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Count of Monte Cristo Chap. 114 thru 117
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Jan 18, 2012 06:49PM
Discuss the final chapters, and your overall impression of the book.
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I did a 2-1/2 hour power read to finish the book. Wow!
I really enjoyed the book. Some of the scenes were so emotionally charged and intense. I really appreciated the moral struggle that the Count went through when he realized that his revenge had harmed the innocent, destroying those he loved along with those who had injured him.
My only quibble with the entire story was the way the Count dealt with Morrel. I think it was excessively cruel and egotistical to force the man to give up entirely and irrevocably on life, then drug him, before restoring Valentine to him.
I really enjoyed the book. Some of the scenes were so emotionally charged and intense. I really appreciated the moral struggle that the Count went through when he realized that his revenge had harmed the innocent, destroying those he loved along with those who had injured him.
My only quibble with the entire story was the way the Count dealt with Morrel. I think it was excessively cruel and egotistical to force the man to give up entirely and irrevocably on life, then drug him, before restoring Valentine to him.
I agree, Jeannette. That was just sensationalism, I think. In addition, I think the redemption theme is rather less well done than the revenge theme. Loved it, though. It was rather like being totally addicted to a very exciting television series, but much better.
Yes that last bit of the plotline was not believable to me - because he was hurting only the innocent at that time.
I've been thinking about the ending a lot today. I was glad to see the Count face the repercussions of his revenge plots That Edouard had to die, that Mercedes was broken and bitter, and that Morrel's life was nearly lost, were all things he hadn't foreseen. His revenge was so much more than just destroying those three men. And, in the end, Danglars came out better than the rest of them. I do hope the Count remembers with remorse the things he did when he attempted to play God.
Does anybody else think that Danglers got off too easy? Was this because Monte Cristo was having second thoughts by the time he had imprisoned Danglers?
Yes, I think that was the reason. The death of Edouard seemed to be the tipping point. Even though Dantes previous had some doubt about his right to play avenging angel, he remained pretty sanguine about the endeavour until that point. To my mind, if Danglars got off too easily, then I think de Villefort was given rather too much to bear. I spent time feeling really sorry for him, whereas I didn't have much sympathy for either Fernand or Danglars.
M. de Villefort's crime was the greater, and his punishment was more terrible. I think he went mad because he realized that his punishment was somehow deserved, since he had called down punishment on others, perhaps unjustly, his entire career.
I really wonder how Morrel and Valentine could go back and live in the Count's grand house in Paris? They both must realize that the Count destroyed most of Valentine's family, but I guess that's all right, because Valentine didn't love her father or step-mother very much.
I really wonder how Morrel and Valentine could go back and live in the Count's grand house in Paris? They both must realize that the Count destroyed most of Valentine's family, but I guess that's all right, because Valentine didn't love her father or step-mother very much.
I guess, although I didn't really get the impression that de Villefort had been a bad prosecutor or had made a habit of acting unjustly. He had certainly been motivated by concern for his family name and therefore his own career in what he did to Dantes, and that action had its inevitable effect on his character. But what he did was no worse than what Fernand did to Haydee's family and in killing himself I think that Fernand got off lightly.
I felt that his taking the "hard line" with his wife made him realize how inflexible he might have been in dealing with other criminals. Think about Benedetto. There really was no evidence against him in Caderousse's murder, except for the letter accusing him. But, de Villefort recounted how once he deemed a person guilty, he built a case and succeeded in condemning them.
As for Fernand, I felt more sorry for Mercedes, who regretted abandoning her husband in his disgrace. She and Albert never even gave him a kind word, even though they must have known he would kill himself.
All these dishonorable people taking the honorable way out. I don't personally see the honor in it.
As for Fernand, I felt more sorry for Mercedes, who regretted abandoning her husband in his disgrace. She and Albert never even gave him a kind word, even though they must have known he would kill himself.
All these dishonorable people taking the honorable way out. I don't personally see the honor in it.
I definitely felt more sorry for Mercedes than I did for Fernand. But as for de Villefort pursuing Benedetto, it may be the lawyer in me, but I tend to think that it's up to prosecutors to make the best case they can and up to judges (and/or juries) to decide guilt. I didn't get the impression that de Villefort was out there manufacturing evidence against Benedetto, and of course, Benedetto was guilty. The irony is that de Villefort focused so much on making a case against Benedetto as a way of distracting himself from his own grief. He was therefore pursuing the death of his own son, while grieving for that of his daughter. There's a lot more tragic irony in de Villefort's situation than in either Fernand's or Danglars', in my view.
I agree. He lost two sons in one day, at his own hand, so to speak.
I just remember some passages where he was thinking back on his past cases, trying to decide who might be his enemy. I just got the impression that Edmond was not the only man he had gotten convicted by his persuasive speaking. I don't think it really compares to our modern system of trial by jury.
de Villefort was promoted on the backs of the people he prosecuted. And, his desire to advance, and to protect his name, was the catalyst for the whole story. If he hadn't hushed things up, many times, things would have been different for many people.
I just remember some passages where he was thinking back on his past cases, trying to decide who might be his enemy. I just got the impression that Edmond was not the only man he had gotten convicted by his persuasive speaking. I don't think it really compares to our modern system of trial by jury.
de Villefort was promoted on the backs of the people he prosecuted. And, his desire to advance, and to protect his name, was the catalyst for the whole story. If he hadn't hushed things up, many times, things would have been different for many people.
That may be right. However, all prosecutors have enemies. It goes with the job. Even people who were guilty would be likely to regard him as their enemy. It's true that the French criminal system is different to the common law system of trial by jury. However, the system of prosecutors and investigating judges which exists now has its origins in the Napoleonic Code, and is essentially the system de Villefort was working under. I don't know that the story supports a conclusion that he did to anyone else what he did to Dantes, that he actually manufactured cases against anyone or that he was corrupt. But of course, lots and lots of details of the narrative are likely to have gone straight out of my head in an effort to keep the major strands of the plot clear!
I'll have to look back and see if I can find the section I am thinking of.
I didn't have any real sympathy for any of them, I guess. Except Mercedes.
I didn't have any real sympathy for any of them, I guess. Except Mercedes.
Well, I didn't think that de Villefort's parents-in-law, his son or his father's servant deserved to die because of what he did. On the other hand, of course, the Count didn't kill them; he functioned as an enabler only, so if he hadn't introduced de Villefort's wife to poison, she may well have found some other way to try to achieve her end.
I meant I didn't have any sympathy for Danglars, Villefort, Fernand or Caderousse.
I got quite tired of the Count "pontificating" about the sins of the father being passed down to the sons. That's part of the reason Morrel's unabashed hero worship surprises me. He doesn't know how involved the Count was, but he does know that the Count knew about the poisoner, and didn't do anything.
It also annoyed me, the Count standing there saying, "You are forgiven, then!" to both de Villefort and Danglars. I really did not like the Count, in the end, and I don't know that I was convinced by the "sign from God" he received in the Abbe's cell. The Count still was convinced that he was on a mission from God, and justified in all of his cruelties.
I got quite tired of the Count "pontificating" about the sins of the father being passed down to the sons. That's part of the reason Morrel's unabashed hero worship surprises me. He doesn't know how involved the Count was, but he does know that the Count knew about the poisoner, and didn't do anything.
It also annoyed me, the Count standing there saying, "You are forgiven, then!" to both de Villefort and Danglars. I really did not like the Count, in the end, and I don't know that I was convinced by the "sign from God" he received in the Abbe's cell. The Count still was convinced that he was on a mission from God, and justified in all of his cruelties.
I agree. That's why in my review I wrote that the revenge them was better realised than the redemption theme. (Everything I read about this novel refers to the Count's redemption being part of the story). For all the Count was horrified by Edouard's death, for example, he never really showed any sign that he doubted that his "mission" was divinely ordained. Every time he questioned himself, he ended up feeling justified.
And, just in case he had any doubts, he went back to the prison, to relive those years, and regain his sense of outrage.
The redemption theme was rather weak. The Count proclaims that he "saved two lives" and that should make up for the rest. But, these were two people he would have gladly let die, so his reasoning is a bit poor.
I think my favorite character in the book was grandpapa Noirtier. He was a tough old bird, he never backed down, and he truly loved those that he loved. de Villefort might have been a better man if those two had been able to se eye-to-eye.
The redemption theme was rather weak. The Count proclaims that he "saved two lives" and that should make up for the rest. But, these were two people he would have gladly let die, so his reasoning is a bit poor.
I think my favorite character in the book was grandpapa Noirtier. He was a tough old bird, he never backed down, and he truly loved those that he loved. de Villefort might have been a better man if those two had been able to se eye-to-eye.
Mod
I too wasn't happy with how he let Morrel suffer unnecessarily in the end. I thought that was terrible.
They had to have cut quite a bit, to reduce your book's length by 400 pages. Next time you read this one, you can read the full version. :)
I really didn't like the Count all that much. A quick, and tender reunion would have been much more fitting.
I really didn't like the Count all that much. A quick, and tender reunion would have been much more fitting.
Mod
Oh, it was all his philosophy that Morrel couldn't appreciate his happiness if he wasn't ready to die for his lost love. I guess if Morrel had been happy after a month and forgotten Valentine, they would never have been reunited. The Count had quite the god-complex, didn't he?
Mod
Jeannette wrote: "I felt that his taking the "hard line" with his wife made him realize how inflexible he might have been in dealing with other criminals. Think about Benedetto. There really was no evidence again..."
I'm still working on this, trying to find the passages that made me feel this way about de Villefort.
I'm still working on this, trying to find the passages that made me feel this way about de Villefort.
I haven't read through all of your comments yet, but I loved this quote from the last chapter:
"Though there was apparently not enough wind to lift the ringlets on a girls head, the yacht was travelling fast."
"Though there was apparently not enough wind to lift the ringlets on a girls head, the yacht was travelling fast."
I'm too sleepy to think straight (I didn't sleep well last night for some reason). Will make some comments tomorrow about the ending, which was a bit of a let down, I thought. Or was he leaving the way open to writing a possible sequel?
I think it was a "ride-off-into-the-sunset" sort of ending.
When I was young, the movie, The Count of Monte Cristo, played often on television. The ending of that movie was the Count and Mercedes laughing and playing around a maypole. When I read the book last year, I kept waiting for this to happen! I cannot say I liked this Count, especially with his treatment of Mercedes, making her beg for her son's life, etc. Also, he was passing out money like candy but he NEVER gave any to Mercedes even tho' he killed her husband. And then at the end to decide he was in love with the underaged nymph lolling about on the boat! I am sure his incarceration changed him but he was just too angry and vindictive for me to really like him.
Great summing-up, Maude! I didn't really like the Count all that much, either.
In the newest film version, he is reunited with Mercedes, too. Someone told me the ending; I haven't seen it.
In the newest film version, he is reunited with Mercedes, too. Someone told me the ending; I haven't seen it.
That does sum it up nicely!
But why should things be any different back then than they are now? What man wouldn't lust after the nymphette lolling about on the boat? Really, Maude... ask a stupid question! ;-)
But why should things be any different back then than they are now? What man wouldn't lust after the nymphette lolling about on the boat? Really, Maude... ask a stupid question! ;-)
Jeanette and Hayes, Just today saw your posts! Jeanette, do you know if the new film version is out? Hayes, that naked nymphette was lolling about on the boat before he saw Mercedes again and she wasn't wearing clothes then, if I remember correctly. Dumas had it planned all the time, the scoundral!
Ha! I guess it's not as new as I thought it was! It's already 10 years old....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245844/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245844/
I didn't much like what they did with the ending.
Jeannette wrote: "What should Edmond do?
Watch the entire video..."
The car commercial is what is showing up here... is that what you meant?
Maude: I think it's such a mixed message. Everyone in Paris was having an affair with everyone else. Mercedes was a model mother and wife, but she had betrayed Edmond: she married what's-his-name.
A real, true (read pure) woman would have waited until Edmond came home or died a virgin. Haydee was the real true virgin and so was the right choice for him. Hate that message, but I think at the time (Susanna, correct me if I'm wrong) the affairs and loose morals were connected with the Royalists. At the end, Edmond was purified by his love for Haydee.
Watch the entire video..."
The car commercial is what is showing up here... is that what you meant?
Maude: I think it's such a mixed message. Everyone in Paris was having an affair with everyone else. Mercedes was a model mother and wife, but she had betrayed Edmond: she married what's-his-name.
A real, true (read pure) woman would have waited until Edmond came home or died a virgin. Haydee was the real true virgin and so was the right choice for him. Hate that message, but I think at the time (Susanna, correct me if I'm wrong) the affairs and loose morals were connected with the Royalists. At the end, Edmond was purified by his love for Haydee.
Yes, the car commercial. Did you see the ending, where the man chooses to rescue his wife from her fantasy lover, rather than stay in his own dream world? I thought the message related to the debate between Edmond choosing the "nymph" Haydee over Mercedes.
Poor Mercedes really didn't have the choice of waiting for Edmond. She most likely would have died from starvation by the time he returned 14 years later. She was barely subsisting at the beginning of the story. That Dumas could cast her as being unfaithful is totally wrong.
Poor Mercedes really didn't have the choice of waiting for Edmond. She most likely would have died from starvation by the time he returned 14 years later. She was barely subsisting at the beginning of the story. That Dumas could cast her as being unfaithful is totally wrong.
Right On, Jeannette! I did not like this Edmund!
