Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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Why don't more people read Self-published authors?
Alexandra wrote: "Alicia wrote: "I should think satisfying the reader is the primary aim of putting something on the market."Because you've got common sense.
There's a whole host of SPAs who don't care one iota a..."
Alexandra, you always seem to put up good comments. Keep it up! And why would an author not give a darned about satisfying readers? Why else would authors even write? And because you want to satisfy readers is why one needs to make sure the mechanics of the book are correct. I am both a self-published author (my company is omegabooks since 1995) and indie published author (Lulu, 2019).
I noticed an Israeli author on here. It was an Israeli author (Barry Chamish and his book, "Who Murdered Yitzhak Rabin?") that introduced me to Lulu.
Deborah wrote: "Alexandra, you always seem to put up good comments. Keep it up! "Thank you :D
Alexandra wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Alexandra, you always seem to put up good comments. Keep it up! "Thank you :D"
You are most welcome!
Jennifer wrote: ""Yes, a lack of reviews will hurt you, but so will having mostly “in exchange for an honest-review” reviews. We KNOW they are likely exaggerated (the psychology of this is quite simple: expectation for a good review is implicit in the “free” copy)..."I know this post was quite old, but Jennifer's words here are why a lot of reviewers shy away from taking free copies in exchange for reviews. Exactly this reason because authors feel that a good review is implicit.
I have only recently started getting back into reviewing for that problem. I get a lot of free copies, but when I say an honest opinion I mean it literally. I have given out plenty of 1 or 2 star reviews for books I got a free copy of. And I've had authors harass me in my comment section about it, email me personally, ask all their little reader minions to come harass me. One small imprint published author got so bad I had to go to his publisher and say "look, you get your author under control or I'm never reviewing ANYTHING from your company again." So I stepped away for years. Now I'm slowly venturing into the fray and hoping that people have stopped being so defensive about their work. We shall see, but yes every author needs to read that post and take it to heart.
One of my favorite authors in the world made his name by self publishing, so I certainly have no personal feelings about SPAs in general but you need to put forth a work that makes it easy to love.
Excuse me, but could we tone down this discussion a bit? I understand that some readers have been bitten by a few disrespectful SPAs, but those are not in the majority, far from it. Some of the comments on this thread verge on the hystrionic.
Michel wrote: "Excuse me, but could we tone down this discussion a bit? I understand that some readers have been bitten by a few disrespectful SPAs, but those are not in the majority, far from it. Some of the com..."Where do you come up with the assertion that it’s “far from” a majority? I sure know many don’t behave like this, but sadly so many have, and do, that it’s damaged the reputation of selfpubbed books overall
It's shocking to me that this issue of sock puppets/trolling/review complaints continues as it was 5 or 6 years ago when I was an active author. I'm returning now saddened by the news. In my old age I would be happy for any thoughtful review.To give my opinion on the central question -
For the most part people read what they are told to read. If the self-published author has a large advertising budget and or great determination they can begin to 'tell people' to read their book.
The second main issue is quality. I feel this applies to all books. It takes a lot for a story to grab my interest, and I don't think there is much distinction there between large and self.
Vanessa wrote: "For the most part people read what they are told to read. If the self-published author has a large advertising budget and or great determination they can begin to 'tell people' to read their book..."
I am not sure that I would agree with that. You should give more credit to readers and I believe that they are on the whole more selective about what they read/want to read and are not simple puppets for authors. When I read a book, I do it because it interests me, not because somebody told me to read it (unless it is work-related and the boss says that you need to read it, of course).
I am not sure that I would agree with that. You should give more credit to readers and I believe that they are on the whole more selective about what they read/want to read and are not simple puppets for authors. When I read a book, I do it because it interests me, not because somebody told me to read it (unless it is work-related and the boss says that you need to read it, of course).
Vanessa wrote: "It's shocking to me that this issue of sock puppets/trolling/review complaints continues as it was 5 or 6 years ago when I was an active author. I'm returning now saddened by the news. In my old ag..."I can only conclude you don’t know many habitual readers.
I was afraid that would come off badly. But I stick by it to an extent. I would say we are all puppets to corporate advertising and not very much to authors (except for a small handful with millions of fans). eh, I better back away carefully before I get into trouble.
Let's remember that there are plenty of poorly behaving trad published authors out there, too. Childish behavior is not an indicator of self-publishing, just like trad publishing is not an indicator of quality. I can certainly see how reviewers would frequently find themselves the target of such behavior from ill-behaved indies, as such authors don't have an organization to isolate them from the reviewers or the reviews in the same way traditionally published authors do. Perhaps someone needs to create a Reviewer Beware site to out these persons on their bad behavior.Then again, a site like Goodreads is intended to reward good behavior. If an author writes a good book, publishes it in a professional manner, and conducts themselves likewise, then theoretically, their books should be recommended and shared and rise along with similar traditionally published works.
Except the trads have a huge advantage: marketing dollars. People don't read trad books because they are better, they read them because they know they exist. A publishing house can advertise much more effectively than a lone author working out of their bedroom. For an indie, obscurity is the enemy.
Alexandra wrote: "Vanessa wrote: "It's shocking to me that this issue of sock puppets/trolling/review complaints continues as it was 5 or 6 years ago when I was an active author. I'm returning now saddened by the ne..."I'm not sure if I know many habitual readers - nor what that has to do with the discussion. As I said, I've been out of the review game for over 5 years so I was just expressing sadness that the review game is still difficult and annoying.
Vanessa wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Vanessa wrote: "It's shocking to me that this issue of sock puppets/trolling/review complaints continues as it was 5 or 6 years ago when I was an active author. I'm returning now ..."You stated people just read what they’re told to read. Presuming you don’t know many habitual readers was the kindest of possible reason for such a belief that I could think of.
Doc wrote: "Let's remember that there are plenty of poorly behaving trad published authors out there, too. Childish behavior is not an indicator of self-publishing, just like trad publishing is not an indicato..."Hahaha.
For every badly behaving trade pub author out there, there are a thousand self pubbed ones.
Sure, there are a few, but they are extremely rare. Unlike those in self-pubbing, where they are very easy to run into.
The Just-About-Cocky Ms M wrote: "there are still enough butt-hurt SPAs with their flocks of minions poised and ready to attack reviewers whose honest reviews do not laud their books."I just want to know where these flocks of minions come from and how I can get me some! Just kidding. Trying to lighten the mood a little.
There's nothing I can say here that hasn't already been said in the last 2,300 posts. There is definitely an issue of quality of writing as well as people looking for self-gratification. Self-publishing, while a great tool for some (or many), removes the standard filter that the traditional publisher and literary agencies normally sift through.
The Just-About-Cocky Ms M wrote: "Unfortunately, Stefani, there are still enough butt-hurt SPAs with their flocks of minions poised and ready to attack reviewers whose honest reviews do not laud their books. In addition to the nast..."That is too bad. I had hoped that the lesson would be learned. Oh well, all I can control is myself and continue to provide the most honest reviews I can.
Michel wrote: "Excuse me, but could we tone down this discussion a bit? I understand that some readers have been bitten by a few disrespectful SPAs, but those are not in the majority, far from it. Some of the com..."I can only speak from my experience and the experiences I've seen my friends endure. I had a friend who had a SPA publish their phone number on twitter and encourage their followers to call and harass that person. Someone tried to publish my home address, I had to report it to be taken down and luckily it was just a mailing address.
I know more than one person who has completely abandoned reviewing all together and others who refuse to read from SPAs anymore. I have gotten lucky to find some great SPAs that I love and that are reasonable people. But there's a lot that aren't. Far more than I think you'd expect.
I have very strongly worded criteria for accepting a book for review, because I feel like I have to in order to prevent being harassed. Personally, I vet every single author before I accept a copy of the book in addition to that. I check their website, I check their Goodreads, I look at their social media. If I see a single "this book is my baaaaaaaby" then I'm out and rejecting the book, anything that hints to me that the author sees their book as anything more than a product in their professional space is a big red flag. It's a baby to the author, it's a product to the public. There needs to be a professional delineation between how the author feels and their professional persona. Unfortunately I do think it's the SPAs that are more prone to forgetting that.
The Just-About-Cocky Ms M wrote: "No matter how hard and how often GR beat me over the head about Beneath a Scarlet Sky, I retaliated by skimming it and flaying it with a single star. To combat this lemmings tendency, I have a "Not worth the hype--hard pass" shelf."Hahaha, I love that! I have a lot of hard passes on trad authors/books. You can sell it to me all day but I know what I like and you can't convince me that what you're selling fits that bill.
Denise wrote: "had no idea Indies did this kind of stuff"...Use [insert favorite search engine] and type "indie authors behaving badly"...
LOL. Sorry, I wasn't sure if the post was sarcasm/humor or actual shock that people of any stripe could behave in less than stellar fashion on the Internet... Now I'll have to be looking over my shoulder for someone's street team...
There is nothing wrong with self-publishing. The problem is that far too many self-published authors also self-proofread, self-edit, self-layout design, and self-graphic design, not realizing that the end-result will be sub-standard and, more often than not, fails to succeed commercially.Since there are exceptions to every rule, I concede that there may be a few self-published authors that possess all of the other skills stated in the previous paragraph. That said; those few would be exceptional exceptions indeed.
Jim wrote: "There is nothing wrong with self-publishing. The problem is that far too many self-published authors also self-proofread, self-edit, self-layout design, and self-graphic design, not realizing that the end-result will be sub-standard and, more often than not, fail to succeed commercially"Who then go on to self-market, self-advertise, self-promote, to whatever degree, often wrongly thinking readers should do some of their job for them.
And then, all too often, complain about readers who leave negative reviews, or fail to post reviews (as many prefer not to post a negative review), who dare to point out sub-par editing and writing, fail to give "constructive feedback", fail to "understand" that they they're functioning on a budget and (in their opinion) shouldn't be held to professional standards.
I saw one author a while ago post on her blog complaining about a 3 star review, insulting that reader, then go on to call those who receive a review copy who don't post a review "freeloaders" and those who dared to post a negative review "trolls".
It does seem that the self-pubbed authors who produce professional quality products and behave in a professional manner are fairly rare.
They do exist though :D
Alexandra wrote: "They do exist though :D..."It may seem not worth the uphill battle to both write good books and self-publish them in this negative climate, but traditional publishers have limited slots in their catalogues, and are often looking for 'the same, only different' in what they accept.
If you're outside that pale, it matters not whether you can write: traditional publishers can afford to take a chance on very few books they don't expect to be a commercial success, regardless of the books' merits or the author's skill.
The solution for those authors is perseverance, and finding the few reviewers with both a track record and the willingness to consider indie. We try. It's a very slow process, but necessary.
Too often aspiring writers seek professional advice from novice authors who often possess no more knowledge pertaining to technical writing skills or the publishing, marketing, and/or promotional processes than those seeking their advice.There are community college courses, public library presentations, lectures, and seminars conducted by true professionals, most of whom have attained commercial success within the literary field themselves, available at little or no cost. One must only be willing to expend the time, energy, and resources to learn and develop the required knowledge and skills before self-publishing.
Very few succeed in this extremely competitive field; however some eventually do attain commercial success. There is no reason why you might not become one of them. I hope your dream comes true.
self-publishing is used for authors who feel that they can't trust anyone or they just feel like they could do it all by themselves. more mistakes are made and missed by self editors.
Shadlok wrote: "self-publishing is used for authors who feel that they can't trust anyone or they just feel like they could do it all by themselves. more mistakes are made and missed by self editors."Many self-publishing authors truly do care about producing a quality product and do use professional editors. One cannot assume a book is self-edited simply because it's self-published, although too many are.
Jim wrote: "Too often aspiring writers seek professional advice from novice authors who often possess no more knowledge pertaining to technical writing skills or the publishing, marketing, and/or promotional processes than those seeking their advice."That's true. Also too many get involved with circle-jerking author groups that just tell each other what they want to hear, reinforce bad ideas, bad advice, bad attitudes. Then they freak out when the real world shows up...
many times you say that it is self-published yet you have no proof. hath the times of writing and reading we all have done something similar. us, the people have come so far from where we began and now all we can say is self- publishers are jerks. they must have some nerve to do so.
yes, I get not but the soul of a lost child negated and lost to the world. yet you do the same rejecting of many pour souls. so now I say shame on you. self- publish is like a poor child you need to give it chance and it will bloom into something great.
I would like to inject a few facts and opinions in this discussion, which has mostly turned into SPA-bashing and generalizations.
First, most SPA take the self-publishing route simply because traditional publishers have too few slots open for new authors, or have specific requirements about the types of books, writing style or authors they will accept to publish. Sometimes (quite a few times I would say), their choice of authors they select and support is at least questionable and feels like simple crass business decision, which is understandable, as they are in the business to make a profit. 'Bestseller' does not always equate with 'quality writing'. Similarily, SPA work does not automatically equate with poor writing.
Second, there are tens of thousands of authors trying to break through on the book market, but comparatively few open slots via traditional publishing. Thus, most of those authors have to either abandon their dreams of publishing their stories or go the self-publishing route. This has little to do with the quality of their work and a lot to do with a saturated market.
Third, about self-proofing and self-editing. Many on this thread say that SPAs should use professional book proofreaders and editors to ensure a high quality of product. Further, many said that such professional help is not that expensive and is quite affordable. In whose perspective? Many of these SPAs are not well-to-do or can even be said to be struggling financially simply to live. If you consider a few hundred dollars a cheap price for the services of a professional editor, many struggling SPAs who are basically living from paycheck to paycheck would beg to differ with you. Many would-be authors are retired persons living off a minimal pension, so can't afford professional help for their books. Does that make them lazy, incompetent or uncaring writers? No!
Fourth, more than a few authors who would like to publish their books are not native English speakers, while the markets for books written in other languages often suck compared to the Anglophone market. You may have noticed that many members of Goodreads.com are not native anglophones. I have noted that, in general, those foreign language members pay a lot more attention to the originality, style of writing, character development and world-building (in fiction works) when they rate a book, instead of getting stuck on how perfect or not the grammar or ortograph in a book are. Funnily enough, those readers who prove to be the most severe about English grammar, orthograph or syntax are too often people who don't have any foreign language skills.
Finally, many SPAs write simply because they want to make their ideas and dreams known to others, not because they are trying to get rich via book writing. So, please let's stop putting all SPAs in the same basket because you hit a few bad apples.
First, most SPA take the self-publishing route simply because traditional publishers have too few slots open for new authors, or have specific requirements about the types of books, writing style or authors they will accept to publish. Sometimes (quite a few times I would say), their choice of authors they select and support is at least questionable and feels like simple crass business decision, which is understandable, as they are in the business to make a profit. 'Bestseller' does not always equate with 'quality writing'. Similarily, SPA work does not automatically equate with poor writing.
Second, there are tens of thousands of authors trying to break through on the book market, but comparatively few open slots via traditional publishing. Thus, most of those authors have to either abandon their dreams of publishing their stories or go the self-publishing route. This has little to do with the quality of their work and a lot to do with a saturated market.
Third, about self-proofing and self-editing. Many on this thread say that SPAs should use professional book proofreaders and editors to ensure a high quality of product. Further, many said that such professional help is not that expensive and is quite affordable. In whose perspective? Many of these SPAs are not well-to-do or can even be said to be struggling financially simply to live. If you consider a few hundred dollars a cheap price for the services of a professional editor, many struggling SPAs who are basically living from paycheck to paycheck would beg to differ with you. Many would-be authors are retired persons living off a minimal pension, so can't afford professional help for their books. Does that make them lazy, incompetent or uncaring writers? No!
Fourth, more than a few authors who would like to publish their books are not native English speakers, while the markets for books written in other languages often suck compared to the Anglophone market. You may have noticed that many members of Goodreads.com are not native anglophones. I have noted that, in general, those foreign language members pay a lot more attention to the originality, style of writing, character development and world-building (in fiction works) when they rate a book, instead of getting stuck on how perfect or not the grammar or ortograph in a book are. Funnily enough, those readers who prove to be the most severe about English grammar, orthograph or syntax are too often people who don't have any foreign language skills.
Finally, many SPAs write simply because they want to make their ideas and dreams known to others, not because they are trying to get rich via book writing. So, please let's stop putting all SPAs in the same basket because you hit a few bad apples.
Michel wrote: "I would like to inject a few facts and opinions in this discussion, which has mostly turned into SPA-bashing and generalizations.First, most SPA take the self-publishing route simply because trad..."
I'm certainly empathetic to the fact that many self-pubbed authors function on a tight budget, however regardless of the challenges to putting out a professional grade product, none of that obligates consumers to be accepting of a product that is sub-par.
When a book is put up for retail sale it is rightfully expected to be professional quality. That is the claim that is being inferred by offering it as a retail product.
Whatever struggles an author faces is completely irrelevant to the consumer. Whatever the reason, consumers simply do not need to turn a blind eye when a book is sub-par. Some authors try to make their challenges an obligation of consumers. It's not.
While we're now in the day when pretty much anyone can upload a book for retail sale, no one is owed consumers buying their books. Nor are consumers obligated to make excuses or allowances for sub-par books. No one is owed a career as an author. Readers typically don't want to waste their money on poorly edited, poorly written books.
We're on tight budgets too. We struggle too. We work hard for the money we have to spend on books too.
I don't believe this thread is about "SPA-bashing" or "generalizations", I certainly have not put "all SPAs in the same basket". I've found many gems among self-pubbed books, that are every bit as quality as their trade-pubbed counterparts. Who behave as professionals.
That doesn't change the fact that much of what is uploaded has serious issues in quality and/or authors who behave in an unethical and unprofessional manner.
If people "want to make their ideas and dreams known to others, not because they are trying to get rich via book writing." and they don't have the means/skill/expertise to polish their writing up to the standards of a professional quality retail book, there are many avenues available for them to do just that. There are a bunch of sites where they can share their writing with others. Or, they can create their own blog. Putting their writing up as a retail book is not the only way anyone can share their dreams and ideas.
They may not desire or expect to get rich, but there is zero reason to put a book up for retail sale unless one is asking for others to pay for the book.
The OP asked, "Why don't more people read Self-published authors?" people responding are answering that question.
Alicia wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "They do exist though :D..."It may seem not worth the uphill battle to both write good books and self-publish them in this negative climate, but traditional publishers have limit..."
Couldn't agree more, Alicia.
Jim wrote: "Too often aspiring writers seek professional advice from novice authors who often possess no more knowledge pertaining to technical writing skills or the publishing, marketing, and/or promotional p..."The key word in your comment, Jim, is 'time'. Just writing the book itself takes long enough. Then there is the living of life - the going to the supermarket, taxing the car, taking out the garbage, etc. All this doesn't leave much of time left for learning a whole new subject, which quite frankly very few of us actually wish to learn.
Michel wrote: "I would like to inject a few facts and opinions in this discussion, which has mostly turned into SPA-bashing and generalizations.First, most SPA take the self-publishing route simply because trad..."
Yes, and I agree with all of what you say, Michael. I particularly liked your forth point.
I am English, as in I am English and live in the UK and so write in English English. Many on Goodreads are American, or north American, and write in American English. The expression, "two nations divided by a common language" comes to mind. Yes, we may both be Anglophone, but oh boy how spelling, grammar, etc., differ. Yes, there are times when reading American English, and I accept that it could be bad American English, when I don't understand what I am reading.
Two points are worth adding. Firstly, written language deveolped after spoken language - even these days we learn to speak before we learn to read and write - and stories used to be told. Yes, this is blindingly obvious, but the point I am making is that it is the story which is important, not the technical detail of its writing. That is not to dismiss the technical element, but let's keep this 'within reason' - ref my comments above on English English versus American English. And this brings me on to my second point, namely that language has been and will remain an evolving means of communication - English English and American English started out as being one and the same a few hundred years ago! So I suggest that whereas the grammar and spelling pedants may feel smug picking up on minor points, are they, in the process, missing the main point, namely the story. We mustn't get too hung up on this.
To those novice authors who feel that they know better than those who have already established formally recognized reputations and displayed proven expertise within the various disciplines and processes related to the literary field, I offer the following quote."It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble. It's what we know that ain't so."
Will Rogers (Humorist) 1879 - 1935.
Gotta say, authors trying to tell readers what they "must" accept, do, tolerate, understand is really not a good look...and is a huge turn-off.
Michel wrote: "Many of these SPAs are not well-to-do or can even be said to be struggling financially simply to live. If you consider a few hundred dollars a cheap price for the services of a professional editor, many struggling SPAs who are basically living from paycheck to paycheck would beg to differ with you. Many would-be authors are retired persons living off a minimal pension, so can't afford professional help for their books. Does that make them lazy, incompetent or uncaring writers? No! "I do understand what you're saying, but here's the problem, the book being offered for sale is a product. I understand that to the author it is a sharing of their dream, but it is being offered to consumers as a product from a business. If I were trying to hire a contractor and asked if he could come and take a look at the project and write me up a prospectus and he said, "I really don't have the time or money to do that, I'm living paycheck to paycheck here", then I'm not hiring him.
Authors are their own business. Their books are their business. If you can't invest the time and money to make sure that you're business is being presented as professionally as possible, then why should the consumer spend their hard earned money supporting that business? I live paycheck to paycheck too, I don't like spending my hard earned money on a book that probably couldn't pass a Microsoft Word spellcheck let alone a professional editor.
Alexandra wrote: "Gotta say, authors trying to tell readers what they "must" accept, do, tolerate, understand is really not a good look...and is a huge turn-off."Very true. As a compassionate human being I understand the challenges, as a consumer spending money on a product it is irrelevant to me.
Alexandra wrote: "Gotta say, authors trying to tell readers what they "must" accept, do, tolerate, understand is really not a good look...and is a huge turn-off."
I agree with you on that, but my point was that only a minority of authors, both SPA and trad-published, do that. Also, I will repeat that the story itself and how it is told/presented is hugely more important to readers than chasing about misplaced commas or imperfect English, as Leslie said in message 2303.
I agree with you on that, but my point was that only a minority of authors, both SPA and trad-published, do that. Also, I will repeat that the story itself and how it is told/presented is hugely more important to readers than chasing about misplaced commas or imperfect English, as Leslie said in message 2303.
Stefani wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Gotta say, authors trying to tell readers what they "must" accept, do, tolerate, understand is really not a good look...and is a huge turn-off."Very true. As a compassionate hum..."
Same.
The problems of the product producer, regardless of how understandable, do not obligate the consumer to tolerate or accept a sub-par product.
There are various ways to write and share writing, if that's all someone wants to do, without putting it up for retail sale. Therefore, the "I just want to share my dreams with people who may enjoy them, don't care about money" complaint doesn't fly.
Once a product is put up on a retail site as a consumer product for retail sale, it is the inherent claim of that producer that it is a professional quality product. If in actuality it is not, consumers will be displeased.
Michel wrote: "I agree with you on that, but my point was that only a minority of authors, both SPA and trad-published, do that"It's rare among trade-pubs, yup. There are now an enormous number of self-pubbed authors. A minority of such a large number is still a lot of people. In fact, one of your posts here read that way to me, regarding all the reasons an SPA may find it hard to produce a well-edited book.
I don't see many readers being concerned about misplaced commas unless it's egregious, imperfect English is certainly problematic.
I tried to read a book a while ago by an author who wasn't a native English speaker. The misused words kept throwing me out of the story, and there were times things were muddy and unclear. It was not an enjoyable experience. My advice there would be to use beta readers who ARE native speakers PRIOR TO publishing.
Bottom line - authors don't get to dictate to readers what they will or will not accept, or what is or is not acceptable. And when they try it only serves to turn readers off.
Alexandra wrote: "There are various ways to write and share writing, if that's all someone wants to do, without putting it up for retail sale. Therefore, the "I just want to share my dreams with people who may enjoy them, don't care about money" complaint doesn't fly.''
Your statement is a contradictory one. If an author says that he doesn't care about money, then he likely won't put his book up for sale and will use a site that offers ebooks for free. There are a number of such sites available on the Internet. As for 'professional quality product', consumers will be displeased as much if not more by books that are impeccably edited but tell a crappy story with poor character development and insipid scenario, especially since they typically come at much steeper prices than the average SPA book. Examples of such trad-published books abound and are too often known as 'bestsellers'.
Your statement is a contradictory one. If an author says that he doesn't care about money, then he likely won't put his book up for sale and will use a site that offers ebooks for free. There are a number of such sites available on the Internet. As for 'professional quality product', consumers will be displeased as much if not more by books that are impeccably edited but tell a crappy story with poor character development and insipid scenario, especially since they typically come at much steeper prices than the average SPA book. Examples of such trad-published books abound and are too often known as 'bestsellers'.
The answer to the original question, of course, is quality, quality, quality, or to the consumer, the perception that SPA books are lacking in quality.I have read SPA books. I have even written a couple. I can overlook someone with a sub-par cover. Good covers can be expensive. I can roll my eyes at some cheesy, cliche plot device or dialogue by the hero or villain. But I cannot overlook poor writing, spelling, and grammar. If you were a poor speller in grade school, it stands to reason that you are a poor speller today. Even if a SPA cannot afford professional editing services, everyone knows at least someone with good English skills - whether a family member, friend, or co-worker. Don't be afraid to ask for help. And always strive to make your self-published work better without taking criticism personally.
Michel wrote: "Your statement is a contradictory one."No, it isn't.
"If an author says that he doesn't care about money, then he likely won't put his book up for sale and will use a site that offers ebooks for free. There are a number of such sites available on the Internet."
Precisely. Which countered your comment giving all the reasons why an SPA may have trouble producing a well-edited book, and may simply want to be sharing their dreams with others. In which case, I pointed out, there are ways to do so without putting a book up for retail sale as a professional quality book.
"As for 'professional quality product', consumers will be displeased as much if not more by books that are impeccably edited but tell a crappy story with poor character development and insipid scenario,"
You can split hairs all you want over what you think readers will or will not accept more readily, and you can continue to try to drag trade-pub books into the mix when the discussion is about self-pubbed books, in some weird "they do it too" argument. But it's not going to fly.
Actual bestsellers, as opposed to those some claim are bestsellers because the hit some list of obscure category, are bestsellers because lots of readers enjoy them. What you personally think of their quality isn't at all relevant. Clearly a significant number of people disagree with your opinion.
Additionally, I never claimed editing was the end-all-be-all of producing a professional quality book. I was responding to your justifications regarding poorly edited books.
Readers and book consumers are not obligated to accept an amateurish offering whether it's $.99 or $9.99. So excuses regarding price don't fly either.
Putting a book up for retail sale is a claim by the seller that it is professional grade.
Wow. Things have gotten heated in this thread.Despite all the discussion about the obstacles to publishing that Indie publishers have to deal with, I haven't really seen anyone suggest that readers should accept sub-par books. Maybe that was farther back in the thread? I haven't read all 47 pages.
The thing is, there is only one test for determining if a work is of acceptable quality or is sub-par: read it.
If you have read a book and found that it was good quality, then all the good. Likewise, if you read a book and find the quality lacking, you've got every right to be disappointed. If you have not read the book, then you know nothing about its qualities, good or bad.
can you please summarize your answers so that there not so long.
Attempting to justify or defend mediocrity within any art form, performance, or product only serves to encourage mediocrity and provides no incentive for mediocre performers to attempt to expend the energy, time, and resources to improve future performance.
I have one thing to say, I am lost at where this is going. I mean why are we even bothering with such stupid stuff.
why are we even bothering to talk about this?
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Devil's Workshop (other topics)A Prophecy of Dawn (other topics)
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Women and Goddesses in Myth and Sacred Text (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Vicky Adin (other topics)K.D. McQuain (other topics)
Jeff Goins (other topics)
Jenny Blake (other topics)
Chris Guillebeau (other topics)
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Doesn't sound sustainable. I just wish they didn't blitz the playing field for those of us who care.