original language should be second.

However, it is less clear to me what the conclusions were regarding what the format of the non-English names should be.

For the time being, I would say rescue books using the format you are most comfortable with. They can be cleaned up later after Feb 1.

[mlady_rebecca]

WeaselBox wrote: "Of course I expect it to be ignored like everything else, or at best get random pronouncements from people who aren't goodreads staff claiming their statements represent policy with nothing to back it up. That's not aimed at you by the way, I'm just frustrated with how often something which seems to call for an official decision is met with the chirping of crickets around here. "

Users answer questions on the Feedback board, because that's the culture Goodreads has. The staff fully supports that idea.

This issue itself has been brought up before. It's on their "to do" list. They've said that. There really isn't anything else the staff needs to say.

If the staff took the time to answer every question and suggestion, they'd never get anything done. First off, because they have a very small staff. Second off, because questions and suggestions are made over and over again, even when they've been answered definitively in the past.

If you want to talk to a staff member, and only a staff member, use support@goodreads.com.

Please don't insult the volunteers that help keep the site running smoothly.

[Kaz]

I feel bad to find heated discussions after my posting here. As a member of GR, I very much appreciate the all works that staffs are doing for us. The volume of those works is unimaginable to me.

I merely wanted to know what I did for book data editing was alright (or not), and I also wanted to know how it was supposed to be and how authors name would appear from now on. The bottom line is that my Japanese books are still on my bookshelf, which is great! (However, my rated-book counts went down that tells me I might had lost some English books. I don't know which ones, but I am going to compare with my backup list after my moving.)

Thank you so much for working with this tight deadline set by Amazon. This event reminded me of the dedications and great works of GR staffs again. Thanks.

[[deleted user]]

I think at some point GR staff should, and hopefully, will put a section in the Librarians manual dealing specifically with this issue. It is frustrating to keep asking for things, over and over, again. Hopefully, when all the dust settles from this amazon thing, we can get this resolved and put into the manual. I have that feeling that goodreads does intend to be responsive to issues involving non-English language books.

[mlady_rebecca]

WeaselBox wrote: "While I'm here, by "this issue" are you referring to the name order problem? Can you link to somewhere they've said it's on the "to do" list, because I can't find it anywhere."

By "this issue" I mean both "sort by" author and the aka feature.

"Sort by" author is adding a "sort by" author field just like we have a "sort by" title field. The main focus has been on compound last names or people with things like Jr. at the end of their names. But I imagine it could also help with the fact that Japanese names are last name/ first name.

Kara commented on "sort by" author here:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

The aka feature is a way to have one author profile with multiple pen names, or the same author name in multiple languages.

Michael and Rivka both commented on the aka feature here:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/4...