Thirteen Reasons Why
discussion
Did Hannah try hard enough to live?
message 51:
by
[deleted user]
(new)
Feb 26, 2012 02:37PM
I agree. She did try her best. I think it's not possible that someone who sees no other option than to end their life did not try hard enough. What does this even mean? To try hard enough is a very relative term which could have another meaning for all of us. So, if someone reaches a point where they are not able to continue their life they take this step and I don't think that anyone has the right to judge over whether they tried hard enough or not. If Hannah decided to do what she thought was her only chance of finding peace she didn't see any other alternative. It obviously was her only way out.
reply
|
flag
Nope! She's a drama queen, a control freak, and an attention seeker.
JEEZ! i don't think that is true at all! To take your own life away is an incredibly drastic step you make when you feel like you don't have any other options! Do you know what those kinds of people are going through? Would you commit suicide to get ATTENTION?!?!?!
I didn't think the book was realistic. Hannah's "reasons" weren't all bad. Suicide sucks, and I don't mean to make fun of those kinds of people. I just think HANNAH was like that.
Veggy wrote: "I think she tried her hardest. having been there myself, its hard to talk about it to someone. Cuz you know that they will eather judge you or tell somone else and that just breakes your trust.
..."
I agree, I was there as well and people saw me differently and thought about me differently afterwards. I think Hannah tried her best in the situation she was in.
She was going through an incredibly hard time and all of her reasons were that bad! she witnessed a rape (basically experienced one), had a scary stalker and was hurt by everyone she loved!
She could've stopped the rape, she let Bryce do 'stuff' to her, the stalker quit stalking her when she confronted him, AND Clay didn't hurt her, and neither did her parents. However, I do understand your argument. Truthfully, I just thought Hannah was a weak character.
Vaughn wrote: "Heaven wrote: "The author (in my opinion) glossed over the real reasons why Hannah killed herself. It seemed like she skimmed over when Hannah was talking about being basically raped, but then whe..."
Okay so a few things:
1) Jay Asher's a guy? really? I did not know that...
2) You're probably right, I (thank God) have never been raped, so I wouldn't know first hand how you feel afterwards.
3) To answer your rhetorical question: I don't know if everyone would listen to everything I have to say. I've never told everyone, everything before.. In fact that would be weird. My question is, how is that relevant to anything? Are you referring to when I said Hannah felt like she had no one to turn to?
Okay so a few things:
1) Jay Asher's a guy? really? I did not know that...
2) You're probably right, I (thank God) have never been raped, so I wouldn't know first hand how you feel afterwards.
3) To answer your rhetorical question: I don't know if everyone would listen to everything I have to say. I've never told everyone, everything before.. In fact that would be weird. My question is, how is that relevant to anything? Are you referring to when I said Hannah felt like she had no one to turn to?
NO, she didn't, that's why I didn't like this book...
Shan'o'ban wrote: "JEEZ! i don't think that is true at all! To take your own life away is an incredibly drastic step you make when you feel like you don't have any other options! Do you know what those kinds of peopl..."
You'd be surprised how far some people go to get attention.
You'd be surprised how far some people go to get attention.
Just finished reading this novel. I believe hannah did tried her best to live because she somewhat tried calling for help. She gave clues. Apparently the clues weren't enough for anyone to realize she needed it. That's what get me. She did tried her best in her way, but to others they believe she didn't tried her hardest. In her own perspective she was trying hard to live. But to others she didn't. Everyone has their own views of this question. When you guys were reading this book , you have to feel that she was trying. She tried ignoring the thought of suicide but she couldn't take it anymore. That's why she gave up. The hot tub scene was important in the book because it indicate how she just let her self go. She didn't care anymore because she just had it. The scene with clay and her was also important because clay was too afraid to not listen to her when she told him to leave. Yes he didn't know anything but towards the end of the book he learned to help others such as skye. He didn't want to feel guilt inside of him again so in the end he goes up to her to listen. He could have done that with hannah, but I guess it was a lesson for him to learn not to be afraid of helping others and to also show that he does care not just keep it inside him. Mainly this whole moral is too help others if you feel the need to. Another thing is that hannah went to Mr. Porter and gave him all the signs hoping he would help but he did nothing and let her go. Hannah was already depress, she wanted help but in her way she wanted others to show that they care for her, that's all she ever wanted and yet she never received it. So technically, she did tried her hardest by waiting for others to show that they cared.
I know people will go very VERY far to ger attention. I know someone like that. But first of all, no one would commit suicide to get attention, because how could they if they were no longer living? Second of all, if someone wanted attention so badly, they would say they had severe depression, their father beat them or the dog or the mother. Or they'd have an eating disorder. See, people always want attention. They just choose to get the bad attention rather than the good attention. And I will NEVER think suicide is selfish. I am actually.... Disappointed to see people say that she didn't try. Did you read the book??? This is just my opinion, you are always free to have yours. So don't think that I'm not saying that.
Toastluvr wrote: "Nope! She's a drama queen, a control freak, and an attention seeker."I know this is your opinion. And I respect that. But really? How'd you get that idea? What did she ever control? What drama was she in that SHE created? What attention did she want? She tried so hard. No one would listen. Put yourself in her shoes. What would you do? (What would Jesus do? haha) Granted, I know you aren't her and she's just a character in a book. But there are thousands of people like her. Would you turn your back on your best friend if they were like this because you thought they were a "drama-queen. Control-freak. And attention-seeker"???
I believe that Hannah was all of those things. She always wanted to be in control. She wanted everyone to respect her, and ended up expecting too much from others. Hannah wanted people to realize what was happening to her, even though at the same time she was pushing them away, or letting them do the things they were doing. She was also a hypocrite. She put a fake face on for everyone, but is then deeply offended when Courtney Crimsen pretends to be her friend and just uses her. Hannah is very dramatic. She kills herself, instead of trying to erase the lies about herself and talking about how she felt openly. She also leaves behind the tapes, torturing the people who caused her death, even though some of them wouldn't have done the things they did if she had just been assertive, and one didn't even belong.
I think she tried, just not very hard. She gave it the minimum effort because she had already decided to kill herself. She went to a counselor once. There was nothing he could have said to make her change her mind.
If your will to live is low, and people don't seem to care, are you going to try that hard? I don't think so.
It depends because she was planning her suicide for awhile now if she had made tapes and sent them off to those people. Hannah thought in her mind that she had to be suididal, but she tried and tried to get someone to understnad and no one ever did.
I don't think she did. All her reasons for suicide were just teenage drama. I didn't think she had any valid reasons to commit suicide. She just didn't know how to cope with life or reach out for help.
I think Hannah tried but not in the way most people do.... she tried giving the signs to the counselor and everything but she didnt say it outloud to anyone, so she did try in her own way. Plus with what she went through her mind was already made up by the time she was really giving signs to the counselor and stuff....
I think she deffinatly just gave up. Nothing in the world be that bad that you should have to end your life. and her reasons, the bullying in school, was not worth it at all. She doesnt talk about her family or how they effected her, so did she have a loving family that she over looked? There was more to life outside of high school. High school is difficult for everyone. Yes the things that heppend to her were horrible and something should have been done but suicide is not the answer.
I think its sad that young people feel like this and feel like its the only way out. If they only knew high school is a thing of the past once you graduate and honestly things changed so much for me after high school and for the better. At that age, they don't make the best decisions because they are not mature enough. Something that might have bothered someone in high school prob wouldn't bother them at all now that they are an adult and realize the little things like that don't matter.
Am I the only one who wonders what Hannah's parents were up to? Shouldn't her parents be the ones who were responsible for getting her care, and not everyone else she came in contact with at school?
Lynne wrote: "Am I the only one who wonders what Hannah's parents were up to? Shouldn't her parents be the ones who were responsible for getting her care, and not everyone else she came in contact with at school?"
Teens spend 9 hours a day, 5 days a week (not including sports or clubs or anything) constantly surrounded by teachers and other students, you can't me they didn't notice that something was wrong.
Then she probably spent most of the weekends with friends, who should've (and probably did) notice as well, but they did nothing.
Plus, she had a part time job. That's what, forty hours a week?
The people she was probably around the least was her family. They would be the easiest to hide from. They weren't there when she was basically raped or when she was being bullied and it's easy to hide your pain at home. The fact is she probably only really saw her parents an hour a day, it's easy to fake a smile for an hour.
The sad truth is parents are generally clueless about what happens to their children at school. Hannah's parents are probably one of the only people who didn't suspect anything.
Teens spend 9 hours a day, 5 days a week (not including sports or clubs or anything) constantly surrounded by teachers and other students, you can't me they didn't notice that something was wrong.
Then she probably spent most of the weekends with friends, who should've (and probably did) notice as well, but they did nothing.
Plus, she had a part time job. That's what, forty hours a week?
The people she was probably around the least was her family. They would be the easiest to hide from. They weren't there when she was basically raped or when she was being bullied and it's easy to hide your pain at home. The fact is she probably only really saw her parents an hour a day, it's easy to fake a smile for an hour.
The sad truth is parents are generally clueless about what happens to their children at school. Hannah's parents are probably one of the only people who didn't suspect anything.
I think she tried a bit but not to much. She should've got help and talked to someone like therapist.
she did try but no one noticed. she showed some signs of thoughts of suicide but in the end no one helped her. when they wanted to help her it was to late. she was gone.
Good point. I don't know I find it sad that no one was there. Some of the stories she told were truly sad. Even though this is a book it could be happening to anyone you know.
Heaven wrote: "Teens spend 9 hours a day, 5 days a week (not including sports or clubs or anything) constantly surrounded by teachers and other students, you can't me they didn't notice that something was wrong.Then she probably spent most of the weekends with friends, who should've (and probably did) notice as well, but they did nothing.
Plus, she had a part time job. That's what, forty hours a week?
The people she was probably around the least was her family. They would be the easiest to hide from. They weren't there when she was basically raped or when she was being bullied and it's easy to hide your pain at home. The fact is she probably only really saw her parents an hour a day, it's easy to fake a smile for an hour.
The sad truth is parents are generally clueless about what happens to their children at school. Hannah's parents are probably one of the only people who didn't suspect anything."
I understand what you are saying, but I was a depressed teen and continue to fight through depression as an adult. And unfortunately I had 3 depressed teens. I guess parents should be more educated that anger is a sign of depression. I think most parents don't see it b/c they don't want to deal with it.
I think she was just so far gone she really just wanted any excuse to go, I mean she was all prepared for it had the tapes made ready to send, it's sad coming from such a sweet but mental character.
In my opinion I do think Hannah did try hard enough to live but probably the people around her didn't let her be who she is , and i think they kind of judge her , but she should also have gotten help and she would have been fine but she took the wrong way and decided to kill herself.
In my opinion I think this discussion itself is a bit comical. The book is about people not listening and not understanding. How others can be cruel and put down others experiences for either their own beliefs and/or morals. You can't go up to someone who wants to kill themselves and say "You can't commit suicide because it's morally wrong." In fact you can't even tell them that they shouldn't do it. They don't want it. Trust me, they are past that point. They've heard it all before, it's not like they don't understand what they're doing. All they want is someone to listen. No one does this anymore. Think of how many of the same people you see everyday. Have you ever even smiled at half of them? This book wasn't about the suicide. Think about it. It's about being judged for things that you really shouldn't be judged for. How no one gives a crap about what you've been through or what your life might have been like for you personally. You do not know how she felt. You're not her. Aren't you guys just proving the point of people simply looking at the small actions and not at the reasons behind them? You're just saying things like "suicide is never the answer." Yes. You're right. It solves nothing. But then again, neither does life, does it?
Yasmeen wrote: "Sydney wrote: "Actually, yes she did.... She went to the teacher/counselor and showed him all of the signs that she was suicidal, he didn't pay attention. She tried to show people how hurt she was ..."Depression can make you feel like you aren't worth fighting for, and that everyone would be happier if you were just gone. A person I loved a lot went through this. It's amazing that someone who was so bright and wonderful could only see herself as such a horrible monster. She had a long long list of things she hated about herself and reasons why the world would be a better place without her. It was very sad.
Cliona wrote: "#1UgliesSeriesFan!! wrote: "Hannah just gave up, she never tried to really reach out."I agree! Well she did a bit, like with the school counselor, but he tried to be nice, and when he did she wa..."
it's not. you're wrong. flashbacks to the last casette: hannah says at the end of the session: "i'm decided, i'm going to end it." as she stands up to get out of the office.
mr. porter says: "hannah wait, end what?"
and she says: "my life".
if someone told you they were going to end their life, and had informed you before that their life completely sucks and that they've seen all kinds of abuse in their most delicate years growing up. what would you do? wouldn't you at least show them you care 1% or even less about and hurry to check at least if they mean it??!! would you just stand still??!!!!
he simply gave her the following messege: you wanna kill yourself, be my guest, i can't help you.
I don't think Hannah really tried at all. The majority of what she went through was either brought on herself or was average teenage girl problems. If every teenage girl felt the need to kill herself over things like that then the world would have a horrible shortage of them. I know I wouldn't be here still.
Cause, you know, you've witnessed a rape, then been raped, and basically told by your counselor that your problems are insignificant unless you wanted to press charges and that you're not worth his time to help. Then throw severe clinical depression on top of that. I'm sure your teenage years went just like this and you have every right to judge. After all, you apparently brought all that on yourself.
Listen, many people who seemingly have everything, rich, great job, loved by everyone, have killed them selves because they had clinical depression. That has to do with their brain chemistry and how they're not getting enough serotonin(The neurotransmitter that makes you happy, or feel at a normal emotional level) or taking too much back in the reuptake process. She tried her hardest, for what she knew(She's only a teen). But no one helped her. Even if people saw the signs they would probably pass it off as nothing. It's simply hindsight bias to believe anyone would do any different. I know this because many people kill themselves everyday and it isn't like there are no sighs. People just don't look for these kinds of things.
Listen, many people who seemingly have everything, rich, great job, loved by everyone, have killed them selves because they had clinical depression. That has to do with their brain chemistry and how they're not getting enough serotonin(The neurotransmitter that makes you happy, or feel at a normal emotional level) or taking too much back in the reuptake process. She tried her hardest, for what she knew(She's only a teen). But no one helped her. Even if people saw the signs they would probably pass it off as nothing. It's simply hindsight bias to believe anyone would do any different. I know this because many people kill themselves everyday and it isn't like there are no sighs. People just don't look for these kinds of things.
I think some of you are forgetting one huge factor that separates Hannah from the average everyday teenaged girl who goes through a lot of the same things: HANNAH WAS SEVERELY DEPRESSED!Depression is a mental illness that can eat you alive. It can make the smallest thing seem like an unscalable mountain. A severely depressed person doesn't need a lot to push them over the edge, a simple tap can be all it takes. Depression makes you fixate on every little thing that's bad and every little thing you've done wrong in your life until that's all you see. It causes feelings of hopelessness and helplessness, which is why Hannah didn't see the point in pushing through. To her, it was never going to get better. Saying a Hannah didn't try hard enough to live is just like saying blind people don't try hard enough to see. It's nothing she could have willed her way through.
I'm sure you know that I HAVEN'T gone through any of those things, but that's not really something I'm willing to discuss with complete stangers thank you very much. And why does everyone think Hannah was raped? Hannah did put herself in the situation with Bryce. She knew what she was getting into and chose to let it happen. Just because you let a guy do things he shouldn't with you and then feel bad about it afterwards does not classify it as rape.
Julie wrote: "I'm sure you know that I HAVEN'T gone through any of those things, but that's not really something I'm willing to discuss with complete stangers thank you very much. And why does everyone think H..."
I agree that she wasn't really raped. She had sex with him, but wasn't attracted to him and didn't enjoy the experience at all. She admits that if she wanted to stop him she could have, and if she wanted to tell him no she could have.
I think she tried but she didn't actually want to live. She tried to reach out and all but nobody helped. I'm not saying she should have killed herself but she did. Killing yourself is not exactly an easy decision.
Personally, I think she could have just moved away and never went back to the place. She didn't REALLY need to kill herself and "blame" people.
Panda wrote: "Personally, I think she could have just moved away and never went back to the place. She didn't REALLY need to kill herself and "blame" people."
A 16-year-old girl can't just up and move away. And people hurt her, that's a fact. She didn't know how to deal with her pain and she FELT like she had no other options but death. Have you ever felt like you'd be better off dead? Like no one would care if you were gone? Do you realize how lonely that is? That's what Hannah felt.
A 16-year-old girl can't just up and move away. And people hurt her, that's a fact. She didn't know how to deal with her pain and she FELT like she had no other options but death. Have you ever felt like you'd be better off dead? Like no one would care if you were gone? Do you realize how lonely that is? That's what Hannah felt.
For me, Hannah tried but not hard enough. But when you think of it, the people who kill themselves didnt really try hard enough. If they did, they wouldnt kill themselves anymore.
I think that Hannah did try to live. She did talk to the counselor, but she was suicidal! You can't really expect to her to do everything she can to make herself live. She was tired of waiting for something good to happen. She was tired of all the crap she had to go through. You can't say that she didn't try hard enough when she had all those crazy thoughts going through her head. Someone else needed to save her, but no one tried enough. Or got there in time.
Scarecrow wrote: "Cause, you know, you've witnessed a rape, then been raped, and basically told by your counselor that your problems are insignificant unless you wanted to press charges and that you're not worth his..."totally agree, and for Julie, i think Scarecrow pretty much spoke my mind. and that's why i'm so WITH HANNAH despite being AGAINST SUICIDE.
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Yasmeen wrote: "Sydney wrote: "Actually, yes she did.... She went to the teacher/counselor and showed him all of the signs that she was suicidal, he didn't pay attention. She tried to show people h..."well, first of all, i'm extremely sorry you had to through this. i wish god would forgive her sins and lead her to heaven.
and you really just cleared out my point.
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "I think some of you are forgetting one huge factor that separates Hannah from the average everyday teenaged girl who goes through a lot of the same things: HANNAH WAS SEVERELY DEPRESSED!Depress..."
well, i agree with everything except for the last 2 lines.
before i continue i want to confirm i'm with hannah and every person going through a likewise condition, BUT it's just unfair to say she's like blind people. you have a mind, you have a will. check out this video, won't speak no more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZK667...
Panda wrote: "Personally, I think she could have just moved away and never went back to the place. She didn't REALLY need to kill herself and "blame" people."movin away from a certain palce is not exactly like Amega!! i think you know that. again, i insist she could've fought back and eventually got over it, but i don't agree whatsoever with people who make that process seem like a piece of cake, because it's not, and i think there wouldn't be a need for this discussion or a reason for this disagreement if you had -god forbid- experience what she went throgh.
obviously, i hadn not myself, but i've considered suicide as an option for a long time and more than once, and so i understand you need proffessional help when you go through that. for me, as tacky as it sounds, it was oprah. and therefore, i thank her for it.
Heaven wrote: "Panda wrote: "Personally, I think she could have just moved away and never went back to the place. She didn't REALLY need to kill herself and "blame" people."A 16-year-old girl can't just up and ..."
great choice of words, you pretty much summeriesed (don't know if the spelling is right) it all.
Hannah did try but honestly how much can one handle? She told teachers/counselers and they hadnt done anything about they just ignored what she had said and just moved on with it.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
