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III. Goodreads Readers > Why don't more people read Self-published authors?

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message 1301: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Ron wrote: "How does one find/choose an editor? Editors are not created equal, just as authors are not. There are also personality issues and style issues to consider."

There are the author resources associated with this group: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

You might also want to consider those who work with your genre, and contact a few to get a better feel for their personalities.

As traditional publishers work to shore up their profit margins, more editors have had to go freelance. As a result they do have a need to put their best foot forward with each project.


message 1302: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments C.M.J. wrote: "I didn’t have to read nearly as far as you did, Martyn; three paragraphs into the prologue was enough for me: “Satisfied that the weapon was functioning correctly, he made his way towards the bridge and rested it in the undergrowth, out of site.” (Emphasis mine.)"

I tend to highlight typos, etcetera, and stop at a critical mass of five.

I have to say, one of the things I often do if a story shows promise but has errors, is provide the author with private feedback. In one case, where an author had made several mistakes in a setting I know intimately (Amsterdam), I sent him 4 A4 pages of corrections that got me mentioned in the acknowledgements of the re-issue of the novel.


message 1303: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Ron wrote: "How does one find/choose an editor? Editors are not created equal, just as authors are not. There are also personality issues and style issues to consider."

Prepare sample pages, send them to several editors within your price range and compare their corrections.


message 1304: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Linda wrote: "If your book hasn't gone through alpha and beta readers, disinterested (aka impartial) critique partners, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., it's probably not ready yet for an "editor." You'll very likely just be wasting your time and money."

Seconded. And make sure you know the difference between a copy editor, a content editor, and a proofreader.


message 1305: by C.M.J. (new)

C.M.J. Wallace | 193 comments Martyn V. wrote: "C.M.J. wrote: "I didn’t have to read nearly as far as you did, Martyn; three paragraphs into the prologue was enough for me: “Satisfied that the weapon was functioning correctly, he made his way to..."

I used to send that depth of feedback, and I admire you for doing it, but now I do so only if I have a vested interest. Time is too precious a commodity.


message 1306: by Brenda (new)

Brenda Clough (brendaclough) | 361 comments Yes, I don't feel it's my job to supply free critiques to people. It is the job of the author to get a clue long before I, the reader, come into the picture.


message 1307: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Linda wrote: "it might be worth your while to go back to the "beginning" -- which is actually post #266"

Thanks, Linda. I'm going to do that. I didn't even realize how huge this thread is.


message 1308: by Martyn (last edited Jan 31, 2014 12:44PM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments C.M.J. wrote: "I used to send that depth of feedback, and I admire you for doing it, but now I do so only if I have a vested interest. Time is too precious a commodity."

Of course.

In another thread people were discussing why authors didn't offer refunds for readers who were disappointed by the books. I'd gladly offer anyone disappointed in my books the money I made off the sale, but would that compensate for the valuable time wasted?

Maybe another way is to just offer stories for free, and ask readers to donate what they think the story is worth to them... :)


message 1309: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Brenda wrote: "Yes, I don't feel it's my job to supply free critiques to people. It is the job of the author to get a clue long before I, the reader, come into the picture."

That's why those authors who are serious about publishing professional material use beta-readers and editors.

The wannabees publish first and think they can use the paying customer as beta-reader.


message 1310: by Lilo (last edited Jan 31, 2014 12:45PM) (new)

Lilo Abernathy (lilo_abernathy) | 68 comments Let's not forget that self-published authors have to do all of their own promotion. Self-promotion, by it's very nature, is usually suspect. A promotion or advertisement, even though it is not unbiased, at least has the advantage of not being information directly from the one who most benefits (the author). That is why we, as self-published authors, rely so heavily on reader's reviews.

Lilo

http://lilojabernathy.blogspot.com/


message 1311: by C.M.J. (new)

C.M.J. Wallace | 193 comments Martyn V. wrote: "C.M.J. wrote: "I used to send that depth of feedback, and I admire you for doing it, but now I do so only if I have a vested interest. Time is too precious a commodity."

Of course.

In another thr..."


I’m rarely disappointed in books I buy because, as I said, I know by reading just the first page of the sample whether I even want to buy them.

Authors shouldn’t need to offer refunds: caveat emptor, aka buyers, read the sample.

If your books are well written and edited, Martyn, you won’t need to beg for donations. :)


message 1312: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments I'm am the resurrector of this thread..I didn't think it was going to take off with a mind of it's own. However, it's good to see that it really get's the best out of people and their opinions.


message 1313: by Martyn (last edited Jan 31, 2014 01:21PM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments C.M.J. wrote: "If your books are well written and edited, Martyn, you won’t need to beg for donations. :)"

Probably not, but I found that I get more responses to my paid books than my free short stories, mainly because the free stories tend to be downloaded without a second thought and probably end up on the bottom of someone's TBR list, whereas people who buy my books often read them pretty much straight away.

A difficulty already mentioned is that 'self-promotion' is already suspect. If I say I've written a good book, people assume I might be full of myself, so I'd rather tell people to check out the samples. My books are quite long, so a sample is often the first three or four chapters, more than enough to ascertain the quality.

I'm glad that I get wonderful reviews by people who evidently care about my books and are eager for each next book that I write, so that's extremely gratifying.


message 1314: by Lee (last edited Jan 31, 2014 01:50PM) (new)

Lee Cushing | 99 comments Martyn V. wrote: "C.M.J. wrote: "I used to send that depth of feedback, and I admire you for doing it, but now I do so only if I have a vested interest. Time is too precious a commodity."

Of course.

In another thr..."


Actually I do both. I post a serialized story right here on my Goodreads blog as well as the longer published ones.


message 1315: by C.M.J. (last edited Jan 31, 2014 02:02PM) (new)

C.M.J. Wallace | 193 comments Martyn V. wrote: "C.M.J. wrote: "If your books are well written and edited, Martyn, you won’t need to beg for donations. :)"

Probably not, but I found that I get more responses to my paid books than my free short s..."


Exactly, Martyn. I believe that there’s a throwaway attitude toward free e-books, which is why I no longer offer mine free, regardless of the marketing value gratis work might have.

Lee, that sounds interesting. Do you feel that it works?


message 1316: by Troy (new)

Troy Jackson | 43 comments Some great insight here. It'll take me weeks to get through all of this! :)


message 1317: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Martyn V. wrote: "Maybe another way is to just offer stories for free, and ask readers to donate what they think the story is worth to them... :) "

I've tried something similar on Smashwords by selecting "Reader sets the price." The problem with that is, the reader "buys" it for free, then if they happened to love it and think it's worth the suggested retail price (or more or less, whatever) there's nothing they can do it about it. The system isn't setup to let them come back and make a payment.

So they are expected to determine what they feel the book is worth before they've read it, or after only having read the sample.


message 1318: by Gregor (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments Edward wrote: "Martyn V. wrote: "Maybe another way is to just offer stories for free, and ask readers to donate what they think the story is worth to them... :) "

I've tried something similar on Smashwords by se..."


Huh. They can't even come back and give it as a gift?


message 1319: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Edward wrote: "The system isn't setup to let them come back and make a payment."

My idea was more:
Author publishes book for free and has Paypal donation button on his website/blog. Or maybe a Paypal button in the back of the story/novel in question.


message 1320: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Gregor wrote: "Huh. They can't even come back and give it as a gift? "

I'm sure they could do that if they were really thoughtful about it.


message 1321: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Martyn V. wrote: "Edward wrote: "The system isn't setup to let them come back and make a payment."

My idea was more:
Author publishes book for free and has Paypal donation button on his website/blog. Or maybe a Pay..."


That's essentially how I intended to publish. I've never had any desire to submit to a publisher and hope for the best.

Long before there were ereaders when Amazon was just getting started an author named James Wesley Rawles published a book and called it shareware. If you read it and liked it, he asked that you send him $5.
I sent him $5 and decided that's how I would publish when I became good enough as a writer.

But now we have KDP, which is way cooler than putting a zip file on a webpage.

Now I just gotta work on that whole writing thing...


message 1322: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments The problem with a "Pay what you think it's worth" site is many people would never return to pay a dime, regardless of the quality of the work received.


message 1323: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments Agreed Henry.
I'm not a KDP supporter and not because it doesn't put money in my pocket but for the reason you stated. You get tons and tons of downloads and yet you risk getting nothing out of it. You would at least like a few reviews and ratings at the very least but it's too much of a gamble.

As for Smashwords, I find the whole site a bit complex and hard to understand. Having read their rules and regulations I find them a bit much but then again some may enjoy them; I suppose it's based on a matter of opinion.


message 1324: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments Justin wrote: "Agreed Henry.
I'm not a KDP supporter and not because it doesn't put money in my pocket but for the reason you stated. You get tons and tons of downloads and yet you risk getting nothing out of it...."


I always get reviews and usually some sales piggybacking off my "free" days, but I wouldn't be surprised if it depends on genre. And I will admit there is a review on Amazon from my latest freebie that apparently left the reader surprised by it's being "gay" fiction.


message 1325: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments C.M.J. wrote: "Exactly, Martyn. I believe that there’s a throwaway attitude toward free e-books, which is why I no longer offer mine free, regardless of the marketing value gratis work might have."

I leave the short story Locked Room: A Katla KillFile free, but I accepted the 'losses'. For me, a free short story is like leaving a business card. Most business cards end up in the bin, but I have some reviews on Locked Room with the reviewer eager to read my novels.

As to my novels, many people claim good results from making the first novel in the series free, but I don't think people will value a free book enough. So I set a low price (3.99) and encourage reviewers to contact me for a free review copy. Not the other books, though. I've found that most people who read the first book get hooked enough to buy the other books.


message 1326: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Henry wrote: "I had some readers surprised at my work being too gritty and life-like :) I guess some people do not read blurbs."

I gave out review copies of Reprobate: A Katla Novel through the Read It & Reap group. I have reviews here, here, here and here, where group members signed up for a review copy and evidently didn't read the blurb, because they started reading with trepidation since reading about 'remorseless assassins' wasn't their cup of tea.
The good thing is that I evidently won them over and they liked my book despite their initial misgivings (some even giving it five stars), but still, I cannot understand signing up to read a review copy of something without at least reading the blurb.


message 1327: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments The blurb is short, and maybe the reader didn't realize that Roddy and Thomas are men's names, but people do funny things sometimes. It's number three in a series of shorts, and pretty much all my books have overt LGBT content, but this reader clearly felt there should have been a little more warning. On the plus side, he or she praised the writing.


message 1328: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments And now there's a second, slightly nasty one. I flagged Amazon on that, because while you can say what you want about my writing, gay fiction does not need to be hidden from view. We'll see if they do anything.

I have a period woodcut of a man and a woman on the cover, because it works for the book for a number of reasons, but I am now wondering if that was a really sound decision.


message 1329: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments Linda wrote: "D.C. wrote: "I have a period woodcut of a man and a woman on the cover, because it works for the book for a number of reasons, but I am now wondering if that was a really sound decision...."

Perso..."


Well, I definitely had no nefarious purposes in mind, and the wedding is central to the story, but I am sort of starting to see if someone isn't paying careful attention...

I don't want to change the title. I may change the cover. I thought it was fairly attractive, but that kind of reaction would fall into the category of "stuff I don't need".


message 1330: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments D.C. wrote: "I have a period woodcut of a man and a woman on the cover, because it works for the book for a number of reasons, but I am now wondering if that was a really sound decision."

I agree with Linda. It might not be intended to mislead, but it looks like a regency romance novel about a heterosexual couple, so I can imagine that some readers are shocked when it turns out to be gay fiction.

That said, I'm sure you can find something that hints at gay fiction without having oiled torsos rubbing together.


message 1331: by Gregor (last edited Feb 01, 2014 08:47AM) (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments Richard wrote: "D.C. wrote: "pretty much all my books have overt LGBT content"

Richard, I'd say your proclivity for SF xenophilia erotica is likely more rare.


message 1332: by Gregor (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments Richard wrote: "Gregor wrote: "Richard, I'd say your proclivity for SF xenophilia erotica is likely more rare. "

All part of a grand long-running experiment which, so far, proves that sex doesn't sell. ;-)"


Well, you'd have to admit that SF xenophilia erotica is pretty niche.


message 1333: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments Straightforward m/m romance here, and this is a regency with no explicit content, so I don't have "hot stuff" warnings on it. Oiled torsos aren't really my style, but when I get home tonight I'll see if I can round up a woodcut with two men.


message 1334: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments D.C. wrote: "...but when I get home tonight I'll see if I can round up a woodcut with two men."

I think that will help with the initial misconceptions from readers who don't read blurbs.


message 1335: by Ripley (new)

Ripley King (Ripley_S_King) | 38 comments Just butting in here, but I noticed a few things about readers.

Even here, at Goodreads, readers hardly ever read the blurbs. Great covers, don't mean squat. They help, but not that much. I've given books away by the thousands, and yet very few, if any, have actually read my books. They collect them, and who knows what happens after that.

Writers care about their books, not about your books. If you're great, not one writer is going to promote you before themselves. If you suck, maybe, maybe you get a "you suck" review. Writers are afraid of retribution reviews, so generally say nothing. Nothing at all. Get used to it.

Online marketing is all about pay to play, and that's bullshit. Something I have to live with. I'll buy ads when I can afford them.

I need reviews. I want reviews, but they are so rare, in one full year I've gathered six. Amazon, Amazon UK, and one on Barnes & Noble. Five with five stars, one with three stars. To me that means I'm good, but I'm not reaching real readers.

We face but two real problems, and they chase their own tails. Reader apathy, and visibility. I've taken myself, my marketing, offline.

In order to make offline marketing more effective, I offer online, on my site, and on Smashwords, 50% samples. Yes, any reader can read 50% of my books. I only wish I could get Amazon to do the same, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. 50% samples work.

I love sharing ideas. I think we could do a lot more to help ourselves if we just shared a few more ideas. I shared my ideas, and the hits on my blog went down by 75%

I don't care.

I'll find my readers. Real readers. But, I doubt I'll find them online. Read my blog, and give me some real feedback. I'd love to know what you all think. And, just so you know, I got a very thick skin.

http://ripleyking.blogspot.com/


message 1336: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Gregor wrote: "Richard wrote: "Gregor wrote: "Richard, I'd say your proclivity for SF xenophilia erotica is likely more rare. "

All part of a grand long-running experiment which, so far, proves that sex doesn't ..."


"Well, you'd have to admit that SF xenophilia erotica is pretty niche."

Hmmm, how to match the animalphilia crowd in Mexico who read with SF, that is the question.


message 1337: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Ripley wrote: "Just butting in here, but I noticed a few things about readers.

Even here, at Goodreads, readers hardly ever read the blurbs. Great covers, don't mean squat. They help, but not that much. I've giv..."


Ah, then you've noticed the trend to attempt to mute the voices of those who either don't have a lot of money to throw around or the backing of a traditional publisher.

I'll check out your blog in the morning before the little one wants a lot of attention.


message 1338: by Gregor (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments Ripley wrote: "Just butting in here, but I noticed a few things about readers.

Even here, at Goodreads, readers hardly ever read the blurbs. Great covers, don't mean squat. They help, but not that much. I've giv..."


I don't agree with this:

"Writers care about their books, not about your books. If you're great, not one writer is going to promote you before themselves."

I promote the works of other writers all the time, far more than I promote my own. And I don't think that's so uncommon.


message 1339: by Ripley (new)

Ripley King (Ripley_S_King) | 38 comments To RFG: I've noticed a lot of trends in the last twenty years. In the last year alone the pay-to-play middlemen seem to have won. You don't pay for ads on Bookbub, or other newsletters, you can't reach the amazing number of readers they have. Their ads can be pricey, for those of us who don't have the cash. The only good thing I can say, Bookbub did away with their ridiculous review requirements. Used to be you needed 15 or more 5 star reviews, or you were SOL (shit out of luck). That led to a lot of authors buying 5 star reviews.

Yes, that's where that bull started.

Most newsletters of any note, and I'll say there are about seven to ten, still have review requirements. 10 or more five star reviews is the norm. So I'm screwed there, even though I can afford one a month.

High school popularity is alive and well with online authors, and their tight little circles, and if you can't play on their level, you're not worth bothering about, or are a flea to scratch. Joe Konrath pointed that out to me on a reply to one of his posts. This is a cutthroat business, as he sees it. Nobody helped him, and he helps his friends, but there's more to it than that. He has helped a lot of authors, granted, but you still need to play at his level. You buy your cover, and he has artists friends. You buy all the editing you will ever need, and he has friends for that too. His formatter is there, for a price.

Me, I did my own covers, and they look goooood. I like them. I've spent years, learning how to edit myself, and I'm good. Read my 50% samples. I formatted myself, and I don't see any problems on Amazon's Look Inside feature, or with Smashwords. Their meat-grinder loves me.

I've spent about $150 on my covers, and zero with everything else.

I've always been an advocate for the little guy, but I'm far from popular. For a year at the Corner, I posted articles on the basics for beginners, told them all my secrets, let them know we could help each other, and got nothing in return. I was ignored. CJ is a doll, but she was the exception.

I started the new blog, and you can read it from start to end. I used to get a hundred hits with each post, and when I said I was going to start marketing offline, and showed them pics of my magnetic signs, the hit rate dropped. This last post, I don't know why I bothered.

I did talk about my blood pressure as a possible warning to others, but don't see that happening again.

Me, I'll continue to tread my own path. BTW, out of the thousands of readers who downloaded my freebies last year, and the four reviews I managed, I swore off freebies. I'll buy ads, but my books will be priced at .99 cents for a limited time. No more freebies.

To Gregor: We all have our stories, we all have different measures of luck.

I just know what I know based on my own stories and luck.

I'm glad you do promote other authors. Keep doing it!

I think my blog says it all. And, I think there are lots of authors in my boat. For most of us, online marketing is a nightmare without end. Been there, done that, keep missing the brass ring.

So, I'm going old school this year. I went through most of my files, cleaned up all I could find, and tightened up thing. These I put up on my site as 50% samples. I know samples work, and big samples work better.

The magnets for my truck, just a start in my offline marketing. I'll start marketing online when I can. I'll pay for ads. I see nothing wrong with paying for ads. I just don't like the fact I need so many 5 star reviews, when I won't buy them, or fake them.

As a reader, I like what I wrote. I have enough self-confidence in my abilities and stories to post them big, meaty samples.

Our problems as authors, is that we are surrounded by other authors, and for online marketing, authors promoting authors to other authors . . . only gets you so far.

To go farther, now that's the trick to marketing in the next few years. How do we find our readers.

Readers, are everywhere.


message 1340: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Ripley wrote: "Writers care about their books, not about your books. If you're great, not one writer is going to promote you before themselves. "

I have to totally disagree. Of course, you could change that by adding "most" to the beginning of the above sentence. But whenever someone makes a universal statement, they are almost always wrong.

Writers are also readers. I promoted a writer today by writing a review, tweeting about his book, and posting on Facebook. I also wrote to the writer to give him some advice on how to get more exposure for his book.

Why? Because it was damned good and more people need to know about it. Not everyone is concerned only with their own success. I have to wonder where you get that idea from.

There is another author who impressed me so much that I offered to put several chapters of her only book in the back of my most recent book in the hopes that some of my sales will help her get the exposure she deserves. I can't wait to hear if it's working for her.

If you're great, not one writer is going to promote you before themselves.

smh


message 1341: by Lilo (new)

Lilo Abernathy (lilo_abernathy) | 68 comments I agree about the universal statement.

Further, as a writer, every time I read someone's work, I learn something about writing. When their book is poor, I learn what not to do. When their book is good, I learn what to do.

If you want to be a good writer you will NOT think of your writing as the "best writing". You should always try to see yourself on a learning curve. Like doctors who practice medicine, writers practice writing. Our goal is never achieved and eternally pursued.

Lilo
Always looking for tweeters and goodread friends.
@Lilo_Abernathy


message 1342: by Ripley (new)

Ripley King (Ripley_S_King) | 38 comments I'll give you that, hands down.

And I'm sure to hear more about my misspoken words. Also, I'm not claiming to be great, either. That's not for me to decide. Readers are the gatekeepers, and they hold all the keys. That's the way it should be in this Indie climate.


message 1343: by Ripley (new)

Ripley King (Ripley_S_King) | 38 comments Lilo, I saw that coming, and tried to head it off. LOL


message 1344: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments Martyn V. wrote: "D.C. wrote: "...but when I get home tonight I'll see if I can round up a woodcut with two men."

I think that will help with the initial misconceptions from readers who don't read blurbs."


No luck, but I've now got a single kind of pensive guy and hopefully that will help keep it out of the clutches of those who think gays should keep their books to themselves.

What astounds me is that this is someone who didn't pay for it, doesn't have to read it, and would have had to read at least 8 or 10 pages to get to anything beyond a reference to "embraces".


message 1345: by Martyn (last edited Feb 01, 2014 11:34PM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments D.C. wrote: "What astounds me is that this is someone who didn't pay for it, doesn't have to read it, and would have had to read at least 8 or 10 pages to get to anything beyond a reference to "embraces"."

What astounds me, is that it astounds you. :)

I live in Amsterdam, a city where (for the most part) gays don't have to worry about walking hand in hand. Still, I'm willing to bet that if someone picked up your novel, sees a heterosexual couple in a woodcut on the cover, and starts to read, will be surprised that it's actually gay fiction (meaning fiction that is mainly about two men in a romantic relationship).
The thing is, some surprises are pleasant, some are not so pleasant. Gay fiction is niche, not mainstream, because being gay is still a minority, and readers rarely want to read outside their sexual proclivities.
Even in a city where nobody blinks an eye at gay men kissing in the street, the general straight population would be hard pressed to pick up gay fiction on purpose.
I imagine that the US is much more polarized on the issues of homosexuality, so the 'unpleasantness' of the surprise will engender much more vehement reactions than in a society that is 'pro-gay'.

In that sense, I'm wondering why you are astounded by the reactions of your fellow Americans. You're probably not unaware of antipathy against LGBT individuals. To 'spring' gay fiction on unsuspecting straight readers and expect them to take it in stride is disingenuous.

Your remark that ALL your books are LGBT fiction doesn't hold water. People who bought this book might not have read your other books.

Packaging a book with LGBT content like a straight regency romance novel is a great way to make straight people read gay fiction, I give you that, but the vehement negative reactions shouldn't have astounded you, knowing the attitude towards LGBT by the general population.

So, my question is, what was your idea behind the packaging of this book? Did you intend the book to be picked up by readers who don't usually read books with LGBT content?


message 1346: by Martyn (last edited Feb 02, 2014 12:24AM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Ripley, I read your post with attention and I will check out your blog later, but I'd like to respond to your (blanket) statements.

Ripley wrote: "Even here, at Goodreads, readers hardly ever read the blurbs. Great covers, don't mean squat. They help, but not that much. I've given books away by the thousands, and yet very few, if any, have actually read my books. They collect them, and who knows what happens after that."

I wonder how you know they haven't actually read your books? They might have read your books and went 'meh', or even liked them, but didn't feel like they should let you know they read your books. Without them reacting, how do you know your books are not being read?

Also, free books often are less valued than paid books. My free short story Locked Room has been downloaded more than my paid novel Reprobate, but Reprobate got me more reviews and feedback. Locked Room probably ends up drifting down the TBR pile, while Reprobate is read straight away.

Ripley wrote: "Writers care about their books, not about your books. If you're great, not one writer is going to promote you before themselves. If you suck, maybe, maybe you get a "you suck" review. Writers are afraid of retribution reviews, so generally say nothing. Nothing at all. Get used to it."

Some others have already responded to this blanket statement. Like them, I disagree. If I like a book, I write a review. My reviews end up on GR, my Blog, and from my Blog they are publicized through FB, Twitter, and Google+. I don't reciprocate to readers writing reviews for my book, unless I read one of their books on my own initiative and decide to review. Even then, I don't review them differently than I would review any other book.
And I'm not afraid of anyone slamming my books. If I think a book fails in the promise it makes, I will stop reading and write a scathing review. I received a fair share of blanket 1-star ratings from people who don't agree with me, but I'm confident that those who check out my books will ignore the unreliable ratings and read the (generally favorable) reviews.

Ripley wrote: "Online marketing is all about pay to play, and that's bullshit. Something I have to live with. I'll buy ads when I can afford them."

If you cannot buy ads, you have to be more creative. I rarely buy ads, but I have other methods of slowly building a readership. However, what works for me, might not work for you.

Ripley wrote: "I need reviews. I want reviews, but they are so rare, in one full year I've gathered six. Amazon, Amazon UK, and one on Barnes & Noble. Five with five stars, one with three stars. To me that means I'm good, but I'm not reaching real readers."

Six reviews on how many sales? I'm talking sales, not free downloads or giveaways. The general consensus is that the ratio for reviews/sales is 1/1000. So, have you sold six thousand books for those reviews? If not, you're ahead.

Ripley wrote: "We face but two real problems, and they chase their own tails. Reader apathy, and visibility. I've taken myself, my marketing, offline."

I agree with the visibility (I call it lack of exposure, but it's generally the same thing), but I don't agree with reader apathy. Readers are apathetic, but they can get overwhelmed, which is not unusual with 40,000 books published every week.

***

I checked your profile. You've been on GoodReads for ten months. You have 3 friends and 2 fans. Your shelves are empty, you haven't rated or reviewed anything. Your author bio is empty. Your books are listed, you have no events, and you're a member of only two groups, this one included.

I'd start with working on that. Add an author bio so people can get to know you. Join groups and join conversations. Don't talk about your books, talk about what moves you, give your opinions. If people think you are interesting, one click on your name will take them to your profile where they can check out your books. Review books, so people can see your tastes.

On the other hand, you can totally ignore me. I have six publications, sell about one book a day (if that), and my blog has 300 followers and 5-15 daily visitors, so I'm not exactly making waves.

I'm confident about the professional quality of my work. I've been contacted by trade publishers, but I didn't like the contracts and I have no negotiation clout, so I became a self-publisher solely to keep control of my stories and the promise I make to my readers.

Despite my meager sales, I enjoy myself. I have made friends and fans, I get great feedback and favorable reviews. Although the quality of my work is professional, I'm not commercially inclined, I write the books I wanted to read but couldn't find, and I share them through self-publication in the hope that others might like them too. I don't hope to become a bestseller author or live from my writing, since the chances on either is pretty slim, so my expectations are low. Which probably accounts for my general happiness...


message 1347: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Martyn V. wrote: "Ripley, I read your post with attention and I will check out your blog later, but I'd like to respond to your (blanket) statements.
"


Once again, I lament the lack of a Like (or in this case LOVE) button.

Well said, Martyn. I whole-heartedly second your advice. It's much the way I view things - except the last part. I do hope to become a bestseller - when I'm good enough to be one.


message 1348: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments Martyn V. wrote: "D.C. wrote: "What astounds me is that this is someone who didn't pay for it, doesn't have to read it, and would have had to read at least 8 or 10 pages to get to anything beyond a reference to "emb..."
Oh, trust me I'm aware of the antipathy LGBT individuals face, and yes, I would agree that attitudes in the U.S. are probably much more mixed than they are somewhere in Amsterdam. I could count on the fingers of one hand the places I've been where I would feel safe kissing another woman on the street.

As to the why I would package the book like a straight romance novel and was I trying to get readers to pick up gay fiction that they would not normally? My first reaction was no, and my second and more honest one, was not really. I certainly was not deliberately trying to get readers to think it was a heterosexual romance, BUT I was trying to present it as a mostly clean, if slightly bleak historical. I do get upset by the assumption that virtually all LGBT content is inherently adult.

The astonishment is really from the tone of the second review. The first person was clearly surprised, and not in a good way, but they were reasonably sensible. The second one was not, and in a day and age when it is possible to click on really extraordinary things accidentally, I really was surprised by the level of vehemence that "gay love" inspired.


message 1349: by D.C. (new)

D.C. | 327 comments It seems to have. I'm not sure what I think of the five stars since they're not really on merit, but I will say their hearts seem to be in the right place. I'm hoping the new cover will help with the issue. If it doesn't I may put something in the blurb although I would rather not.


message 1350: by Edward (new)

Edward Wolfe (edwardmwolfe) Linda wrote: "So to those who complain about the state of digital self-publishing today, I politely say STFU. You don't know how good you've got it. "

I'm clapping. :)

It's funny that you describe something that sounds completely awful - and it's something that so many of us had dreamed of being subjected to.

At some point, I started learning about the crapshoot that getting a publishing contract was and the tremendous number of rejections that authors got *prior* to becoming bestselling authors and I decided I wouldn't subject myself to that. I had no interest in playing the publishing lottery.

If I ever get contacted by a publisher, I'll tell them they can have the paperback rights and I'll keep the digital. I'd let them do what they do best - get my books in bookstores. But I don't need any help getting on Amazon. lol


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