Why don't more people read Self-published authors? Showing 951-1,000 of 2,452

[Vanessa Eden]

@vardan...I love the Reiki influence in Fight Club.

[D.C.]

Mark wrote: "Mary wrote: "Sometimes you don't know if people are being hateful or helpful. I had the same experience in my college days, as a Creative Writing minor, Andrew. I submitted poetry to editors for ..."

Um, I know I'm fussy, but I'll notice. And if I notice too many, I'll get irritated and put the book down. Not that it's impossible to over-edit, but most of the time it's the under-editing that's more obvious.

I do think it's important for your editor to be a good fit for your style, and I've been fortunate in that.

I'm a highly literate person, I'm familiar with style manuals, and my father was an editor for many years. I appreciate an outside editor. It's hard to edit yourself, and many of the people who do it for a living don't try to edit their own work. You're giving excellent advice for producing clean, readable copy, and it may work for you as a final edit, but I don't think it necessarily would for most people.

[[deleted user]]

Elle wrote: "It seems that either people love to read self-published authors, or they refuse to. Why do you or don't you read self-published authors? Likewise, if you find a book that looks good but you find ou..."

I read lots of books by self-published authors, as long as they are in my preferred genres. Once in a while,I check one out that begins with lots of mistakes, and I don't order it. Most of the ones I do read are excellent.

[Justin]

Yeah, self-editing is pointless. It's good to do after you first finish something and you wish to go over it quick. After that though its best to find an editor because a lot of times one tends to miss their own mistakes.

[Mary]

I would LOVE to find a trustworthy editor...SERIOUSLY. Not finding one has driven me to self-edit. I agree I can't do it well, All-Hail.
Respectfully,
Mary

[Andrew]

Did I say I only intend to self-edit? No - I said that having a professional publisher doesn't necessarily mean you get a good editor. It's not a matter of bias - I'm writing fiction, not accounts of historical battles - but an author has to be allowed to determine their own style or they aren't writing their own books.

In terms of detecting mistakes in your writing, that's something that comes with experience. I always get other people to proof-read for me, but over time I've found that the number of red marks on the page has fallen. I've got better at reading closer to the page - which is a key reason why I find it harder to read poor quality books, self-published or issued by a normal publisher. If that skill couldn't be learned then editors would need editors.

If you're going to bandy phrases like "emotionally tied up" in what is supposed to be a serious discussion, I suggest you may be projecting your own issues onto other people.

[Laurie (barksbooks)]

If I'm following this thread correctly I believe All Hail may have been referring to Mark's comments in post #1131 where he referred to his work as his baby. If that is not considered being emotionally tied up in your work, I don't know what is.

"That is until someone pays me to allow another person to destroy my baby. I firmly believe we need to un-edit our world. Everything doesn't have to be written to a certain set of guidelines. "

[Andrew]

BarkLessWagMore wrote: "If I'm following this thread correctly I believe All Hail may have been referring to Mark's comments in post #1131 where he referred to his work as his baby. If that is not considered being emotion..."

Sorry, I missed that because he quoted me. Personally I've reached the point where the book I'm plugging has been kicking around so long I'd prefer to get on with another one. The industry seems to have other ideas.

[T.C.]

Andrew wrote: "If I ever go back and review David Eddings' books it wouldn't be pretty..."
They'd still get a very favourable review from me - they have their flaws, of course, but in general there's still a great deal to be said for them (and they are still a great deal better than an awful lot of other works of a similar kind, IMO).

Anyway, I agree about the business of SPA's having more 'power' thanks to the internet than they once did, and about much of the 'traditional' publishing industry being effectively in decline. The big advantage that it does give, though, in the case of the larger publishers at least, is access to an effective distribution network for paper copies. That shouldn't be underestimated, I reckon - ebooks are a great to get stuff out there, but rumours about the death of the traditional book are very much exaggerated. Many, many people still prefer the old fashioned way, and books don't really become 'bestsellers' (despite some dubious claims by some people) unless they are in paper, and distributed through a wide number of sources, including real shops.

My guess is that the ones who may be suffering most are the profusion of small publishers. I don't know, but they might be the ones who are ultimately going to get squeezed in the middle, if you see what I mean, between SPAs and the big boys. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of point in signing with a small publisher if you are managing to get your work sold on a self-published basis. A large company who can really get the books out worldwide and give a scale of marketing that an SPA can't hope to match, fair enough, but I guess the little guys are going to be offering less and less that an SPA can't get done for themselves.

[Andrew]

I suspect you're right about the small presses. Maybe that's what I've been seeing. And I agree about paper too - despite being a software engineer, I prefer a real book over the Kindle, it's just that the Paperwhite is handy to read on the commute. Real books are something to enjoy at bedtime.

[Vardan]

Vanessa wrote: "@vardan...I love the Reiki influence in Fight Club."

It is one of the singular films that is actually much better than the book :)

[Vanessa Eden]

I haven't read the book, but I would love to. That and American Psycho.

[D.C.]

I think the small press/large press may depend on genre. In mine (m/m romance) it's almost the only game in town, and I know some readers do look to particular presses as brands.

[Martyn]

(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "I find self-editing tacky, as there's no unbiased view. I also find it almost impossible to properly self-edit work."

I think self-editing has its place, which, in my view, is between the rough draft and the polished manuscript that gets send to the beta-readers/editors. So I don't think self-editing is 'tacky', but a polished manuscript shouldn't be published without having been checked by other eyes.

[Vanessa Eden]

I have been thinking about this thread. I had seen a thread on goodreads where spa authors were asked how long it to them to finish writing a book. Some responded a time span of a month or less! One of my favorite authors, Virginia Henley (don't judge me) stated that it takes her a year to finish writing one of her novels.
Then I am reminded of when Maya Angelou began writing and was told that her work was lacking and to fix this problem, she should write each sentence over and over. I wonder if more spa authors took more time in writing their books and paid much more attention to detail as Maya did then perhaps they would have fewer errors in their novels and thus keep from getting poor reviews.
You can't rush the writing process...it took Tolkien 40 years to finish The Lord Of The Rings and 50 Shades of Grey was complete in what, 3 years? Note the difference in the quality of material.

[Vardan]

Martyn wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "I find self-editing tacky, as there's no unbiased view. I also find it almost impossible to properly self-edit work."

I think self-editing has its place, which, in my v..."

True, true!

[Martyn]

Vanessa wrote: "You can't rush the writing process...it took Tolkien 40 years to finish The Lord Of The Rings and 50 Shades of Grey was complete in what, 3 years? Note the difference in the quality of material."

I'd be careful to relate the time spent writing a book with the intrinsic value of the work. Not all fast writers deliver shoddy work, nor do all slow writers deliver literary masterpieces.

[Vanessa Eden]

@Martyn, point taken. I surely do not mean this toward everyone but only to those who are less than confident in their skills ( particularly in grammar and syntax).

[Vanessa Eden]

@ All Hail, you are indeed correct; there is no ' correct' or 'appropriate ' time limit to write a novel. I am just meaning that to spa's who are not confident in their editing skill: perhaps taking a little extra time may help them ...along with an editor thereafter. I should have been more clear in my statement. My apologies.

[Vanessa Eden]

@ all hail ...I am glad we concur on something ;).

[Vardan]

and there was peace at last...

[Vanessa Eden]

like a bridge over troubled water ;)

[Vardan]

Vanessa wrote: "like a bridge over troubled water ;)"

tonight I walked the bridge of dreams (tale of genji)

[Vanessa Eden]

@ Linda, I usually spend a good deal of time making a detailed outline so when the story writing begins, I am more or less connecting the dots. In my second draft I began editing but I read through the rough draft many many times and made side notes for possible vocabulary changes, rearranging sentences, etc. So I agree 100% , if you prepare then it will indeed cut down on the time to write your story.

[Gregor]

Linda wrote: "Vanessa wrote: "@ All Hail, you are indeed correct; there is no ' correct' or 'appropriate ' time limit to write a novel. I am just meaning that to spa's who are not confident in their editing ski..."

It's often said that you have to write a million words before you've had enough practice to write well (or insert the 10, 000 hour rule here, if you like).

Writers used to have to get through their 1 million word apprenticeship in total darkness. Now they can do it out in the daylight for everyone to see.

[Vanessa Eden]

@vardan.
It's only right you should play it the way you feel it.
- dreams by Fleetwood Mac

[Vanessa Eden]

Well, said Gregor! :)

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Gregor wrote: "It's often said that you have to write a million words before you've had enough practice to write well (or insert the 10, 000 hour rule here, if you like). ..."

That may be, but if the million words (or 10, 000 hours) were done incorrectly, then the 'practice' essentially was useless, no? (written as I recall my childhood mishaps w/ musical instruments)

ETA: And as a reader who tried to read NTM authors, I don't care for writers 'practicing' at my expense. :(

[Gregor]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Gregor wrote: "It's often said that you have to write a million words before you've had enough practice to write well (or insert the 10, 000 hour rule here, if you like). ..."

That may be, but if ..."

Well, yeah, a novel-length work consisting of this single sentence "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" repeated over and over again certainly wouldn't count.

[Gregor]

Linda wrote: "Gregor wrote: "Writers used to have to get through their 1 million word apprenticeship in total darkness. Now they can do it out in the daylight for everyone to see...."

The latter scenario is, pe..."

Agreed.

[Gregor]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Gregor wrote: "It's often said that you have to write a million words before you've had enough practice to write well (or insert the 10, 000 hour rule here, if you like). ..."

That may be, but if ..."

I meant to imply that the practicing in darkness scenario was the preferable one, certainly.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Gregor wrote: "...Well, yeah, a novel-length work consisting of this single sentence "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" repeated over and over again certainly wouldn't count."

LOL! I was thinking more along the lines of consciously & consistently writing/typing properly (e.g., contractions vs. possessives, etc) day in and day out, but your example works as well. :)

[Gregor]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Gregor wrote: "...Well, yeah, a novel-length work consisting of this single sentence "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" repeated over and over again certainly wouldn't count."

LOL! I wa..."

Ha! Right. You'd need to study up on the craft, as well, not just fling words out willy-nilly.

[Martyn]

Linda wrote: "The latter scenario is, perhaps, why we have so many author meltdowns. Sometimes that learning experience should be done under cover of darkness and with the protection of privacy, where tender egos can take their blows but not be subject to public humiliation."

The self-publishing some people do is like buying a black belt in the martial arts online, then going into a dojo and complain about getting the shit kicked out of them. In a dojo, a black belt actually means you mastered the basics and you're a full student of the art.

Like has been stated before, many self-publishers don't know the basics of writing. First you learn the basics, then you join a critique circle to hone your craft, then you write your stories, then you self-edit your work, then you put it in front of beta-readers/editors, then you rinse and repeat until it's ready for publication.

That's how I got my black belt in writing. And I recognize where other people got theirs.

[Lisa]

I will enthusiastically recommend a good friend of mine, Jody Zolli, for any editing. She's been a technical writer for over twenty years, works for Akamai, is highly intelligent, and immensely compassionate. She doesn't change your voice. She helps your true voice shine. She's immensely skilled in all the basic typo / comma stuff and in addition can offer word choice options that often bring out exactly what you were thinking of. She's warm and nurturing. And there's no way she'd charge $6,000 for a book :). She is a joy to work with.

If what you're looking for is a read-through of your book with overall feedback, my BellaOnline Ebook Awards are now live, thanks to everyone here who encouraged me on that project -

http://www.bellaonline.com/ebookawards/

So that's an inexpensive way to get an overall sense of what needs attention in your book. And, of course, if it's already in awesome shape, you might just get that award :).

In general I concur with the rest that the best thing you can possibly do is master the basics. Create good quality work in the first place. That way your editing team and reviewers and other people are simply helping you find those occasional typos and mistakes we all have.

Lisa

[[deleted user]]

Even writers who can write great stories quickly without much preparation have been writing for years or sitting on a story idea and letting it simmer in their imaginations. For me writing is a craft. I cannot pin down an appropriate amount of time that should be spent on a story. But I know I have to spend time, a lot of time, if not writing, then doing other activities like coming up with dialog or thinking through the action of the story. For me the appropriate amount of time is what it takes to get the story right.

[B.C.]

Lisa wrote: "I will enthusiastically recommend a good friend of mine, Jody Zolli, for any editing."

Thank you, Lisa, for the recommendation. It's nice to be able to check into different editors from time to time. They each give such a different perspective on one's work.

Linda wrote: "Each story also is built on the foundations laid by the previous stories, on the craft polished on earlier projects."

Exactly. Everything written, and written well, hones the skill behind future projects.

[Vardan]

I think that while every new work does in a way build on the foundations of the old ones, the author must always be ready to experiment with their style and their storytelling technique. Thus, you can be a perfect mediocre author whom no one can really fault in anything but also one who does not inspire and you can be a constantly evolving, perhaps flawed but always interesting. Naturally if you can be both - be :)

[Vanessa Eden]

Well said Vardan.

[Vardan]

Thanks Vanessa! I am still waiting to hear your critical take on the overall feel of my works :) this waiting is killing me (over-dramatization...)

[Vanessa Eden]

are you shivering with antici.....

[Vanessa Eden]

....pation.

[Vardan]

anti...

[Vardan]

...perspiration

[Vanessa Eden]

That sounds ....unsexy lol

[Vanessa Eden]

@vardan...Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name...I like that.

[Vardan]

Vanessa wrote: "@vardan...Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name...I like that."

:)

[Lisa]

Hopefully a writer is always learning and growing, every day. There is always something to polish or tweak.

Lisa

[Vardan]

Lisa wrote: "Hopefully a writer is always learning and growing, every day. There is always something to polish or tweak.

Lisa"

At the same time, one needs to know when to let go and just hit that publish button :) otherwise you may spend writing and re-writing the same thing over and over again. The work is a bit like a photograph of who and what we are at the point of writing and while the grammar/technical issues must be fixed the essence should stay imho

[T.C.]

Lisa wrote: "Hopefully a writer is always learning and growing, every day. There is always something to polish or tweak.
"
The day I believe I've got it all spot on is the day I know I'm missing something fundamental!