TWILIGHT HATERS discussion
Anti Twilight Rants/Stuff
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5 reasons why you like or dont like it
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2. Breaking dawn made me puke
3. The story moved a bit too fast for my taste
4. I like good books. Twilight was not one of them
5. They sucked.
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2. The plot is flimsy with no real rising/falling action, or even a climax for that matter (ballet studio scene was hardly a climax)
3. Characters are essentially "perfect" with a few minor discrepancies that are meant to be passed off as flaws (i.e. clumsiness)
4. The writing itself is unimaginative and repetative -- basically a published fanfiction
5. For a "love story" the characters never even fell in love. All of a sudden they're crazy about each other. Edward likes her because he cant hear her thoughts (seems kind of anti-feminist to me but i wont get started on that now) and Bella likes Edward because he's beautiful. Its a shallow, unrealistic relationship
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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1. It's telling tween/teen girls that all men are perfect, incredibly hot, and sensitive and will do anything for you. This is not the case because a)no one is perfect, b) I'll talk about this in number two and c) Generally, men aren't that sensitive. And when they are, they're gay.2. The relationship is derived entirely on physical attributes. Edward's looks, and Bella's smell. A relationship like that is not going to work out in real life, and so, for these tweeny/teen-y girls, they're going to go for looks, but looks fade, and they'll be unhappy.
3. The relationship is NOT love. It is lust. And Meyer is telling girls that giving into lust is 'okay'.
4. The plot really, really stinks. I mean, think back to the first book - what's the plot? Their romance? Alright, I'll give you that...but...*cringes* she brings in an actual plot 350 pages into the book. The book that's about 450 pages long. The second book? Edward leaves, Bella mopes, then saves Edward. The third book? Bella's horny. And then the vampires and werewolves fight. And Victoria dies (albeit, that was probably my favorite part. Meyer KILLED someone, and did it with a little bit of...talent. I wish it were a tad longer though). The fourth book just makes me sick, so I'm not even going to talk about it.
5. The characters. Oh, the characters. Mary and Gary sues.
Rosie:I take offense to the statement that only gay men are sensitive. First of all, you're going off of TWO stereotypes at the same time. Second, any insensitivity on their part is a matter of socialization. Just look at toys that are marketed to boys from an early age: big guys with lots of muscles, little heads, and often with guns. It's just driving in the idea that men need to be hard, tough, and don't have emotional depth. Have you ever taken a guy aside and told him, "You know, you don't need to act like that? It's okay. Really. No one will think less of you." It's unlikely.
Also hon, you know there are tons of gay men out there that aren't dripping femininity. ;)And I'd think it's pretty safe to say that they're just as "insensitive" as you perceive straight men to be. Usually you notice only the stereotypical gay BECAUSE they play along with that stereotype.
I never said only gay men are sensitive. I said that only gay men are that sensitive. As in, as sensitive as Edward. Also, I never said that ALL gay men are sensitive - I said, that if a man is THAT sensitive, he must be gay. So, I'm taking offense in the fact that you're assuming a bunch of things that I never freaking said, and you're acting holier-then-thou about it. So, how's that?Oh, sorry if I didn't clear up your 'first of all'. I didn't think it made any sense, so I couldn't say anything about it.
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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message 10:
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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1) Stephenie Meyer's blatant patronizing behaviour towards her fans/her behaviour in general. That is actually my biggest problem here. When fans expressed their discontent with the unrealistic happily-ever-after in BD, she condescending told them, "They'll grow to love it." You DO NOT attempt to belittle a person's opinion like that. It's simply demeaning, and it pisses ME - an anti-fan - off. Also her entire entry on why she is putting Midnight Sun off indefinitely. If anyone wants to read it:
http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/midnigh...
Posting the rough draft of MS violated her human rights? How so exactly? Such pretention! How dare she! Authors and directors have to deal with this kind of shit all the time. It simply comes with the territory, so suck it up and stop complaining!
2)You Fail Biology Forever, Stephenie Meyer. None of it makes any sense. She tried to make her vampires less supernatural, but you only do that if you're confident that the alternative route of science will have some semblance of consistency. As such, it came back to bite her in the ass.
Anyone who has only read the books might be a little in the dark as to how badly she actually violates this principle. SM has answered some specifics about the workings of vampires (Renesmee started a whole flood of that), which if you know anything about novel writing, is a bad sign. When you write something, most of it should be explained right in the book. People will tolerate a few out-of-book disclaimers (a la J.K. Rowling and Dumbledore's sexuality), but SM goes way above the allowable. You can find them all on her website. Perhaps I'll compile a list later.
3)Aweful messages. From anti-feminism in disguise to advertising dangerous codependence and unhealthy relationships. Here's a subdivision of the issues here:
~Bella is NOT an independant, smart woman in control of her life. She meets Edward and all of a sudden, her former life means nothing to her.
~This glorification of a teenage obsessive infatuation, distorting it to the position of "True Love". It's lust, not love. And I'm completely okay with a relationship STARTING OUT that way. They often do. You think someone's cute, you go out with them, whatever. But your relationship needs to eventually evolve from that, to an emotional attachment. You need to have things in common, do things together, or otherwise the relationship doesn't last.
~Anti-humanism. While I detest human-centric ideas, I hate this just as much. It seems that no one is worthy of Bella's attention if they're not human. Angela? Pfff. Mike? Hah. Charlie? As if. That's why I liked the movie. It actually portrayed the human characters as people unto themselves. (I never realized how awesome Eric was until I saw the movie.)
~BABIES.Bella, Leah, Rosalie. Need I say more?
4) Writer On Board. The thing about stories is that it simulates reality. Not necessarily OUR reality, but A reality. You should be emmersed in it. The world inside the book should feel 3-dimensional, as if it could exist on its own. As such, it has some semblance of realistic continuity. Even in fantasy, where all sorts of crazy things happen, you can still believe it because it adheres to that universe's concept of reality. I'm sure a lot of you have heard of it already. This is called Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Break your in-universe logic, and you set yourself up to get burned.
In Twilight (especially BD), you can see the scenes where the hand of God (a.k.a. Stephenie Meyer) reaches in to change and direct plot as she sees fit. It no longer flows smoothly. If it ever did, that is. Despite however the characters would've really acted, they don't, because then Meyer wouldn't have her perfect fairy tale. (On a side note, interestingly fairy tales were MUCH darker. And I'm not just talking about the Brothers Grimm. Anyone ever heard of Baba Yaga?)
5)Lack of plot. I'll add bad prose to that, too. Nothing happens. I agree with Gemma here, the bit in the ballet studio does NOT count as a climax, seeing as the action really doesn't start UNTIL then. Whoever heard of a book with the climax at the beginning? Actually, in HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Earth is destroyed in the second chapter (sorry if I spoiled that for anyone. lol) but that was intentional. Twilight? Please. I realize putting that little blurb on the back was all the publisher, but it doesn't help that the first several hundred pages is devoted to Bella uncovering a secret that's explicitly told on the back cover.
Even so, we might have been able to enjoy this, if it were well written. It is possible to enjoy and to some extent be somewhat surprised by a revelation, via the character's feelings, even if some foreshadowing earlier gave it away. In Tithe, I figured out that Kaye was really a faerie changeling maybe the second chapter, but Holly Black wrote out the scene where she changes back in such a way that you still manage to be shocked through Kaye's experiences. But Meyer, once again, FAILS. I realize she has some Ph.D. or something in writing, and perhaps people who THINK they can write because they learned how are worse than inexperienced ones. She knows how to write prose so as to make it beautiful, but not so as to make it interesting.
Sorry for the long post. Geez. I had a lot to say.
I never said only gay men are sensitive. I said that only gay men are that sensitive. As in, as sensitive as Edward. Also, I never said that ALL gay men are sensitive - I said, that if a man is THAT sensitive, he must be gay. So, I'm taking offense in the fact that you're assuming a bunch of things that I never freaking said, and you're acting holier-then-thou about it. So, how's that? "Men usually aren't sensitive. If they are, then they're gay." Pretty straightforward.
I wasn't taking a hostile tone, just so you know. Holier-than-thou? Not really. I'm sorry if you interpreted my words that way, because they weren't meant to be. It's just I'm so tired of people using that line, that I felt I had to say something. Call it a stored-up rant. It wasn't completely directed at you, so sorry about that.
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Your five reasons basically summed up everything I wish I had the intention span to write.
The Messages is something I completely forgot to mention in my reasons--for a book targeted at young teen/tweens, it advertises completely twisted morals. Case and point: There are no consequences for your actions.
Its ok to get pregnant at 18. You may die giving birth but your vampire hubby will be there to save you so that you can break a few more headboards later in the story. As for that baby? Don't worry about it! It'll grow up in a matter of weeks so you and the vampire beau can get back to your love shack with an abundant of headboards that need to be broken in.
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Phantompickles:
I really don't think Rosie meant to imply anything prejudiced or narrowminded. I'm pretty sure she just meant to point out the flaws of Edwards "perfect" character.
I agree that I have some pent up frustration about the whole prop 8 thing but I don't think Rose had any intention of offending anyone or starting a gay rights debate.
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Wow, that was really weird. o_0 Thanks for the invite back in, Rosie. Again, sorry.
1. The fact that Meyer constantly rams down our throat what a strong female protagonist Bella is while making her cook, clean and accept abuse from the men in her life.2. How the book stresses that, even if your boyfriend speaks of killing you and even if he is constantly emotionally abusive and treats you as if you're retarded, you should stick by his side if it's ~*~true love~*~. Also, get pregnant! Even if it kills you! What an amazing message for teen girls.
3. Meyer completely fails to make her characters likeable and therefore relatable.
4. Meyer's writing style is consistent with that of a twelve-year-old girl.
5. The creepy, subtle (ha!), paedophilia.
Just Wondering,
Do you think Harry Potter sends bad messages? Some people say "Oh, it's bad because he gets himself in trouble all the time, and never gets punished"
Just wondering what you guys thought.
Reasons why I hate Twilight:
1. Bella. She's whiny and inconsiderate, she's a damsel in destress, and she's EXTREME clumsy (I fall a lot, but come on, she's just way to extreme). She's also stupid. But oh, her looks are perfect, she's absolutely beautiful, and that's why Edward lovers her. Oh, and she smells absolutely delightful.
I told my friend that I didn't like Twilight and one reason was because of Bella
me: "Edward only likes her because she smells good."
her: "Well, she's also supposed to be really pretty..."
NOTHING about her personality.
Also, at her old school, she's this weird kid. In Forks, she's miss popular, miss i-get-asked-out-by-everyone-cuz-i'm-beautiful.
2. Edward. He's perfect in every way. Except that he can't stop himself from being in love. That's NOT a flaw. He's so perfect, he's boring. I don't like a book without flaws, why should I like a character without flaws?
3. The plot. I know other people have said this, but it's SO true. There is no plot. Their everyday and nightly love being described isn't interesting! The only "climax" scene is at the END, and Bella gets knocked out at the beginning of it! And they don't recount anything!
4. Stephenie Meyer. She's living through the book. She wishes she could ind someone perfect, and making teen girls think that Edward is real and someday he'll like them. She also describes the kissing scenes too much, and the "Oh edward" "oh Bella" scenes too much, and not enough conflict! This goes along with #3.
5. The Twi-hards. I used to like Twilight. Then I read breaking dawn and thought it was the 2nd worst book ever. But then people's responses when I said I only liked it "HOW COULD YOU??!!! HOW COULD YOU HATE TWILIGHT???!!! I HATE YOU, TRAITOR!!!" I mean, what the hell? All this over a book that's not very good? COme on, get a life, Twilight lovers!
Do you think Harry Potter sends bad messages? Some people say "Oh, it's bad because he gets himself in trouble all the time, and never gets punished"
Just wondering what you guys thought.
Reasons why I hate Twilight:
1. Bella. She's whiny and inconsiderate, she's a damsel in destress, and she's EXTREME clumsy (I fall a lot, but come on, she's just way to extreme). She's also stupid. But oh, her looks are perfect, she's absolutely beautiful, and that's why Edward lovers her. Oh, and she smells absolutely delightful.
I told my friend that I didn't like Twilight and one reason was because of Bella
me: "Edward only likes her because she smells good."
her: "Well, she's also supposed to be really pretty..."
NOTHING about her personality.
Also, at her old school, she's this weird kid. In Forks, she's miss popular, miss i-get-asked-out-by-everyone-cuz-i'm-beautiful.
2. Edward. He's perfect in every way. Except that he can't stop himself from being in love. That's NOT a flaw. He's so perfect, he's boring. I don't like a book without flaws, why should I like a character without flaws?
3. The plot. I know other people have said this, but it's SO true. There is no plot. Their everyday and nightly love being described isn't interesting! The only "climax" scene is at the END, and Bella gets knocked out at the beginning of it! And they don't recount anything!
4. Stephenie Meyer. She's living through the book. She wishes she could ind someone perfect, and making teen girls think that Edward is real and someday he'll like them. She also describes the kissing scenes too much, and the "Oh edward" "oh Bella" scenes too much, and not enough conflict! This goes along with #3.
5. The Twi-hards. I used to like Twilight. Then I read breaking dawn and thought it was the 2nd worst book ever. But then people's responses when I said I only liked it "HOW COULD YOU??!!! HOW COULD YOU HATE TWILIGHT???!!! I HATE YOU, TRAITOR!!!" I mean, what the hell? All this over a book that's not very good? COme on, get a life, Twilight lovers!
i know! twi- hards have 2 posts about us that are look 100 comments all going "twilight haters are retatrds" "they've never read the book! they'd like if they read it!" "ew they wont wake up 2marow"
and online the spell everything wrong. I don't mean abbreviations, but like one girl said "HOW CULD U SAY SUCH A THING ABOUT IT!?!?!"
Come on, could has an o in it! And the name of the topic (that SHE started) was wat if...
I mean, it doesn't take that much more to put an h!
Come on, could has an o in it! And the name of the topic (that SHE started) was wat if...
I mean, it doesn't take that much more to put an h!
message 28:
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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At first i thought you said "if you can c red then ru a twi-hard" I freaked out because my couch is red...
message 30:
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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ha, my mom was watching e.t. (entertainment tonight) and they said "TWIHARDS are excited..."
I LOVED that they used the word twihards.
I LOVED that they used the word twihards.
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message 33:
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☼☼Khloe☼☼~*~Thirteenth Step~*~, The one who just looks good in tights
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lol. very delosional. i felt so bad for my twi-hard friend cause all of her books are signed (except BD) and she lost new moon and she went into look this huge fit in the library i wanted to be like "ITS WHERE IT SHOULD BE- WHERE NO1 CAN SEE IT" but no i was like "dude be quiet were in the library"
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Jamine Isabel E. Uy, The creative makes-awesome-stuff-for-us one
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1) Twilight sucks
2) New Moon sucks
3) Eclipse sucks
4) Breaking Dawn sucked even more
5) They all suck.
I'll put in the longer points next time. I have so many things to catch up on the group. Better start reading!
message 38:
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Jamine Isabel E. Uy, The creative makes-awesome-stuff-for-us one
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message 40:
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Jamine Isabel E. Uy, The creative makes-awesome-stuff-for-us one
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Stephenie Meyers is not a good author... sorry... I think it just needs to be added there.
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Pretty much same with me. Bella is a masochistic crazy person who cant seem to pry herself away from a coven of ravenous vampires!!
1. Doesn't make sense2. The book just sucks
3. Too perfect
4. Edward sparkles
and 5. Nothing interesting happens.
If I were to go on to 10 my next 5 reasons would be, It's gay. lol
Jake.... "It's gay" is not a reason. That doesn't even mean anything. Except maybe that you're lazy in choosing your adjectives.
Ugh, I hate it when people use gay as an insult.
It's not even an insult most of the time. It's a colloquial saying, based in discrimination, that has passed into normal speech. A lot of the time, people who use it don't quite realize the implication. I used to say it occasionally a few years ago... Until someone threatened to punch me in the face if I said it again.
Realize that "gay" was not even part of my five. I didn't include that in the first five cuz I know its not a good reason. So get off my back.
Don't worry about it Jake. They're always on everyone's backs.
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TWILIGHT HATERS
Books mentioned in this topic
New Moon (other topics)Breaking Dawn (other topics)
heres mine:
I didnt like it for 5 reasons:
1st. i dont like fantasy- and the book was not my type.
2nd. She uses muttered, murrmed, and whispered WAY to much
3rd. eedward is to perfect- charecters need flaws.
4th. edward's personality is a. BLANK or b. not described at all
5th. i cant read long books unless there good. and if a long book is good i can read it easily, but twilight just didn't make me want to keep reading. its just long and if you ask me- pretty much slow paced and boring
i read like 3/4+ of the first book- it was good from like 1/4- 1/2 of the way then the rest just i didnt like at all and stopped reading.