Helter Skelter
discussion
Was it really scary?
message 51:
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Alice
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rated it 3 stars
Nov 20, 2012 11:19PM
It was and should still be, but too many will see it as nothing more than an episode of Criminal Minds. People are too numb to evil and terror now.
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Alana wrote: "Every October I ready scary books for Halloween. This past October I picked up Helter Skelter cause I heard it was super scary. But I only got through like 20 pages. It was just so dry and from ..."Yes, it gets better. I've read it many times, it is one of my favorite books. The things they did in that community can only be described as chilling. There is also another book, I'm not sure of the title, it has been awhile since I read it, but it is Charles Manson's story. An author went to visit him in prison and his story is very enthralling as well. I hope you check it out!
For those who didn't think Helter Skelter was scary enough ... Give The Devil's Butchershop a go ... It's about the 1980 New Mexico State Prison riot and it makes the Manson Family's doings look silly by comparison.The book about Manson in prison is called Taming the Beast by Edward George ... Insightful, but it paints Manson somewhat as a victim.
Admittedly, I read this book when I was a freshmen in HS, and I would have dreams that Manson knew about me and would plan to have me killed. I'd have to quit reading for a few weeks until the dreams stopped before I could continue through. Not sure how I'd react now that I'm older and more experienced (per se).
I felt a connection to Helter Skelter because I lived close to Death Valley in the 70's. Other than that it was a dry book, no real insight into the killings I thought
Alana wrote: "Every October I ready scary books for Halloween. This past October I picked up Helter Skelter cause I heard it was super scary. But I only got through like 20 pages. It was just so dry and from ..."Yes, its pretty damn scary but you have to be tuned into this kind of thing to appreciate it. Some people are and some people aren't. Its not a question of your mental caliber; more about what subjectively scares you.
Writing style comes into it somewhat; Buglioso was not a writer by training. Still, it was exactly that--his authenticity and authority in the case--his having been up-close and personal--a regular joe--who's involvement with this utter bizarreness, made it all the more effective.
This incident and this book scared a lot of people. Manson was one of the first crimes of its type to take place in a relatively 'modern' phase of American life. That is, an America which was all connected together by nightly news.
America always had random, infrequent, gory crimes but we also have short memories; and when something takes place at the opposite end of the country we always say, 'poor bastards' and assume its still safe wherever WE are. Its a huge damn country.
But Manson changed all that. It suddenly seemed as if no one was really safe anywhere; after Manson, no one ever opened their door to a stranger's knock without apprehension. Many people stopped opening their doors at all. Its a sad and depressing story; actually...if you started reading it I advise you to stick with it. Not so much for the horror element but for the understanding of psychology and society the whole tale offers.
It is the best true crime novel I've ever read, and I've read a lot of them. The thing that makes the story scary is the psychological hold that Manson had over his followers and that it really did happen. Keep reading it! Once they get to the trial of Manson and the girls, and you start reading Linda Kasabian's testimony, I think you'll find it hard to put down.
I thought it was very scary but not horror movie scary. You know it happened, you know the people were insane yet they believed they did something right. I found the writing pretty good and his courtroom reporting very insightful. I was so taken by this book, I spent an entire day after I finished reading up on Manson, watching YouTube clips of his followers from years after. Truly fascinating yet extremely scary.
for those seeking a decent documentary on the Manson case, try "The Six Degrees of Helter Skelter" ... it can be streamed on Netflix. It is definitely better than any of the cable documentaries out there.
I first read this book in the early '80's and it scared me to death. I found myself only reading it early in the day -- never close to bedtime. Since then I've re-read it and I think it's one of the best true-crime books ever written. I would put it along side "In Cold Blood" as far as the quality of the writing.
Dachokie wrote: "for those seeking a decent documentary on the Manson case, try "The Six Degrees of Helter Skelter" ... it can be streamed on Netflix. It is definitely better than any of the cable documentaries ou..."Thanks! I'll check it out.
Jennifer wrote: "It is the best true crime novel I've ever read, and I've read a lot of them."Was this book a novel?
Jonathan wrote: "Hippies suck"
As the book pointed out, they were "right-wing hippies." They wanted to ignite a race war by making people think blacks did the murders. Hardly the hippies of Greenwich Village or Haight Ashbury.
Ha. "Hippies" gave Jonathan everything he has ever enjoyed in his life... he's just not astute enough to recognize it. He's got plenty of company these days.
I read this when I was a teenager and remember me absolutely enthralled with it! I remember asking myself if I were normal because I do enjoyed reading about the macabre and evil!
It is by far the best true crime story I have ever read.I was a career prosecutor for 30 years and i remember reading it in 1976. I was mesmerized. If you didn't live throught the Manson killing spree and his crazy mantra Helter skelter, it may not resonate with you.But uf you want true grit and a brilliant investigation and prosecution, this is it.It is fascinating to learn what was behind the controlling monster's philosophy and how Bugliosi was able to put it all together.The man worked 80 hour weeks for two years.I am still amazed at his feat. Force yourself to read it-you won't be disappointed.
Harold wrote: "It is by far the best true crime story I have ever read.I was a career prosecutor for 30 years and i remember reading it in 1976. I was mesmerized. If you didn't live throught the Manson killing sp..."I was just becoming a teenager the summer when these murders occurred and I remember reading every newspaper article I came across. I agree about Vincent Bugliosi. He almost single-handedly got convictions for this group of murderers. He's also an excellent writer.
I also enjoyed "And the Sea will tell" as well as "Til Death do us part".The guy is brilliant but a bit arrogant. I remember a fabulous TV show years ago where Bugliosi was the prosecutor in trying to prove that Oswald was the lone Kennedy assasin. Gerry Spence, a famous Wyoming "I'm one of the people" type lawyers argued that there was a conspiracy.
In my opinion, Vince wiped the floor with Spence but the mock trial jury found for a conspiracy. If there is a way to get the show, I highly recommend it.
I just looked it up on google.Here is the summary under Spence-WikopediaIn 1986, Spence defended Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, against well-known prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi in a 21-hour televised unscripted mock trial sponsored by London Weekend Television in the United Kingdom.[11] The mock trial involved an actual U.S. judge, a jury of U.S. citizens, the introduction of hundreds of evidence exhibits, and many actual witnesses to events surrounding and including the assassination. The jury returned a guilty verdict. Expressing admiration for his adversary's prosecutorial skill, Spence remarked, "No other lawyer in America could have done what Vince did in this case." [12] The "docu-trial" and his preparation for it inspired Bugliosi's 1600-page book examining the details of the Kennedy assassination and various related conspiracy theories, entitled Reclaiming History, winner of the 2008 Edgar Award for Best Fact Crime.[13] Several times in the book Bugliosi specifically cites his respect for Spence's abilities as a defense attorney as his impetus for digging more deeply into various aspects of the case than he perhaps would have otherwise
A laywer/Kennedy-related sidebar ... Buck Compton (one of the paratroopers made famous by the Band of Brothers book and TV series) prosecuted Robert Kennedy's assassin, Sirhan Sirhan. Compton wrote an interesting book about his life: "Call of Duty"
Harold wrote: "I also enjoyed "And the Sea will tell" as well as "Til Death do us part".The guy is brilliant but a bit arrogant. I remember a fabulous TV show years ago where Bugliosi was the prosecutor in tryi..."
I've read those, also, Harold, along with his book about the O.J. Simpson case. Although I remember the mock trial you mention, I didn't see it when it aired. It may be available for viewing via DVD or iTunes, etc. I also remember Gerry Spence from the Simpson trial. He was one of the many lawyers who appeared on the various outlets covering the trial. I mostly remember his fringe leather jackets and white hair. Came across as very folksy.
I loved that series.Perhaps the best WW11 series ever.That sounds interesting too.Thanks
Claire wrote: "Harold wrote: "I also enjoyed "And the Sea will tell" as well as "Til Death do us part".The guy is brilliant but a bit arrogant. I remember a fabulous TV show years ago where Bugliosi was the pro..."
Exactly right! I doubt he would have had the same success in New York.
I didn't read the OJ book because the whole mess made me ill.
Harold wrote: "Claire wrote: "Harold wrote: "I also enjoyed "And the Sea will tell" as well as "Til Death do us part".The guy is brilliant but a bit arrogant. I remember a fabulous TV show years ago where Bugli..."
I liked Bugliosi's book Outrage about the Simpson case because it broke it down into what he considered the 10 reasons the case was lost. I also found it memorable when he stated that if a jury doesn't understand something -- you break it into small pieces and 'spoonfeed' them. I believe that was the term he used. I'm sure that's what he would have done if he had prosecuted that case.
No doubt.He would have not have allowed Judge Ito to have rolled him over.He would have had the gravitas to intimidate ITO. The result may have been different.
The book is only scary because it's a true story. Full of facts and what not. It makes you realize how truly sick some people can be.
Especially how easily people willingly give up their sense of self for some "guru".
Well, as a 14 year old, it was very boring. But, I have a facination with all kinds of things like this so I did enjoy it. The phychological part is wonderful, but it's mostly for if you need to so research. It does change people, though.
Very scary, if this were a novel it would be a horror genre book. I found it even scarier because it was true.
no i wouldnt say its scary its very much like a very detailed true crime show.i will say its scary as its true and to know their are such evil out their is!!!!THIS BOOK DRAGGED FOR ME!!!took me awhile to get through...
Sheila wrote: "Actually, those that were convicted of the murders (Tate/Labianca) are still in prison. Susan Atkins (Sadie) one of the three women sentenced; died of cancer a few years ago (She'd asked for a med..."Leslie Van Houton was released for 24 hours on a mistake, then thrown back in jail. This happened several (maybe even decades) years ago. It is of great controversy whether or not Leslia would be in jail for this long if this was any other case. Technically speaking (as given evidence in Helter Skelter) she only stabbed a dead body, but was still present at the time. Patricia Krenwinkle and Charles Manson are still in jail as well. Susan Atkins died of Brain Cancer in the Women's Correctional Facility in 2009. Charles (Tex) Watson is in jail in Texas, as his brother in law was a former law=enforcement there at the time, and refused to allow extradition knowing the result in California. (But then again, Texas has a history of protecting the insane and murderers). Several other of the "Family" members (including Linda Kasabian) now live (often under different names) in the Pacific Northwest area of the country.
What people don't realize is that Charles Manson NEVER killed anyone (on these two nights of Helter Skelter at least), he just orchestrated it.
What's scary about this book is that it is TRUE! These people did succumb to a man with great charisma who led them down the Garden Path to Hell. We all say "I would NEVER do that", but how many of his followers thought similarly before the initial meeting of The Devil?
You may want to read the book Escape From Freedom which is a great social psychological study of people and societies that want to be controlled by a higher authority including Hitler
What is scary about this book isn't the actual killings. It's the fact that a man (with as much charisma) could control a group of people to the extent of committing murder. It's the fact that a group of "typical American kids" (and remember members consisted of a cheerleader and a church youth minister, and several straight A students etc...) could surrender to such an individual.As for Tex Watson, he ran off to Texas (where he was from) because his brother (in law) was in law enforcement. Knowing the death penalty existed in California at the time, he kept Tex safe and refused extradition to the state. Tex was tried in Texas and is still there. His book "Will You Die for me" is among the list with Susan Atkins "Child of Satan, Child of God".
a new book being released this week seems to be interesting:
I just ordered that book, Dachokie. It sounds interesting. Very little was mentioned about Manson's family other than his parents -- an absentee father and negligent mother -- in previous books.
I read Helter Skelter when I was in high school. Something about Manson is very scary. I, like a previous person posted, also had nightmares; maybe because it was the first blatant, brutal murder I had ever heard about. And that FACE! Manson's eyes are still bored into my brain.
I thought it was freaky...the way he manipulated people into thinking he was Jesus, how the innocent were massacred..and to think he was the one behind it all. It scares me because there is people that can brainwash innocent people into doing obscure acts of violence such as this and not feel any remorse. I thought the book was written very well and it scared the bejesus out of me.
I read this book years ago and thought Bugliosi did a good job writing it and found it really interesting. I would recommend it to anyone curious about what really happened. It is just unreal for me to think that these "kids" were drawn to such a freak and did what he told them to. I actually think they were all more than a little "off".
I agree, Merry, but consider soooo many people today who are swept away by less than what Manson offered. People want to be a part of something...anything. It is really incredible to me.
Scared the hell outta me, it is the "REAL" part that makes it really freaky!
I found that Bugliosi gave a clear picture into the mind of Manson. It's fascinating to see how much control he had over his "family". It should serve as a cautionary tale of what one evil man can do.
I am just about done with this book, Helter Skelter. So far, it has been a pretty good read- Does anyone have any other true crime reads they could suggest I pick up after this one? Something you "just can't put down"? The scarier the better....
I read the Michigan murders case early in my career as a Superior Court Prosecutor. It is in my top 3 of true crime along with Helter Skelter and The Stranger beside me (Ted Bundy).http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15...http://www.annarbor.com/news/the-mich...
Mallory, I thought House of Secrets by Lowell Cauffiel was terrifying! Not in the same way as Helter Skelter, but in its own right.
Mallory wrote: "I am just about done with this book, Helter Skelter. So far, it has been a pretty good read- Does anyone have any other true crime reads they could suggest I pick up after this one? Something you "..."Try Fred & Rose by Howard Sounes. It's not scary but it gives you that "uncomfortable" feeling, that people can be so sick.
A definitive account of the 1982 New Mexico State Prison riot ... makes the Manson Family's deeds appear like child's play. Definitely should give you an "uncomfortable" feeling ... nothing I've previously read compares to it ...
I am a Stephen King fan, so I read scary books, this was truly scary, because it was real, and really happened.
I am 53 years old and I first read Helter Skelter when I was in Grade 6 (around 11/12 years old). I was trying to think what in the world would have compelled me to read a big thick book like that or the fact that the I would not have known who Charles Manson even was...but the truth of the matter is that I obviously had the interest in True Crime (obsession, really!!) by then and had picked up on a conversation my parents and Uncle we're having over dinner one night about Manson. to answer the question "was it scary?" I think "scary" is the wrong adjective. Most true crime readers will tell you that what draws them into a story is an author's ability to make the book flow - that is to tell the facts of the case clearly, accurately and in a order that makes sense to the reader and leaves them hungry for more facts as the book goes on. I felt Helter Skelter was such a book - author Vincent Bugliosi was amazing at spending just enough time on each character and fact so as not bore you but to inform you - I devoured every page as I recall and then turned around and re-read it a few months back Helter Skelter remains one of my all-time "good reads"
Not sure 'scary' is the right word to describe this. Maybe gory, sad, upsetting, graphic are better words. Only my humble opinion.
