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Writer's Station > Is self-publishing on the decline?

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message 1: by Everly (new)

Everly Anders | 207 comments Mod
I have been hearing a lot of people talk about self-publishing being on the decline because sales for 2011 were down.
Here is the article I wrote: http://ellelapraim.com/is-self-publis...

What do you think?


message 2: by M Todd (new)

M Todd Gallowglas (mgallowglas) Nice article. I think that those of us who have a passion and dedication for our work will last as long as we also treat it like a business.

This big thing we have to keep reminding our selves is that it's a marathon, not a sprint.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

I think people with a passion for writing, will write even if they don't sell a book. I write for the pure enjoyment of it.
Self-publishing for me is (right now) the only outlet I have to share my books. If one person can read something I've written and enjoy it, I've set out to do what I started.

The article says: "The Naysayers keep speculating that e-book self-publishing is just a fad."

L. Frank Baum Published the Wizard of Oz from his own money and in fact self published the most successful children books of all time.

Self publishing might be a fad to most people, but having been a self-published writer for twelve years now, its an up hill battle. I've not gotten rich off of it and I'm okay with that. I will just keep telling my stories and hope someone likes them.


message 4: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Harding (tessharding) | 5 comments Interesting article Elle, and I agree with your conclusions.

I keep stats of my own sales and the absolute numbers kind of mirror the stats you show for indie sales. However, although in August last year I sold over 1500 books and only 400 in December (of one title), my ranking in my particular genre has remained fairly static, remaining more or less in the top 10.

This makes me think that overall sales of indie books have probably dropped because my genre is populated with a large proportion of indie writers. This seems to support the conclusions you draw.

However, if true, this can only be for the good. I completely concur with your idea that many indie authors thought eBooks were a licence to print money. The fact they are not means only the dedicated will remain. Hopefully this means the general quality of indie titles will rise and the stigma attached may diminish.


message 5: by Gerald (new)

Gerald Griffin (authorgeraldggriffin) | 306 comments M. Todd wrote: "Nice article. I think that those of us who have a passion and dedication for our work will last as long as we also treat it like a business.

This big thing we have to keep reminding our selves is ..."


I agree, M. If you regard it as a sprint, you'll sprint into oblivion.

If you'd like to read some of my other views --- especially my latest posting for women who love to read --- please visit my blog, http://geraldggriffin.blogspot. com .


message 6: by Patricia (new)

Patricia O'Sullivan | 57 comments Elle,

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think the publishing industry would like us to think self pub was a fad and that Amazon is not doing as well as we all thought.

The problem is, the big publishers have also treated publishing like a get rich quick scheme. They don't want to take chances and grow author brands. Agents talk about 'what sells' rather than what is so good it is worth promoting.

Like Hollywood, they just keep spinning out knock-offs of the same old crap trying to milk a trend - Vampires, Zombies, Tudors, Jane Austin, and tween-aged wizards and then they tell us that this is what readers want.

If self pubs and indies tried to cash in on the quick sell, they took their cue from the industry.


message 7: by Everly (new)

Everly Anders | 207 comments Mod
Patricia wrote: "Elle,

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think the publishing industry would like us to think self pub was a fad and that Amazon is not doing as well as we all thought.

The problem i..."

Good Point Patricia!


message 8: by Gerald (new)

Gerald Griffin (authorgeraldggriffin) | 306 comments Patricia wrote: "Elle,

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think the publishing industry would like us to think self pub was a fad and that Amazon is not doing as well as we all thought.

The problem i..."


Amen,Patricia.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

I definitely do not think that self-publishing is a fad. However, since going through it already I know it isn't for me. It is a lot of work so I figure now I can put that hard work that goes into self-pub to trying to get published.

Self-pub is also really expensive so again, it is cheaper for me to work harder on getting published. This could be why the rate is going down.


message 10: by M.A. (new)

M.A. Demers | 36 comments I guess it depends on how you define "in decline." If it's a matter of numbers, then perhaps yes. But if it's about quality, then perhaps no, especially if, as others have said, the I-thought-this-was-a-quick-way-to-get-rich writers start leaving in droves and only the truly committed remain.

There is also the issue of all the scam and porn books that were making their way onto Kindle; I think that's slowly starting to decline as well, which can only be a good thing. (And by porn I do not mean erotic fiction; I mean the collections of pirated images stolen off porn sites and compiled into "books.")

Michelle
Baby Jane
The Global Indie Author: How anyone can self-publish in the U.S. and worldwide markets


message 11: by Susan (new)

Susan Spence | 22 comments I also hope that any decline in indie sales is because everybody who wanted to write a book has done so, and now the dedicated writers will prevail.


message 12: by Leah (new)

Leah Spiegel | 1 comments I liked the article, and I don't think self-publishing is a fad and I thank god. It has been a wonderful outlet for my books. I've never heard of this "get rich quick" scheme. Someone must have forgot to tell me that every time, I actually lost money with each book launch party or book event I've had, but my passion is writing and self publishing has made my dreams come true; it got my book into reader's hands.


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Leah wrote: "I liked the article, and I don't think self-publishing is a fad and I thank god. It has been a wonderful outlet for my books. I've never heard of this "get rich quick" scheme. Someone must have for..."

Agreed, I can't imagine anyone thinking that this a get rich quick scheme.


message 14: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Harding (tessharding) | 5 comments Janiera wrote: "Agreed, I can't imagine anyone thinking that this a get rich quick scheme"

I don't even think it's a get rich slow scheme, Janiera. Maybe a "get a few bucks for a night out now and again" scheme is a start, hmm?

Seriously, if any of us were in it to make a lot of money we'd probably be looking at some other method. We write because we love writing, and self-publish in the hope someone enjoys what we've created. That's it, in the main, for all of us, I believe. If we earn any money it's a little icing on the cake.


message 15: by Jenn (new)

Jenn Thorson (jennthorson) | 46 comments The same was said about blogging. Time has weeded out a lot of the "make money blogging" stuff that was going around.

Now we're left with many more folks who care about blogging and sharing with their readers, and not trying to scrape content for pennies.

I suspect self-publishing will shake out in a similar way.

Personally, I didn't get into writing to make money. I write for my own love of telling a tale, and sharing that tale with the folks who want to read it.

My niche-- humorous sci-fi-- is not terribly large, so self-publishing has been a great way to get my work to people who really enjoy the genre.

In a rough economy, when traditional publishers need to choose titles with the broadest audience in order to survive, my genre couldn't compete. Self-publishing helps me become more competitive, and it helps serve a group of readers who otherwise would have less choice.


message 16: by Everly (new)

Everly Anders | 207 comments Mod
Jenn wrote: "The same was said about blogging. Time has weeded out a lot of the "make money blogging" stuff that was going around.

Now we're left with many more folks who care about blogging and sharing with t..."

I love the idea of humorous Sci-fi. I am a sci-fi author and would never be able to make mine humorous, so I am glad to hear that someone else is. So fun. I marked your book as a to-read. I will give you a review after I read it. Since you do have quite a little niche going, why don't you make a group onGoodreads for your genre? There might be other authors like yourself out there, or people who like to read that kind of thing. Since I run this group, I know how much work it takes to run a group, and you may not have the time to devote, but if you do, you might want to think about it. If you decide to, feel free to email me, and I can give you some pointers on running a successful group.


message 17: by Jenn (last edited Jan 30, 2012 10:31AM) (new)

Jenn Thorson (jennthorson) | 46 comments Elle wrote: "Jenn wrote: "The same was said about blogging. Time has weeded out a lot of the "make money blogging" stuff that was going around.

Now we're left with many more folks who care about blogging and s..."

Thanks for the suggestion, Elle. It's a very good idea, though I do need to think about how much time I have available before starting something. I don't want to commit to it and then not be able to keep up with it, since that wouldn't be fair to the people who'd join.

I imagine you are a very busy lady, seeing the great collection of content under this section.

PS- Thank you very much for the interest in the book.


message 18: by Everly (new)

Everly Anders | 207 comments Mod
Jenn wrote: "Elle wrote: "Jenn wrote: "The same was said about blogging. Time has weeded out a lot of the "make money blogging" stuff that was going around.

Now we're left with many more folks who care about b..."


Yes, you do need to think about your time. I am a fulltime writer and I have a blog, this group and a Facebook page with over 3,000 followers that I post on everyday. Plus, I occasionally spend time with my husband and my dog. :) You definitely need to look at what your priorities are and see what works for you.

I was very impressed with your title and your cover art. Those are two things that can go very wrong.


message 19: by Jenn (new)

Jenn Thorson (jennthorson) | 46 comments Elle wrote: "Jenn wrote: "Elle wrote: "Jenn wrote: "The same was said about blogging. Time has weeded out a lot of the "make money blogging" stuff that was going around.

Now we're left with many more folks who..."


Oh, thank you, Elle. I'm fortunate enough to have an artist friend who not only is talented with cover art, but understands my sense of humor.

We're already batting around ideas for the sequel's cover.


message 20: by Susan (new)

Susan Spence | 22 comments There are still get rich schemes out there. I recently saw an ad for writing and publishing an ebook in 24 hours.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

i'd say it's on the rise, not decline.


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

Richard wrote: "i'd say it's on the rise, not decline."

Ditto.


message 23: by Susan (new)

Susan Janiera wrote: "I definitely do not think that self-publishing is a fad. However, since going through it already I know it isn't for me. It is a lot of work so I figure now I can put that hard work that goes into ..."

Are you talking about the promotion side of it? Cuz that kills me also. I LOVE self-pub - it's easy to get it into e-book form and GO!


message 24: by Susan (new)

Susan Spence | 22 comments As someone who dislikes hierarchies of any kind, I love self-publishing because anyone can fit right in instead of having to travel the up hill road to established author status.


message 25: by Patricia (new)

Patricia O'Sullivan | 57 comments Jonathan wrote: "Self-publishing strikes me as democratization of writing that is probably worrisome to largely self-appointed cultural gatekeepers. It should be. The process of getting what readers want to read di..."

Excellent point, Jonathan. Self-pub is the youtube of writing. Yes, there is a lot of trash out there, but more and more there are well-crafted and professionally edited works. It means the readers get to go through the slush pile rather than having someone else do it for us. Some people don't want to do that kind of work so the publishing industry will not entirely go away.


message 26: by Robert (new)

Robert Gray | 2 comments I believe self-pubbing is a great way for authors to get discovered. Many can and have made a fair amount of coin, too. As a self-pubbed author myself, I do have one major concern, though. No matter how I market my books or what glowing reviews I receive, in the end, the only thing that seems to matter is where my books are positioned on Amazon's website. That's a bit scary to me, because I feel like Amazon is dictating how my books get sold and not me. While I don't subscribe to anything close to a decline or a "bubble" in the industry, I do sometimes worry that I'm nothing more than a temp worker for Jeff Bezos.


message 27: by Susan (new)

Susan Spence | 22 comments Robert, I feel the same way about Amazon. I've heard about authors who have published numerous books under one traditional publishing house are having to shop new novels though, so I think most of us are temps at this point.


message 28: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth Baxter (smallblondehippy) | 50 comments Oh no, I hope not because I've just turned down a contract so that I can self-pub! To be honest, I think this kind of talk is just scare-mongering from the big publishers. So indie stats were down a bit. So what? Ereaders are only likely to rise in popularity and I know that a lot of readers (me included!) love the choice that ereaders bring. No longer are our reading choices dictated by the big 6. I think indie publishing is here to stay - and hopefully get better and better once the get-rich-quick kids are weeded out.


message 29: by Greg (new)

Greg Scowen (gregscowen) Don't worry, Elizabeth. I'm not. I think what Elle writes in her article is correct, as you also are hoping.

By the way, Elle. You might want to check your 'patients' in the last line of the article.


message 30: by Ron (new)

Ron Heimbecher (RonHeimbecher) | 42 comments I do think that some of the shiny parts will wear off as a large number of people realize that there are fewer writer who make a good living at it than there are players in the NFL.

But it will NOT die as every heart has new stories -- stories that are worth telling, stories that are begging to be shared, and stories that are demanding to be written.

BICHOK isn't a lifestyle -- it's a religion.


message 31: by Razmatus (new)

Razmatus | 9 comments I havent really made much of an effort to get published... what I did though was posting my stuff online so more ppl notice... and when talking to ppl, sending them links to my stuff

right now working to write more material for third book

once I had my first two "books" printed and bound in a way a thesis is bound, and I still have it, since the person I wanted to give it to I wasnt with anymore and stuff... but it was still nice to see the work printed and bound, made me a little bit more hopeful that one day I might hold a copy of my own book in my hands

i know i know... e-books are cool, but when I have kids at some point, what will I show them "hey look at this link!" ?
thats one way to put it why I would like to get published, so that I can hold the actual copy in my hands and look at it and think hey, you produced also something tangible, with tons of memories bound to it


message 32: by Keryl (new)

Keryl Raist (kerylraist) | 15 comments Well, I know I got into it hoping to make money. But, hoping to make money doing something I love. So far, the money isn't precisely rushing in, but the doing something I love bit is still holding strong.

Right now the market for more or less everything is depressed, so the idea that the indie book market is down shouldn't be surprising. Add in KDP Select where you can get the books free, and more and more libraries offering more traditional titles for free, and I'm thinking yes, we're going to see a contraction in the paid market.

To me, this looks like it's mirroring the housing market (without that catastrophic crash that takes down the rest of the financial industry) just like how everyone and his cousin was flipping houses in '03 and '04, that same group all wrote books in '09 and '10. They're out or going at this point, and we'll still be there.


message 33: by Ron (new)

Ron Heimbecher (RonHeimbecher) | 42 comments Razmatus wrote: "I havent really made much of an effort to get published... what I did though was posting my stuff online so more ppl notice... and when talking to ppl, sending them links to my stuff

right now w..."

I usually print my first "final" draft through Lulu so I can work on the revisions an polish in a "real" book.

Not sure whether I'll ever do print distributions for readers again, though... It's hard to make the Bonus Content scroll across paper and update automatically in real-time.

B^)


message 34: by Ännä (new)

Ännä (annawhite) | 4 comments I think maybe fewer people are throwing things out there, but I'm it sure that's a bad thing. I definitely don't think it can be seen as any kind if way to get rich quick. It seems to be about having the persistence to put out multiple books and build up the long tail.


message 35: by Jen (new)

Jen Talty (jen_talty) | 17 comments I think so many people thought they could be the next Bob Mayer, JA Konrath, John Locke and Amanda Hocking that we saw a huge surge books. Also, because many successful mid-list authors were doing it, self-publishing got a stamp of approval. What we are seeing now is the weeding out process. Sometimes sustainability trumps talent. The Writer's Grit. Those that have a plan, follow the business, focus on quality content and stick around through the ups and downs of sales--those will be the select few who succeed.


message 36: by Julie (last edited Apr 07, 2012 06:50PM) (new)

Julie Reece It is my belief that certain people are born with hardwired'bents'. Painters, scholars, athletes, writers, etc ... that are born with a deep desire to pursue what they love. Nothing will deter them. Then there are people, without that bent, who might be temporarily infatuated with the idea of being great at something, and move on to other interests once the shine wears off and reality sets in.

New generations will come along and dream the same dreams of folks that have come before. All that to say, I think self publishing will endure, even thrive.


message 37: by Jen (new)

Jen Talty (jen_talty) | 17 comments Julie wrote: "New generations will come along and dream the same dreams of folks that have come before. All that to say, I think self publishing will endure, even thrive. "

Two things have made that possible--technology and readers using the technology. Self-publishing is here to stay, but not everyone will be successful at it just not like everyone could be in the top 5% of traditional publishing.


message 38: by Julie (new)

Julie Reece Jen wrote: "Julie wrote: "New generations will come along and dream the same dreams of folks that have come before. All that to say, I think self publishing will endure, even thrive. "

Two things have made th..."


Well said. I couldn't agree more.


message 39: by Sherri (new)

Sherri Moorer (sherrithewriter) No. If anything, I believe it's on the rise with the increased popularity of ebooks and places like Smashwords making it easier (and free) to self publish.


message 40: by John (last edited Apr 08, 2012 07:35AM) (new)

John David (johndavidauthor) | 51 comments Not for me. Some of the best advice I EVER got as a writer was to simply:

Write More.

That inspired me to expand my catalogue--to reach into genres that were unfamiliar to me, like children's books for example.

Some of my work is very dark, so if you are looking at my book list, you'll be all, "Ok, Ok, um . . . WTF?"

LOL yes write about what you know. Write as much as you can, as often as you can. Write well. Don't make readers and reviewers be your editors--that's your job.

Then publish away. Don't be afraid. Cream rises. Your work will too.


message 41: by S. (new)

S. Wachtel (sericwachtel) | 9 comments To the contrary. In fact self publishing, especially eBooks, is growing at a geometric rate.


message 42: by Susan (new)

Susan Spence | 22 comments I have to believe that the better writers will have success, where mediocre ones will eventually move on to something else.


message 43: by Rob (new)

Rob Osterman (robosterman) | 168 comments That inspired me to expand my catalogue--to reach into genres that were unfamiliar to me, like children's books for example.

Some of my work is very dark, so if you are looking at my book list, you'll be all, "Ok, Ok, um . . . WTF?"


And that's part of the danger of self-publishing. A big part of the writing industry is based on Branding. If you buy a James Patterson novel, you mostly know what to expect; you know his genre and you know his style. If you picked a book with his name on it, and found yourself reading an epic sci fi written all in the style of correspondence letters you'd be stymied. And there's a good chance you'd feel betrayed.

You bought a book by a known author and expected a known thing, only to get a completely different product.

I think the biggest problem with Self Publishing and why it will only catch on for those who can afford to do it, is that we have to learn all the lessons that the publishing industry has developed and studied for the last 100 years. Many of their practices did not evolve simply because of convenience but out of necessity, specifically things that new and untested writers just don't know yet.

Over time I do think that the number of self published books will only increase. Createspace has become easier to use (and cheaper) by an order of magnitude in just 12 months. But I think that the bulk of those writers will be hobbyists. I think that for an up-and-coming writer, the Self Publishing route as a full time occupation, will decline. The learning curve is exceptionally steep and unforgiving.

At least for someone with my fiancial obligations...


message 44: by Tellulah (new)

Tellulah Darling (tellulahdarling) In my screenwriting life, I was always coming across people who said they had a great idea for a screenplay or would write one if they had time. The thing is, we all deal in words. And while most of us would never go up to a heart surgeon and tell them that we too were going to operate one of these days, all of us think we can write.

And the wonder and challenge of our current technological world is that anyone who has the drive can get a novel to an audience. That said, I do believe that talent, skill and dedication to craft will keep whittling out those that "had a good idea" vs those who crafted a story. Same way I saw it with the influx of people who started making short films when editing software became so available. Lots of people still do, but I think, in general, the quality has gone up. Amazing times...


message 45: by Rob (new)

Rob Osterman (robosterman) | 168 comments And the wonder and challenge of our current technological world is that anyone who has the drive can get a novel to an audience.

The question is "how big is that audience?"

If you really love film making you can do it and share it with friends, but it might not be enough of an audience to do what you want to do as a film maker.


message 46: by Tellulah (new)

Tellulah Darling (tellulahdarling) Rob wrote: "And the wonder and challenge of our current technological world is that anyone who has the drive can get a novel to an audience.

The question is "how big is that audience?"

If you really love f..."


But with a book, you don't need to raise a million dollars... :) You raise a very fair question about audience size though.


message 47: by Keryl (new)

Keryl Raist (kerylraist) | 15 comments How big is the audience?

How big does it have to be?

If you can find a niche with more than a thousand people willing to pay you a dollar for your book, you're probably going to break even or end up a bit ahead.

6 billion people on the planet. Say there are about a billion who you can reach by computer. Can you find at least enough of them for you to break even on your expenses?

If so, go for it!


message 48: by John (new)

John David (johndavidauthor) | 51 comments Keryl wrote: "How big is the audience?

How big does it have to be?

If you can find a niche with more than a thousand people willing to pay you a dollar for your book, you're probably going to break even or end..."


Meh. If I only wrote what I thought that I could "break even" on, LOL I would have never written any children's books. To my great surprise, they do well. I wrote them to exercise my creative mind as an author . . . that anyone actually buys them is a scrumptious icing on the cake.


message 49: by Keryl (new)

Keryl Raist (kerylraist) | 15 comments John wrote: "Keryl wrote: "How big is the audience?

How big does it have to be?

If you can find a niche with more than a thousand people willing to pay you a dollar for your book, you're probably going to bre..."


Good for you on stretching yourself. And I'm glad to hear they are doing well.

That was more a response to the above about how if you can't find enough of a market it might not be worth it. I wanted to make the point that the market doesn't have to be very big, and there are a ton of people out there.


message 50: by Rob (new)

Rob Osterman (robosterman) | 168 comments And that's a fair point. An audience can be small to feel like you reached an audience.

However, if you want to feed a family of 4 on just your writing income, then the size of the required audience is a touch bigger....


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