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III. Goodreads Readers > Why don't more people read Self-published authors?

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message 1051: by Jordan (new)

Jordan MacLean (damerien) | 67 comments Amber wrote: "Funny. I have dysgraphia, a real condition that is almost like this "tyopglycemia". It's like dyslexia for writing. "

My brother was severely dysgraphic. He could not spell his own name the same way twice. He was a brilliant physicist and mathematician, though.


message 1052: by Vanessa Eden (new)

Vanessa  Eden Patton (vanessaeden) | 509 comments @Jt, hell yes I love that movie.


message 1053: by Ophelia (new)

Ophelia Sikes (opheliasikes) | 28 comments If you guys like Rocky Horror, did you see the "Psych Musical"? That has some Rocky Horror references in it :).


message 1054: by Karen (new)

Karen GoatKeeper (goodreadscomkaren_goatkeeper) | 21 comments I should send this private but don't know how yet. I would like to thank Martyn for the referrence to Critique Circle.

As far as errors are concerned: Books are full of them. You are referring to grammar and spelling errors. If you write nonfiction, facts are incorrect in lots of high profile books.
A friend is a botanist and is working on a book on Asclepiaceae (milkweeds). He finds obvious errors - even to me - in wildflower guides, botanical texts and more on the subject, even ones by people famous in the field.


message 1055: by Ian (new)

Ian Loome (lhthomson) | 101 comments Karen wrote: "I should send this private but don't know how yet. I would like to thank Martyn for the referrence to Critique Circle.

As far as errors are concerned: Books are full of them. You are referring to ..."


It's also the case that due to dwindling budgets, large publishing houses also put out weakly proofread books these days, as well.

I'd say the biggest issue with Indies is exposure; most people don't actually shop the way the various retailers expect them to: they don't use the extended previews, they don't mail themselves samples. They look at the number of stars, the number of voters and they perhaps read the first few reviews. But they don't even get that far unless the cover has 85% sold them anyway.

It's a hard thing, then, to get attention unless you're very, very good at schmoozing and are very social, and can spend all of your spare time plugging yourself online or becoming broadly engaged.


message 1056: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments L.H. wrote: "...It's also the case that due to dwindling budgets, large publishing houses also put out weakly proofread books these days, as well. ..."

Not sure that tight budgets are the reason for poorly-edited books. Unless you mean that lower budget = hiring of less qualified persons. Or perhaps reduced staff such that existing persons are rushed/overworked, resulting in more errors?

I daresay a contributing factor is also the overall decline in education standards and expectations = output into the working world of people w/ less than a firm grasp of the basics of proper written English. I see evidence of this every single day.


message 1057: by Ian (new)

Ian Loome (lhthomson) | 101 comments Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Unless you mean that lower budget = hiring of less qualified persons. Or perhaps reduced staff such that existing persons are rushed/overworked, resulting in more errors?"


Yep, that's pretty much it.

Richard, my perception is that isn't the norm for most ebook readers. People who read both print and ebooks tend to be more careful, I think.


message 1058: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Karen wrote: "I should send this private but don't know how yet. I would like to thank Martyn for the referrence to Critique Circle."

I'm glad to be of help, Karen. If you want to send me a private message, click on my name and in my profile you'll find 'send message' under my avatar. Works for pretty much everyone, except probably those who made their profile private.

As to the errors--I have intimate knowledge of weapons and combat and I find errors everywhere, but if they are not too obvious, I disregard them. Except if someone gets decapitated with a six inch throwing star...


message 1059: by Ophelia (new)

Ophelia Sikes (opheliasikes) | 28 comments Richard -

While I agree that a preview matters once you've *found* a book, the cover is critical in getting you to that stage. If it's not the cover that you clicked on during a browse, then it's that the author did a good job with their marketing, to drive you directly to their book. Somehow you had to get to the point of even seeing that preview amongst the millions and millions of options out there.


message 1060: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments I just received a review from Piers Anthony on my Sci Fi novel By Right of Arms.
He said "Devotees of old style space adventure should like this novel."
If you have an author you like drop them a line. The review is going to be on his website in the newsletter section next month.
All I did was ask.


message 1061: by Ian (new)

Ian Loome (lhthomson) | 101 comments J.T. wrote: "I just received a review from Piers Anthony on my Sci Fi novel By Right of Arms.
He said "Devotees of old style space adventure should like this novel."
If you have an author you like drop them a ..."


Excellent!


message 1062: by [deleted user] (new)

Kevin wrote: "I love reading self-published books.

Sure, there are some books that are full of grammar errors, but on occasion I find some in traditionally published books.

That reminds me of a funny story a..."
I know how that can happen! I found that "word" in the story I'm working on now. It's corrected now. I made the biggest goof of all when I wrote that a character was sterile because his father was. Oh, me! Since, I have given him a proper disease that could have caused it. Thank goodness I had writer's block and have not finished the book for publication.


message 1063: by A. (new)

A. Fae (truthaboutbooksbyafae) As a copy editor the errors in any books bother me. However, that doesn't deter me from reading self-published books. A good book is a good book--but I am available if a copy editor or proofreader is needed!


message 1064: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Martyn wrote: "Karen wrote: "I should send this private but don't know how yet. I would like to thank Martyn for the referrence to Critique Circle."

I'm glad to be of help, Karen. If you want to send me a privat..."


Really someone wrote that a person was decapitated with a six inch throwing star? Wow, have to release a lot of disbelief there. Was it like the "Glaive" on Krull and flew around and back and forth? I put that in quotations because a glaive was a 6-8 foot pole arm not an over-sized throwing star.

I could see the throwing star cutting into the throat with gushing blood and gurgling sounds. Hmmm Maybe I'll use that...


message 1065: by Arabella (last edited Dec 26, 2013 07:01PM) (new)

Arabella Thorne (arabella_thornejunocom) | 354 comments You know--as so many of you have pointed out above---its isn't the typos or spelling--because I have seen them in trad published books as well...You roll with the flow there. In my experience there is usually only a few.
Why I find it hard to read a lot of SP books is because so many of them are published by people who in their circle of friends are the only writer and they are encouraged to publish because their friends and family think they're marvelous.
Unfortunately they write sentences with 25 too many words. They never pay attention to words underlined in green or in red in their manuscript (if they are using Microsoft Word); they make continuity errors, all this on top of spelling, grammar, etc. I even tried an Australian writer who set a book in Colorado with American characters and yet continued to use terms common in Australian slang and completely unknown here.
YOU MUST GET YOUR BOOKS EDITED BY AN OBJECTIVE PROFESSIONAL
(was that too loud?) or risk being derided as a terrible hack.

But because of the ease of self-publishing---I'll bet you an awful lot of SPAs don't care. They will probably never grace us with their appearance on Amazon again *winces* because they got their book published, darn it. (And usually with a self-made cover)
Well, hopefully not...


message 1066: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Shea (lisashea) | 149 comments Arabella -

I agree completely that often self-published authors don't see their own flaws. They end up causing their reputation serious harm by having those flawed books out there in the market, constantly "eating away" at their potential reader base.

A potential reader who sees that issue-ridden book is unlikely to ever read the author's other works, even if that author improves.

Lisa


message 1067: by Darryl (last edited Dec 30, 2013 03:41PM) (new)

Darryl | 4 comments Hi ALL, this is a very important discussion. Firstly, I want to state that I have noticed errors in traditionally published books. Also, I agree that some SPA's make it difficult by producing poor work. I paid for what I could not do on my own and am confident that the product is good for the open market. Sometimes as a SPA we want to rush to get the book out in public.

I do book reviews (preferably non-fiction, self-help, leadership, relationships, Christianity). If you would like to engage in a book review exchange then I am willing to partner.

darrylbodkin@gmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/darryldbodkin
Darryl Bodkin
Parenting Your Child Leader: Strategies for Helping Your Child Achieve Their Leadership Potential


message 1068: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Marie Gabriel (lisamariegabriel) | 207 comments L.H. wrote: "I'd say the biggest issue with Indies is exposure; most people don't actually shop the way the various retailers expect them to: they don't use the extended previews, they don't mail themselves samples. They look at the number of stars, the number of voters and they perhaps read the first few reviews. But they don't even get that far unless the cover has 85% sold them anyway.

It's a hard thing, then, to get attention unless you're very, very good at schmoozing and are very social, and can spend all of your spare time plugging yourself online or becoming broadly engaged. "


Thank you so much for telling it as it really is! Success is all about interaction and contacts - even getting reviews seems to come down to schmoozing.


message 1069: by Ron (new)

Ron Albury | 56 comments To deal with typos and grammatical issues I use a proof reader.

However for plot and characters I have gone to a Focus Group of no less than 6 people. After they have read the book we all get together in a room for a couple of hours and discuss the book's strengths and shortcomings.

Let me also say that I believe some of the reviewers who post here are looking to ding SP books. My zombie parody, for instance, was written in 1st person and had a very specific target audience (age 18-30). I was dinged by some reviewers for insufficient proof reading because I used slang and "stupid Twitter conventions" like spelling "through" as "thru". I believe that because the book was SP they thought these things were oversights.

However, when I submitted the book to the "Writer's Digest" competition the reviewer understood what I was doing and gave me a score of 24/25. Here is part of that review:

As its title suggests, this is not a book for everyone, nor should it be. As I read its contents, I believed the book to be written by a twenty-something so I was quite surprised to learn that the author is a grandfather married for 32 years. I think it takes quite a talent and awareness for an author of his generation to capture a voice that is likely to be read and respected by readers decades younger than himself.

As soon as I began reading, I was drawn in. I found the content at varying times to be witty, poignant, sad, and funny. I think the author accomplishes exactly what he set out to do. Kudos.


message 1070: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Shea (lisashea) | 149 comments Ron -

I absolutely agree that books should go through a writing group / focus group / reviewing team to get a wide range of feedback. One person might be great with character relationships, while another might be great with environments. The more points of view you get, the more you create an appealing overall picture.

On the zombie book, I would say that comes down to having proper marketing material. A reader can't know if a book is right for them or not unless you explain what the book is about. If a book is meant to be read by those who love Twitter-speak, the marketing material needs to make that clear. Otherwise it's quite natural for others to be discouraged by only discovering that after they've bought it.

I know many people in the 18-30 age range who are actively annoyed by Twitter-speak, so it's not just an age group issue. It's also a subgenre issue.

Lisa


message 1071: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Ok I have promised everyone a link when Piers Anthony Posted my review in his newsletter. Here it is.

http://www.hipiers.com/newsletter.html


message 1072: by Gregor (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments J.T. wrote: "Ok I have promised everyone a link when Piers Anthony Posted my review in his newsletter. Here it is.

http://www.hipiers.com/newsletter.html"


That's pretty cool, J.T.. How'd that come about?


message 1073: by J.T. (last edited Jan 01, 2014 05:26PM) (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments I emailed him and he agreed to read it. He also gave me some helpful advice.


message 1074: by Gregor (new)

Gregor Xane (gregorxane) | 274 comments J.T. wrote: "I emailed him and he agreed to read it. He also gave me some helpful advice."

Very nice.


message 1075: by Tura (new)

Tura | 53 comments Lisa wrote: "L.H. wrote: "I'd say the biggest issue with Indies is exposure; most people don't actually shop the way the various retailers expect them to: they don't use the extended previews, they don't mail t..."

With million books out there, who has the time to read "extended previews" of everything? Most likely you have to have some interest to even skim a few, maybe because the name or cover piqued it, or it somehow drifted to your field of view - also known as marketing.


message 1076: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments @J.T.: Way to go!


message 1077: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Thanks Lynda. I am reaching out to other authors now see If I can get a couple more.


message 1078: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments And Lynda, I haven't seen you add either of my books to your to read shelf...

Just kidding.


message 1079: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Arrowood | 9 comments It doesn't matter to me as long as it keeps my interest. Popular or not doesn't make a difference. If I like the story line I may follow that author for other works just because it was a good read. I understand that myself. I am self published and it hasn't been easy to get recognition because I am an unknown. All authors were unknown at some point.


message 1080: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments J.T. wrote: "And Lynda, I haven't seen you add either of my books to your to read shelf...

Just kidding."


HA! I realized I probably shouldn't add any more books until I get around to reading at least one of them...

Unless you're planning on sending some thugs my way. Then, by all means, I'll add your books and anyone else's you recommend. ;) Sir.


message 1081: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments roflmbo, Nah I called them back hours ago. They were going to do a "wellness check" since I hadn't seen you post in a while


message 1082: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments I was real excited to get the good review (I think it is good coming from a multi-NYT BSL author)from Piers Anthony. He gave me some great tips too. I would have never thought to just ask if authors would do reviews.


message 1083: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Oh and they're not thugs, they are "Marketing associates"


message 1084: by eLPy (new)

eLPy eLPy | 86 comments Lisa wrote: "My theory on pricing is that new authors need to focus on building their fan base. Growing that substantial fan base is critical to all long term goals.

You want to sell as many copies as humanly ..."



Not that I'll be speaking from experience on this as I'm still trying to grow, and reach, my numbers but I am fully experiencing the necessity to increase my books visibility. And yet I wanted to comment on this comment by Lisa real quick as several examples came to find. But first I'll put myself out there and say my poetry e-book is for sale at $3.99. I'm happy with this price and don't think it should be higher although sometimes I wonder about it being lower. I've seen a number of self-published e-books that are 6.99, 7.99, 8.99 & even 9.99. That kind of blows my mind because $2, 3 & 4 seems to be much more standard; what would make SPAs think it wise to go much beyond this.

One example I've used before is that of Hugh Howey. He started publishing his novella at $0.99 because he was a nobody. He got a lot of readers right off the bat and is now an extreme success story. Fluke? No, well-written story, kept people wanting more.

Okay, another example: many years ago before I ever even thought about publishing or being a writer, a time when I filled my journals and wrote my poems for expression and release, I came across a man giving books away for free. It was an advanced reading copy of his novel. Of course I took it and eventually I read it; I felt rather special at that time to have an advance copy, that was until I read the book and found it to be...less than interesting. Honestly I don't recall much about the technical writing of the book but I remember that it was slow going and weird. I don't mind weird, but when it's slow and almost pointless weird is intolerable.

Recently I found that book and that prompted me to look it up and see what ever happened with the book and the author. Well, not many other people felt differently than me HOWEVER hundreds of people did pick up a copy, thousands if I remember correctly. Apparently this guy was all over the place giving away thousands of copies of his book. While we can't all afford to do this just imagine if the story had actually been interesting!!! He did what it took to be seen, sadly it seems he just didn't do what it takes to write a good story...

What do you want more to be seen or to make money...oh wait, if you're not seen you're not going to make money so inflated pricing won't help...

Good luck & Happy New Year!

eLPy


message 1085: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Shea (lisashea) | 149 comments eLPy -

You say we can't "afford" to give away thousands of copies but with ebooks it's completely free to do this. You're assuming that those thousands would have bought a copy but in most cases they wouldn't have :). They wouldn't even have known about you.

Especially if you have a series, giving away thousands (or heck, tens of thousands) of free ebooks is a masterful way to build up a loyal fan base. If your books are good, those fans then will gobble up the other books you have. These are all fans who probably never would have known about you if you hadn't done that first step.

You can't count potential money as real money. It's like the stock market. The only money you actually have is the stuff in your bank account :). The rest is all imaginary.

Lisa


message 1086: by eLPy (new)

eLPy eLPy | 86 comments Shaun wrote: "You know, one thing that's been said a lot is the whole discussion on editing and the reply that even traditionally published books have errors.

The question I want to ask based on that is, if yo..."



I think it means something different when you find typos in a self-published book because you know there's a chance that this is due to pure negligence or a complete lack of effort. When you know it's SP'd and there's numerous mistakes it feels like maybe they weren't serious about writing a book. I think these mistakes stick out most when the story isn't interesting enough to grip your attention.

I had a typo pointed out to me that I still can't get over. The typo isn't in the poem because I don't know any better, no it's really obvious and simple (so bad I worry that my software reverted back to a previous version of the document when it was upgraded, no joke or excuse). If it wasn't the software then it was my weary eye going over my own poems again and again and again looking for mistakes. I made pages of notes about arrangement, awkward lines, words and phrasing, & various other parts to my book and its poems that I didn't think cut it. But it's possible that I had read them so many times I'd memorized them to a degree and perhaps I glazed right over "you're" which should have been "your". So even though I thought, "This is poetry, I know how to self-edit for basic grammar and vocab; I don't need an editor but I will turn to one with any fiction or non-fiction I write," it would have been better had I had another person read it for the first time without knowledge of what comes next and what the message will be.

Is my typo due to negligence? Perhaps. Is it an innocent mistake? Sure. Is it due to lack of care or a genuine interest to produce a sincere, serious, honest piece of work that I think will stick with some readers? No. That said, you all now know this because I've told you, I've explained what went wrong there and shared that it bothers me tremendously. But I am also proud to acknowledge that my book is not riddled with typos and mistakes. But what about all the authors who don't care? What about the fact that most readers aren't going to read this, won't hear the authors they read talking about their mistakes? That's most people. Mistakes in SP books read like the author isn't serious. You know that there's a chance that person just jumped on CreateSpace typed up the story they wrote overly-caffeinated last week and hit publish hoping to make a quick buck or at least get some attention.

I will say when I read traditionally published books that have multiple mistakes I do care. I wonder how in the heck they missed that when they have so many different professionals working on and over and over a book.

A mistake here and there fine okay, but mistake after mistake? Nonsense on every page that's too much. And a last point, I think even better than saying Traditional publishing has gatekeepers is to point out that a traditionally published book caught the interest of more than one person most likely unattached to the story or the author. A self-published book isn't proof that more than one person or group thought the material was interesting enough to share.


Thanks for reading!
eLPy


message 1087: by Anne (new)

Anne Sweazy-Kulju (Anne_Kulju) | 4 comments D.C. wrote: "The other way for SPA's to rise above the muck is to release clean copy! Have someone proof your work. Real editing is one thing, and it will improve even good writing, but basic proof-reading is..."

This touches a nerve with me. I work with other authors to promote each other and some are self-published. Recently, I was asked to review a couple of books by SPAs in the group. OMG, they were awful! I tried but I could not force myself to finish either one. The first one should have had about one hundred pages deleted, mostly of the trite subplots and cliche expressions. I felt bad; the idea was a good one, but not in those inexperienced and unedited hands, apparently. The second SP book opened with a run-on sentence one paragraph long.

I did not review either book, as I will not trash a fellow author. I am a traditionally-published author, but I have zero experience or education in critiquing the works of others. I am, therefore, loathe to do it--I guess my point is, someone should have. I am 0 for 2; this may shed some light on why more people are not buying books by SPAs (which is, of course, horribly unfair to those SPAs who did their homework).


message 1088: by eLPy (new)

eLPy eLPy | 86 comments Lynda wrote: "Lisa wrote: "While I agree that I occasionally find typos and errors in published books, they are quite sparse compared with the frequency they tend to appear in self-published books. ...When I hit..."

I have to quickly second this and say that even as I've read good and bad SP'd books that doesn't keep me from reading more. I deeply appreciate credible resources that recommend good SP books to help me avoid the bad ones, but other than that the "Look Inside" feature helps greatly. I'm also more aware of SPAs and more interested in supporting them since I've published thereby gaining immense experience about what it takes.

I will have to add now as well that there is another thread taking place now about helping to find better SP reads. The person who posted the thread has decided to start a website wherein she posts book self-published recommendations. She plans to research the books first, screen them for consideration, then purchase the book. She wants to have at least 5 other readers agree with her recommending the book before she'll post it as a good recommendation. So check the thread out, list your title for CONSIDERATION or tell her you're interested in volunteering as a reader. But yeah, just check it out to in case I've not explained this perfectly! ;-)

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


Thanks! Stay warm, it's -1 degree F, up from -17 last night where I'm at!!!!

eLPy


message 1089: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Shea (lisashea) | 149 comments If we all avoid leaving poor reviews on poorly written books, they will end up only having glowing reviews left by well-meaning family members. People will buy the book, choke on the poorly written content, and it will build their bias against self-published works.

One can leave a review that is true without being nasty. There's always a way to phrase it that can be helpful. "I really enjoyed the character XXX and adored the sub-plot with the kitten. If this book had a good editor fix the typos and other errors, it could really shine."

Lisa


message 1090: by Elaine (new)

Elaine | 18 comments Richard wrote: "Lisa wrote: "If we all avoid leaving poor reviews on poorly written books, they will end up only having glowing reviews left by well-meaning family members."

Lisa makes a really important point th..."



If i find a lot of typos etcetera in a book, I always mention it in the review. At the end of the day, the review is not there to help the author, but to help the customer decide whether they are getting a good read or not for their money.

Yes, I have found sloppy writing in published books as opposed to self published, but not that often in comparison although there is one publishing house around - Head of Zeus - I have tried a few times to read their author's books and have always found plenty of errors in them.

On the whole, if it is a new author I always try the Look Inside feature before I buy, so I have a fairly good idea whether or not I am going to like something. I haven't downloaded and actually managed to finish a free book in months, mainly because of the editing. For that reason, I don't bother with free books anymore.


message 1091: by Shaun (last edited Jan 07, 2014 10:47PM) (new)

Shaun Horton | 248 comments The other problem with leaving bad reviews on SP author's books, is that in addition to the stigma of SP books being bad, there is a bit (lesser than the previous one, but just as bad when it happens) of a stigma of SP authors behaving badly when their work isn't applauded. This further leads to readers not wanting to touch self-pubbed works because of previous actions of the author, or the fears of reprisal if they happen to speak poorly of it.


message 1092: by Denzel (new)

Denzel Brooks | 84 comments Oh dear god, this topic is still going?!


message 1093: by Yzabel (new)

Yzabel Ginsberg (yzabelginsberg) | 262 comments Richard wrote: "But I find it hard to waste time/energy on poor writing in the first place, so the books for which I would leave the most negative reviews are not books that I have read in their entirety, because they're a waste of good electrons."

I get what you mean. I don't feel at ease with leaving a review on a book I couldn't finish. However, I also tend to think that if I couldn't finish it, it was for a reason, and when I do leave reviews, I always explain why it was a DNF. (To be fair, I also give it 25-30% to get me interested, and even then I finished more books than I gave up on, even though some were really bad.)

Shaun wrote: "The other problem with leaving bad reviews on SP author's books, is that in addition to the stigma of SP books being bad, there is a bit (lesser than the previous one, but just as bad when it happens) of a stigma of SP authors behaving badly when their work isn't applauded. This further leads to readers not wanting to touch self-pubbed works because of previous actions of the author, or the fears of reprisal if they happen to speak poorly of it. "

Ah, this is where my troll spirit enters the game. Oh, so poor Baby-Author can't stomach some criticism? Bring it on, Baby! I'm not going to keep mum just to avoid bruising your ego.
All right, I also agree that bad reactions from authors cast a bad light on everybody. I just can't cater to that coddling attitude of never saying anything in fear ("fear of reprisal", exactly) of people being offended and reacting badly. They're the ones making asses of themselves, and I do hope most readers are able to see the difference between a spoiled child and an adult author.


message 1094: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Denzel wrote: "Oh dear god, this topic is still going?!"

Why yes it is.


message 1095: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Anne wrote: "OMG, they were awful! I tried but I could not force myself to finish either one. The first one should have had about one hundred pages deleted, mostly of the trite subplots and cliche expressions. I felt bad; the idea was a good one, but not in those inexperienced and unedited hands, apparently. The second SP book opened with a run-on sentence one paragraph long.

I did not review either book, as I will not trash a fellow author. I am a traditionally-published author, but I have zero experience or education in critiquing the works of others. I am, therefore, loathe to do it--I guess my point is, someone should have. I am 0 for 2; this may shed some light on why more people are not buying books by SPAs (which is, of course, horribly unfair to those SPAs who did their homework)."


Anne, you are:
- a trade published author
- a reader
- someone whose worked has been professionally edited

Why wouldn't you be qualified to point out the flaws in other people's works? Pointing out that someone prematurely published is not 'trashing' them. You'll probably bruise their egos, but they should be grateful that anyone who has your skills/experience give them a heads up.

You don't need to qualify as a 'book critic' to review a book. No experience or education necessary, especially if you comment on craft issues that should not appear in published works.


message 1096: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments Martyn V. wrote: "Anne, you are:
- a trade published author
- a reader
- someone whose worked has been professionally edited

Why wouldn't you be qualified to point out the flaws in other people's works? Pointing out that someone prematurely published is not 'trashing' them."


I'm in complete agreement with Martyn: Leaving a review for a book that is poorly written and published prematurely is not "trashing" the author. It is being honest.

Because you ARE an author, you are passively promoting bad books if you know one is crap and you don't review it because (as an author) you know how much work went into it. I've heard this from a number of authors, and I just don't get it. If you know how much work goes into a good book, why would you not state publicly when someone calling him/herself an author has only done a fraction of that work? Unless you're insulting the author personally—and believe it or not, I read a review on Amazon just yesterday in which an awful reviewer insulted the author and called him fat—you're only judging the work, not the personality.

You know what is required to publish a good piece, and you are willing to go through all the steps to get there. NOT leaving a review is allowing the slackers to think they are special enough to exempt themselves from those same steps.


message 1097: by Martyn (last edited Jan 12, 2014 03:28PM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Lynda wrote: "I've heard this from a number of authors, and I just don't get it. If you know how much work goes into a good book, why would you not state publicly when someone calling him/herself an author has only done a fraction of that work?"

I do get it. Authors are encouraged to play nice and support each other. And they're right. Authors should support each other. They should not support 'crap artists'. As you say, someone calls him/herself an author, but refuses to do the hard work because it's so damn easy to push that publish button.

Just because publishing has been made easier doesn't give people a license to sell crap and pretend it's actually palatable.

Stringing words together in coherent sentences does not make someone an author, just as butchering a pig doesn't make someone a surgeon.

Plus there's another huge part, that has to do with our need to be loved. You won't get much love if you point out people's flaws. And you'll be resented the most by the people who are under the illusion that they are perfect and can't do anything wrong, like their parents have told them since they were born.

And God help those who will prove their parents wrong...


message 1098: by Ron (new)

Ron Albury | 56 comments Well, I'm perfect at least.


message 1099: by Tura (new)

Tura | 53 comments Lynda wrote: "I'm in complete agreement with Martyn: Leaving a review for a book that is poorly written and published prematurely is not "trashing" the author. It is being honest."

I'm with Lynda in this. The reviews are supposed to help the reader to pick a book, aren't they? 1 author vs X amount of readers, I would go for the honest review for the sake of most good for largest amount of people ;) if nothing else.
I don't know how it helps authors either if no-one has the honesty to point out how they could improve.

I have stopped reading the top reviews anyhow, I only read the bad ones now. The good ones are all "fantastic! +Repeat the blurb about the plot" while the 1-2 star ones are actually interesting (and often funny, the 50 shades has brought much joy to me in this way.) Then sometimes the only 1 star reviews are "Eep I don't like blood! (or sex or horses or the genre the book is in)" I think well, no-one has found anything objectively bad in it so maybe it's OK.


message 1100: by Brenda (new)

Brenda Clough (brendaclough) | 361 comments And if an author is so poorly balanced that she starts a flame war with you after you give her a one-star review, then she has many other problems other than bad writing, and psychactive meds are probably called for.


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