Vampire Books Fans, Fangs and Writers discussion
What kind of vampire would you write about?
Sadly none of the books mentioned here so far appeal to me. One of the reasons I started writing my own vampire book two years ago was because I coudn't find anything I wanted to read. I am influenced by Dracula and A. Rice's first book. I needed a vampire who has to live among humans and dislikes the modern world but has no real choice. He cannot be destroyed by any means. Some have told me that this aspect makes the vampire "boring"--there has to be a vulnerabliity. I see this inability to escape as the vulnerability. Also the planet is not crawling with vampires; there are only "3" known of, including my protagonist. His abilities are similar to those found in traditional vampire works. There is sadness, humor, backstory. The vampire is neither all good nor all evil...your thoughts, vampire readers."..
While not a vampire story, although it does have vampires in it, Glen Duncan's The Last Werewolf deals with the psychological and moral dilemma of being the last of a kind, and the themes of isolation, existentialism and dissonance seem to reflect those you write about.
Yes! The theme of isolation is prominent in my story; existentialism and dissonance as well. How does one cope when one is forced to become a creature that all fear and despise? And I needed my vampire to be grounded in reality; you have to come away believeing it is exactly as I have said.
I'm currently working on an idea that's a bit more, shall we say, shallow, for want of a better word, than the deep broodings of what does being alone mean. I've tried adapting the supernatural races so that they fit seamlessly into human society, modern society. As part of an enforced evolutionary process called 'the human condition', the supernatural element which I consider 'transhuman' has been coerced by the fear of exposure into blending in, but still retain their unique abilities.
Evangeline wrote: "I just published my story FALLEN and it is really more of a Gothic Novel than anything, though it is full of vampires! Because I wanted that Gothic feel I stuck to the true Romanian Lore, there is ..."So where does one find your book?
Woolfie wrote: "I'm currently working on an idea that's a bit more, shall we say, shallow, for want of a better word, than the deep broodings of what does being alone mean. I've tried adapting the supernatural rac..."Not sure what you mean by the supernatural races but your ideas sound intriguing. And well thought out.
Sandrine wrote: "Woolfie wrote: "I'm currently working on an idea that's a bit more, shall we say, shallow, for want of a better word, than the deep broodings of what does being alone mean. I've tried adapting the ..."Well supernatural races, such as vampires, werewolves, fairies, dwarves, giants, just your usual fantasy and horror staples, adapted to fit into a world full to bursting with us pesky humans. And it's a rather premature idea, but I'm working on it when I can.
Woolfie wrote: "While not a vampire story, although it does have vampires in it, Glen Duncan's The Last Werewolf deals with the psychological and moral dilemma of being the last of a kind, and the themes of isolat..."Though I don't like werewolves as protagonists (ok as creatures in movies but I just cannot take them seriously out of all the realm of supernatural creatures) but you may have convinced me to read Duncan's book.
Woolfie wrote: "Sandrine wrote: "Woolfie wrote: "I'm currently working on an idea that's a bit more, shall we say, shallow, for want of a better word, than the deep broodings of what does being alone mean. I've tr..."Well, Wow. That is great. I'd look forward to reading more about this.
In a way I think Werewolves deserve more focus than they receive, I mean sure I understand the allure of the vampire, but the twisted anxieties of a person who is, in some cases, still mortal, turning into a bloodthirsty killer once a month cuts a rather hauntingly sad and tragic figure, and then there's the question of will the werewolf embrace his bestial nature, or will he resist it.I sort of divided the werewolves in to the lycanthropic Fenriks, who, like lycanthropes, are human on the outside and something else internally, and the lupine wargs, shape shifters that can only change into one animal, in this case, the wolf.
Woolfie wrote: "In a way I think Werewolves deserve more focus than they receive, I mean sure I understand the allure of the vampire, but the twisted anxieties of a person who is, in some cases, still mortal, turn..."Werewolves are interesting as metaphor for the monster in all of us. Like many monsters created or recreated in literature over the years, they represent a fear in mankind that we ourselves are monsters and there is something uncontrollable in us that sometimes takes over. You don't see this often in some of the newer stuff out there. Ironically, one of the best werewolves I've seen was Oz on Buffy. He was just a normal kid who knew that once a month he became an uncontrollable killer. While the newer wolves are pretty entertaining, I would like to see a work where there was that conflict and that fear that at any time, we might turn into a monster.
Woolfie wrote: "In a way I think Werewolves deserve more focus than they receive, I mean sure I understand the allure of the vampire, but the twisted anxieties of a person who is, in some cases, still mortal, turn...""It is better to have the body of a beast
But the heart of a man
Than to have the body of a man
And the heart of a beast."
I think that is from the Company of Wolves movie.
I like your comments and your insight.
Have you read Anne Rices werewolf book? I probaly will not. I'm sure she only wrote it to ruin my life.
LOL. I was quite intimadated by her vampire characters and was SO relieved when she gave all that up. And now, dammit here she is back again. I loved her first book, and I grudgingly still like her. Somewhat. She's maddening. Wow..I've gotten off the subject...
Ardy wrote: "Woolfie wrote: "In a way I think Werewolves deserve more focus than they receive, I mean sure I understand the allure of the vampire, but the twisted anxieties of a person who is, in some cases, st..."Yeah, there is an unmistakable allure there. Werewolves share the same angst that vampires might have. Being made/thrust into being something you are not; being feared and despised because of something you are but have no real control over. Those are the themes I explore also.
I loved the tragic/comic aspects of American Werewolf in London. I don't think I've seen anything better since then.
Hi, I just joined the site and the group. I'm working on a vampire book that I hope to turn into a series. Research into folk beliefs about vampires in combination with the more modern fictions help shape my vampires. I have two kinds, living and undead. The living have been turned by drinking a vampire's blood but have not died. Some of my characters argue that vampirism is a disease that might be cured; others say they are all undead monsters who can only be stopped by killing them. My live vampires are sensitive to sunlight but can endure it. They are not as powerful as the undead. It is very difficult but not impossible for them to have children the human way. The undead have been killed and their bodies have rejuvenated. They can't go out in daylight, and they are sterile. All my vampires need blood to survive and cannot stomach other food; some can put off regurjetating it longer than others. All my vampires used to be human and are driven to be violent, and sometimes possessed, by demons. To resist those urges is very hard, so I don't have any "good" vampires. Are they redeemable? That is a question my books-in-progress explore. In general, the dead vamps are more evil and powerful than the live ones.
Woolfie wrote: "In a way I think Werewolves deserve more focus than they receive, I mean sure I understand the allure of the vampire, but the twisted anxieties of a person who is, in some cases, still mortal, turn...""Turning into a bloodthirsty killer once a month"--sounds like P.M.S.! Just kidding, but it's something to think about.
Absolutely, and ironically you don't see any female werewolves particularly in werewolf film, hmm monthly transformations, PMS that makes sense, someone should use that as a central concept, but it might be deemed misogynistic or sexist!
Based on the research I've done, the idea that vampires and werewolves are archenemies is a modern development. Do the rest of you agree? In some folklore, they were perhaps one and the same, as in the wolf that devoured the moon at eclipses. In Stoker's Dracula (the original book, not the movie), the vampire took the form of a wolf when he ran from boat to land, and he loved wolves, his fellow creatures of the night.Does anyone know where the concept of vampires and werewolves as mortal enemies came from?
Well I've not explored to roots of supernatural lore in terms of vampire and werewolf lore, but you're right, in Dracula, they're not antagonists, but then in more recent film adaptations such as Hammer horror films and the Underworld movies conceived by Wiseman and Grevioux, werewolves seem to be subordinate to vampires, either as slaves, or as servants. It's when that dynamic is inverted, or challenged that the idea of conflict between the species arises. In that sense it parallels social attitudes towards the ruling class, and their lessers, whether they are slaves, servants or their oen people.
While doing research for my books I discovered that gypsies often used wolves as protection against the undead. I think the modern werewolf vs. vampire thing might have its roots in those old legends, but mostly I think it was just a developement that some writer found to be interesting and others ran away with it. Gypsies also used cats, but I rarely see cats fight vampires in film or literature.
Both of you make a lot of sense there.I find that research into older traditions can lead me into more "original" takes on the theme. I haven't decided whether my story world will have werewolves or not, but I have one vampire who has a close identification with wolves and, by extension, wolf-like dogs. Haven't worked out all the details yet. I find it easiest to develop one vampire at a time, and their abilities and specialties vary. Still, I have to establish some rules that apply across the board.
Ginger Snaps played on the whole girls becoming women analogy.My guess is the vampires vs werewolves struggle came out of the World of Darkness role-playing culture.
As I recall from the highly educational and informative film Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein, the Wolf Man was responsible for the death of Dracula. I don't know if it was simply those two characters who hated each other, or if it was evidence some greater universal Were/Vamp animosity, but weres fighting vamps goes back to at least 1948.
Since I'm not a wrighter, I would'n know. Wish I was an author, though.
How about, the meanest, badest, vampire in history, all because of his love for the human's around him Also he's looking for a cure, for his ,condition for,the woman he is in love with. I know this has already been wrighten, but an author could make it differant, somehow.
I fail to understand why the meanest, baddest vampire in history would love the humans around him--except the taste of their blood. Now if he somehow fell in love with one woman among them who was different from the rest, that might be a conflict worth reading about. But what were you suggesting the love for all the humans around him would drive him to? Searching for a cure, or something else?
Woolfie wrote: "Absolutely, and ironically you don't see any female werewolves particularly in werewolf film, hmm monthly transformations, PMS that makes sense, someone should use that as a central concept, but it..."You can accuse REALITY of being sexist. Men and women are made different. That's a fact of nature. I don't think difference is sexist, only inequality or superiority/inferiority ideas are. Everyone has different ideas of what is superior to what, so it may be impossible to find a fully non-sexist human being in that sense. Hmm, what if there was a hormonal/chemical difference between male and female werewolves so that the males changed when they got angry and the females changed when they had their periods? Just a thought. Of course, the truth is that men and women both get angry but only women have periods. Here's a matter I haven't heard mentioned (perhaps because I haven't read tons of vampire stuff): If a female vampire has periods, she would need more blood during her menses than normal. Add to that PMS and you potentially have a ravenous lack of control once a month. If she is undead, I would think she wouldn't have periods, but it would work for my live vampires.
Robin Layne w: "I fail to understand why the meanest, baddest vampire in history would love the humans around him--except the taste of their blood. Now if he somehow fell in love with one woman among them who was ..."He invied them,& wanted to be like them for the woman he loved. Maybe, he should be a vampire/were. Would that even work? I'm not an author, so don't know. May be I should not have answered?
A vampire werewolf sounds like and interesting combination. And envy of humans is certainly an interesting subject, too. A vampire might be meaner toward humans BECAUSE he envies them. But envying other creatures is not the same thing as loving them. Anne Rice's LeStat envied humans so much he found a way to trade places with one in Tale of the Body Thief. I haven't read that one, but I've heard about it. And you don't have to be an author to have good ideas. Maybe you will be an author someday, if you want to. I haven't had a book published yet, so I'm not an author in that sense myself. I just wanted to know what you meant. Thanks for clarifying it. And even if you never become an author, writers are interested in knowing what readers like to read.
The only way that could happen, is for a vampire, to bite awere, when in human self.Its death for a vampire to bitten by a were, right? But if a were was in human form,& sleeping, then a vampire could bite, before the were woke up. That would work to make a vampire/were right? Boy, I wouldn't want to be around when it did wake.But like I said I'm not an author. wish I was, though.Oh, just rambling in my head. Let me know if you could make a story from that, OK.
Sandrine wrote: "Yes! The theme of isolation is prominent in my story; existentialism and dissonance as well. How does one cope when one is forced to become a creature that all fear and despise? And I needed my ..."
Rita wrote: "The only way that could happen, is for a vampire, to bite awere, when in human self.Its death for a vampire to bitten by a were, right? But if a were was in human form,& sleeping, then a vampire co..."Whether a vampire would die if bitten by a werewolf is up to the author. There is a half vampire/half werewolf in the movie "Underworld: Evolution," I believe. I confess I haven't seen that one, but I think he has a vampire mother and a werewolf father. That is one way to create a were/vamp, certainly not the only possibility. The fun of it is that when we write about imaginary creatures, we can make up a lot of our own rules--as long as the reader will accept them. (I never would have thought vampires that sparkled in sunlight would go over for readers, but many seem to like that kind of thing. If that can work, what wouldn't?)
Well, like I said, I'm not an author, so I really don't know, how to make it all work. But thinking, he or she wants a cure,so could be with the love in his or her life. Still no idea, how that could be put on paper. My artistic talents go in another, direction.It would be, really great, to be able to wright. I did make a heck of a spook house, when our kids were real. I also created a supper, display window, when working.Won, 3rd, place out of over 100 stores. That was a big surprise to me, but felt really great.
Robin Layne wrote: "Rita wrote: "The only way that could happen, is for a vampire, to bite awere, when in human self.Its death for a vampire to bitten by a were, right? But if a were was in human form,& sleeping, then..."Vegetarian vampires who sparkle. The question is why would that even be appealing. I read the first two books; pushed my way through the 3rd, already feeling more and more upset with the way the books and charactgers played. There is no way I would ever read the 4th book.
It is hard to know what readers will want/accept. I ask the question often of people who are into this sort of thing: What makes a good vampire story? So far not one of them has said "Oh, please, more of the sparkle/vegetarian variety!"
I look for forums such as this to gain feedback from writers/readers. But there seems little interest in what I am actually looking for.
As a writer, I only write books that I would want to read myself. Therefore, none of my vampires sparkle. I admit, it was an interesting take on vampires, but not one I would want to read. I have see all the movies, mostly because I have little sisters who are Twilight fans, but they are also fans of my stuff, which is about as far away from sparkling vegetarian vampires as you can get. Some readers have broad tastes and can enjoy many different styles of writing. But I think even some Twilight fans are getting sick of the sparkling lovable vampire who wants to take you to prom.
Hm, if they are sick of it, why are they fans of it? Is it the purple prose and incorrect wording of the writing, the stylish covers of the hardcover books, or the stars whom they think look so hot in that weird make-up in the movies? Sorry, I'm venting. Since I started a YA vampire novel years before Twilight came out and I'm still struggling to finish it, and since writer's workshop teachers told me "vampires are dead, the market is flooded with them, never write about them," I'm jealous of Stephanie Meyers' success with the market I want to reach. I wouldn't be jealous if I felt she deserved it. Or would I be? I remember crying when I read Fahrenheit 451 and read about how Bradbury published his fiction--cried because I wasn't him, couldn't write with his skill, and didn't have the ease of completing and publishing much of my work. I have to be reminded not to compare myself to other writers. People like you guys encourage me! Thanks for being here.
Vampires are not dead. No genre is ever truly dead. All one has to do is write something new. It's the "same old story" that is dead. Myers wrote something new and was successful, and now that the vampire romance thing has been done to death, the market is fresh for new things. My book isn't exactly a best seller, but the reviews are all good and people seem to like it. I just wrote something that hasn't been done before. As for why some "fans" are getting sick of certain things, it's the same thing that can cause a once hit TV show to get cancelled. It gets old after a while. The monster vampire, who is evil and actually wants to eat you, is making a comeback, but soon people will tire of that again and writers will once again have to come up with something new.
Between 1998 and 2000 I got absorbed in writing a novel (my first), an epic fantasy with vampires, wizards, gods, etc., even magical rings and swords. Unfortunately, that was when Buffy (very cool) exploded the vampire market (so much romantic absurdity), Lord of the Rings became a major phenomenon (very deserved) and everyone was reading Harry Potter (why?). Suddenly so many of the themes in my novel looked very derivative... I lost the will to publish and even write at that point.I love vampire stories, but not the funny/cute/YA-romantic ones.
responding to messages 102-106 Ardy, Robin, Francis: Your comments totally resonate with me. I began writing my vampire novel a very long time ago, when Anne Rice was well established. She totally intimidated me and I felt she had set the bar very high (just because of the first book mind you) and I could never capture what she had written. The muse left me and I had to shelve the story. My love of the vampire genre continued, but I craved what Rice had shown me (1st book only!; I wanted more, but no one delivered. The Meyers books came along and I read them and they disappointed me finally, then angered me. It is a little nauseating that they became so popular. I feel as if she set the genre back; but that was it for me. I began writing my novel again two years ago and I have so much passion for it. I am writing the kind of book I want would want to read. I would like the book to be successful; hell I would just like it to be published. I don't want Meyer's success. I want my own. I want to contribute something meaningful to vampire literature; a tribute to the genre. I often think why, oh why did she have to pick (on) vampires? It cracks me up when I've read she wanted to call the book "Forks" and that two of her vampires were originally called Carol and Ron. Not that the final outcome was much better. I would hate it if an attribute that one of my (beloved) characters had was mocked and ridiculed by people who never even read the book. People might say she could care less--laughing all the way to the bank. But that isn't what this writing passion is all about. Robin, you mentioned Ray Bradbury--one of my favorites of his is Dandelion Wine. Who could ever top that? One of my friends wrote to him and he answered her, with much encouragement. I sometimes see all of us in a future world where no one owns an actual book anymore and bookstores are history, so some of us "become" our beloved books like in F451. It seems to be all about timing,this genre thing. I too have worried that the vampire market is saturated. When people ask what I write about, I cringe and don't want to say "just what the world needs--another vampire novel." I agree with Ardy; vampires are not dead (they can't die!)as a genre. They have endured in popularity for far too long. Recently we've seen Let the Right One In (ONE vampire!) and The Historian. They found an audience.Keep writing my friends; don't give up; listen to your voice and your passion for the vampire and they will lead you where you need to be. Don't give up the will to write or publish; don't compare yourselves or be intimidated (as I was). Always there will be greater and lesser than yourselves. I get upset that people I know can churn out a finished book in 6 months, and I've been slogging away for two years; I am heartened to think of JKR writing Harry's adventures while she was an impoverished single mom going to cafes to write because she had the passion to do it.
Mmm, yes. Let the Right One In and The Historian. Great books.Masello's Blood and Ice is quite good, except the ending (from a scientific perspective).
I love writing in cafes. My ideal holiday is walking round Paris or Utrecht or wherever spending an hour in this cafe, an hour in that park, just reading/writing. (Unfortunately this isn't my wife's idea of an ideal holiday...)
My novel languished on a shelf for ten years before I decided to publish it through KDP. No one's actually bought it (apart from a few friends and family) but I'm in the process of revamping the cover and description, etc., and I plan to do a promotion, so who knows.
It's a nice feeling though to know that people can read it if they choose, and that it's not just gathering dust.
And after ten years, I've been bitten by the bug again, and am nearly finished a new novel - vampires again, but completely different. I agree with you: 'I am writing the kind of book I want would want to read.'
Writing a book in six months? It's certainly possible, but the question is whether it's any good. There's a thread somewhere where people are saying how many (thousands of) words they write each day - which I find a little bizarre. Some authors (established as well as self-publishing) are very good at churning out books which are then very frustrating to read because the structure and even the grammar are all over the place.
I can create a story in very little time, and even bust out a draft in just a few months, but it's rare for me. Akeldama took me about four months to write, but the bug had bitten me and the words just seemed to flow. Of course it took another six months or so to polish it and fix the inconsistencies and problems that arise when one writes a four hundred page novel in such a short time. The sequel is taking a lot longer, but that's a good thing. I want to advance the story and bring it to the eventual conclusion I have in mind and that will take a lot more thought than the first book required. Writing so many words a day is more of an excersize in practice and keeping your writing fresh. I find it easier to write a thousand words after I've written a thousand words. I've written lots of stuff that will never be published, but I consider these to be like all the running one does to prepare themselves for a marathon.
My other published novel took almost three years to get right, and I wrote the whole thing by hand.
"I often think why, oh why did she have to pick (on) vampires?" How perfectly put, Sandrine! And the reminder that there will always be writers better and worse than you is very helpful to remember.As for length of time, I started my novel in about 2000, and it still isn't done. Some people scold me for not working on it every day (but the back burner imagination work may be going on every day even if I don't type in actual parts of chapters). Others scold me for writing about vampires. The largest number of the people in my life would have me cloud my day with other things entirely. That's why I'm happy for the writer's groups I've found and for this site. I need to not spend too much time even here; got to work on my book itself, and on all my other responsibilities.
Robin Layne wrote: ""I often think why, oh why did she have to pick (on) vampires?" How perfectly put, Sandrine! And the reminder that there will always be writers better and worse than you is very helpful to remember..."don't worry about "working" on it every day. Some days you just can't write, and if you force yourself to sit down and type on those days, even if you know exactly where you want the story to go, your work will suffer. Five good pages a week is better than ten pages of crap a day. And there will always be people who will "scold" you for your writing topics. Just write what you want to write. There are readers for just about everything. I wouldn't scold someone for writing a romance novel or historical fiction, which I rarely read. If that's what they want to write, more power to them. A story written by an author who loves their subject is a good story!
I thought all vampire books were historical romances.
So many quotable comments from everyone! I do meet authors who seem obsessed with daily word count; but then, they are the ones who get the job done, and are published. I write by hand, using pencil, and I edit and polish each chapter as I go along. I write every day, even if it is one paragraph and I'm falling apart. I feel "writing deprived" if I don't. And my TBR pile of books is daunting; I very much want to read, and an author friend admonished me "but you HAVE to read your genre--it helps you to improve and become a better writer. Yes, but there is that need to "protect your own voice." My book fairly writes itself; my characters guide me; I just take dictation.I am already dreading the publishing process, so different now from what it was when I first had my book idea. My author friend tirelessly finds ways to promote her work via social media--I would not even know where to start. But I don't feel like I have a prayer going the traditional publishing route either. People now want--demand--the 99 cent, or free!--novel. It used to be you put all your genius and effort into creating a decent book. Now it's also up to the author to self: design the cover, publish, and promote the book. Working with artists, whom you pay, to design a cover you like, only to have to change the cover because it doesn't sell. It seems you finally finish the book, then your real headaches begin. And Francis what is KDP? I probably should know these things.
I have been berating myself for taking so long (since Feb) to work on the current chapter--now standing at 120 pages. My author friend said oh no! you can't have a chapter that long! Yes, I know. So now it has been, with a little clever segue and transitioning paragraphs, divided into 5 chapters. Now I feel better!
KDP is Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing, which is basically chucking your book out there to sink or swim in the swamp... :-)
Ardy, I love what you said about five good pages verses ten pages of crap. I've never heard anything like that said, even though it sounds so obvious! Instead, I hear writers say you must write crappy first drafts! As in photography class, they said if you want to take good pictures you had to learn to waste film.What isn't discussed by these push-yourself-every-day authors is the amount of daydreaming, research, planning, organizing, and self-editing/rewriting that is also essential to creating a good book. I was once involved in something similar to NanoWriMo. NanoWriMo (which I hope I capitalized and spelled correctly) excepts you to write a draft of an entire novel in a month, and the requirements are that you write a certain number of pages a day of a book you have never written any part of yet. (Impossible to me, because if I know enough about a book to write it, I must have at least written some of it down when the ideas came to me.) Worst of all, you are supposed to do it in November, when most normal people are busy in a mad combination of working and celebrating. The writers' website I was involved with held their own contest in February and didn't require that you had never written a word of the book you were working on. I won the contest by posting every day the number of words I wrote on the sequel to my first vampire novel. But I don't know that I accomplished much. I have a lot of padding about my characters doing things but still not much on the real conflict, which I hadn't figured out much about yet. Just goes to show there is so much more to writing than putting down one word after another. I came up with a few helpful ideas, but I expect the bulk of what I wrote that month will never be part of the novel.
Francis wrote: "I thought all vampire books were historical romances."Nah, just hysterical ones.
Vampire Books Fans, Fangs and Writers
Books mentioned in this topic
On the Soul of a Vampire (other topics)Pro Luce Habere Volumes 1 and 2 Combined Edition (other topics)
Kings of Infinite Space: The Quest for Alina Meridon (other topics)
Reave the Just and Other Tales (other topics)
The Last Werewolf (other topics)
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I don't have the book yet,but it is on my to read list.I just need to read a few more of the book's I already have, but will buy it in very near future. Look's interesting.