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The Waves
The Waves - Spine 2012
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Discussion - Week Three - The Waves - Section 5, 6 & 7
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My initial thought in section 5 was, why did Woolf only write three characters, and why those three in particular in regards to Percival's death?
I don't think Percival needed a heroic death. He was everybody's hero to begin with. Also, if he died saving a damsel in distress (for example) that would place him on a more human plane of existence when in fact he has existed on a more spiritual one all along.Also, falling off a horse, like falling off a cliff, puts him out of their reach for future idolation. The most startling indication is that Percival was not a diety, but human, just like them. If Percival can die, who can be spared?
Percival was an ordinary man who died an ordinary death. Now they must rethink their perception of themselves according to what is "ordinary."
Mod
So then, the ordinary death of used-to-be-a-hero Percival could also signal the death of their childhood ideas of heroes in general. We're all mortal. That sounds right to me.
Louis arrived in his working: he could manage the company (the ships were all around the world, ready to merchandise) and he was becoming more important to it because of his success (he had a lot of meetings with important people and started being in the rush). Pitfully, his sentimental life failed: Rhoda had left him to go to Spain.
Finally he wondered about his mid-life crisis as like as Bernard but writting it in a poem, specially when he wrote: "O western wind, when wilt thou blow. That the small rain down can rain?"
Mod
Louis' life is bittersweet, isn't it? He achieves material success, a home in Surrey, and a glass house with a rare melon, but still, his true love and passion never materializes outside of his garret in the city.
Jim wrote: "Rosario wrote: "Louis arrived in his working: he could manage the company (the ships were all around the world, ready to merchandise) and he was becoming more important to it because of his success..."Yes, it is. Maybe that's why he wrote about Rhoda in his poem, because he's full and empty at the same time, he needs to be loved by the people but he doesn't show that: that's why he seems to be (and is) melancholic and a loner. We know he has all that he wanted but he's still empty inside, so he writes to calm that pain.
Percival was an ordinary man who died an ordinary death. Now they must rethink their perception of themselves according to what is "ordinary."..."This interpretation seems right to me as well. To drag in the outside world, could there also be a bit of back door criticism of colonialism going on? Percival sets out in his heroic 'sun never sets' service of the Empire, then dies a mundane death when his horse trips. There are a few other passages that made me think this as well, such as the imagery of the men with poisoned assegais descending on sheep in the beginning of section 3.
Mod
There was some discussion around England's colonial adventures in the week one discussion. Anyone care to comment on the Percival in India scenario?
I agree that there seems to be a connection between Percival and British colonialism. Percival seems to be not only an idealized character, but a particularly British male ideal: sporting, not particularly cerebral (in contrast to the other male characters), handsome, gregarious, a leader. Having him die heroically would have been compatible with a colonialism-is-awesome! attitude. But to have him die in the service of the Empire in such a trivial way, thus cutting off what other characters predict would have been a brilliant future, makes it seem like Woolf does not feel positively about harnessing British ideals to colonialism. I like what Linda said about what Percival's death could mean to the remaining six.
And I love how Woolf foreshadowed the coming of death into the lives of her burgeoning characters. (Or at least I think this is what she is doing. Let me know if you think this is way off!)
In the room described in the interludes, things move from dim to bright in sections 1 through 3. In section 4 the room has become almost intolerably bright, but the shadows that have been driven off are still there, "conglomerated and hung in many-pleated folds in the background." Then in this section, amidst Rhoda's festival imagery as Percival arrives at the dinner, the festive violets lead to forebodings of decay, then, as Lewis says: "Death is woven in with the violets." I think this is the first time that death appears in the soliloquies...but I sure could have missed something.
In the section 5 interlude, right before we hear about Percival's death, there is a "zone of shadow" and darkness in the otherwise bright room. If the room represents their dawning lives, could the shadows in interludes 4 & 5 be death? And then Rhoda throws withered violets into the water as her tribute to Percival. Shivery!!
Did anyone see the Louis/Rhoda affair coming? I gasped aloud when I read that line from Louis! (Startling my poor husband!) Now upon reflection I'm not as surprised as I was when I first read it. For whatever reason I just didn't anticipate that at all.
Mod
Foreshadowed (pun?) indeed! There is a constant yin/yang mixing in the interludes - sun/shadow, growth/decay, and so on. Very much a circle of life kind of feeling. Waves come in, waves go out. Sun goes up, sun goes down. People/things are born, people/things die. The whole book is a meditation on existence...
Erika wrote: "Did anyone see the Louis/Rhoda affair coming? I gasped aloud when I read that line from Louis! (Startling my poor husband!) Now upon reflection I'm not as surprised as I was when I first read it. F..."I'd noticed it (just a little bit) in the ending of chapter 4. I'd thought their relationship would last, because they were simmilar, they were conspirators and saw life with different eyes (Rhoda with her endless imagination, and Louis with his poetic melancholy), but It couldn't last. I wish he could be happy and understood.....
Linda wrote: "My initial thought in section 5 was, why did Woolf only write three characters, and why those three in particular in regards to Percival's death?"I also wondered about this. It seems that some characters get more attention than others, as if their relationships are imbalanced in some way.
Did anyone understand the meaning of Rhoda's "rectangles and rhombus" ?
No ... I was hoping might answer that here.I think the reason Woolf did not give Percival a more exciting death was because it was not her intention to zero in on his personal thoughts, experiences, pain, etal.
She concentrated on the original 6 characters - the reader is perfectly capable of knowing Percivival's life - and it is enough. It doesn't need to be glamorized.
Section 5:
Interlude – The sun has reached apogee. All is brought into sharp relief. Colors change from the relentless intensity of the light. The atmosphere is charged with energy and potential.
Soliloquies – Neville reads the telegram and his world collapses – Percival is dead. Bernard is of two minds, trying to balance the news of the hero’s less-than-heroic death with the joy of his own son’s birth. Rhoda’s perception of the world is greatly changed by Percival’s death and she cries out to the street for this horrible gift.
Section 6:
Interlude – Past high noon, the sun shines on through the heat of the day. The birds halt their song, the cattle move slowly, the waves continue to crash.
Soliloquies – The friends are at the height of their power. Louis signs his authority, spreading order over distant chaos, feeling his importance in the scheme of things. Susan surveys her domain, shushing the world as she protects her children, ready to attack any who would threaten her cubs. Jinny continues her indulgence in her world, signaling to lover after lover, singing her song. Neville too, indulges his passions, but one at a time in private rooms.
Section 7:
Interlude – The sun begins its descent. The waves pull back from the far edges of the sand. The birds take flight in the golden afternoon light. The day is winding down.
Soliloquies – Bernard enters his mid-life crisis with a trip to Rome and a confrontation with the realities of his mortality. Susan basks in the sunshine of her afternoon, but pauses to wonder “what if?” Jinny catches her reflection and ponders the changes in her appearance and its allure. Neville meditates on his world and where it has brought him. Louis writes his epic. Rhoda walks in foreign lands.
Why would Woolf deny Percival a heroic death?
Has Louis arrived?
Do we feel sorry for Bernard? Or did we see this crisis coming?
As they take stock, are the characters’ lives successful, failed, or a bit of both?
To avoid spoilers, please restrict your discussion to Sections 5, 6, and 7 (and also the first four sections).