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[Darcy]

The Gods of Gotham

[Alicja]

I haven't even started TGOG, I have a few books I need to finish first but I'll get to it within the next month or so. I always find I was way more books I want to read than time to dedicate to reading.

[Portia]

I am so very the same. There is this guy in another group who reads three books a week, minimum. I check his postings when I am in a good mood and need to feel bad about myself ;-)

[Portia]

Thanks, Darcy, for providing the link. Time to get to my laptop.

[happy]

The movie is partially based on Doris Kearns Goodwin's book



which I strongly recommend for anyone interested in that period of history

[Allison]

Portia wrote: "I am so very the same. There is this guy in another group who reads three books a week, minimum. I check his postings when I am in a good mood and need to feel bad about myself ;-)"

Three books minimum?? What the heck does he do? I'm unemployed at the moment and there's not enough hours in a day to read nearly that much!

[Darcy]

I really loathe the North American cover for this book . Just thought I'd share that :D

[Portia]

happy wrote: "The movie is partially based on Doris Kearns Goodwin's book



which I strongly recommend for anyone interest..."

I second Happy's recommendation.

[Portia]

Allie wrote: "Portia wrote: "I am so very the same. There is this guy in another group who reads three books a week, minimum. I check his postings when I am in a good mood and need to feel bad about myself ;-)..."

Time for my Woody Allen story.

Many and many years ago when Allen was still doing stand-up comedy and speed-reading classes were all the rage (late 1960s), Allen appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show. He said he'd taken a course that was even better than the popular Evelyn Wood course. In the course he took, they taught you to read only the words along the margins.

He then said that as a result of taking this course, he was able to read War and Peace in an hour.

Wait for it.

"It's about Russia."

[Alicja]

Portia wrote: "He then said that as a result of taking this course, he was able to read War and Peace in an hour.

Wait for it.

"It's about Russia."

Well, then I could read War and Peace in two seconds and tell you its about Russia. All it takes is reading the back cover... O.o :P

[Portia]

Alicja, it 'a a JOKE. Hello!

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Allie wrote: "Oh thank goodness we've moved on from dead chickens and overheated animals! I felt so bad, I donated to help treat burned koala's in New South Wales bushfires :("


Oh Allie, that is so sweet. Poor Koalas are having a bad time of it right now with the enormous bushfires in Victoria and South Australia.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Portia wrote: "Not that I know of. TGOG seems more like a TV show called "Copper" that I think was popular with members here.

I'm planning to finish TGOG this weekend, so I'll watch for your comments :)"

*weeps* WAS popular being the operative word. I can't believe they cancelled the show. I am nearly at the end of season two and am not looking forward to the season ending...because there is NO MORE! *weeps*

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Portia wrote: "Alicja, it 'a a JOKE. Hello!"

I think she knew. At least..I thought she was being wry. :)

[Allison]

Terri wrote: "Allie wrote: "Oh thank goodness we've moved on from dead chickens and overheated animals! I felt so bad, I donated to help treat burned koala's in New South Wales bushfires :("


Oh Allie, that is ..."

It was your dead chickens comment that got me. I have a rule: (seeing I can't go straight vegan) I only eat meat once a day. On the rare occasion where I'll have it twice, I donate to some animal in need. I feel like I have to keep a balance in the animal world and that's how I felt about all that overheating animal talk. Now....there's another dent in my checkbook.

Word to the wise...if you come across the video, watch at your own peril!!! Nothing will pull at your heart strings like a burnt up koala :(

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Unless you're an Australian during bush fire season, then it's just "another day, another burned koala." :(

[Allison]

Oh my gosh!!!! I can't be hearing this :(

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

It's true. You have to shut down your reactions to burned wildlife otherwise you will go mental. At the moment there are vicious fires burning across three states - South Australia, Victoria and New South Wales. The toll on the wildlife is enormous.

[Alicja]

Terri wrote: "Portia wrote: "Alicja, it 'a a JOKE. Hello!"

I think she knew. At least..I thought she was being wry. :)"

Yes, I was trying to crack my own joke. Apparently I'm a complete failure at being funny. :P

[Haydn]

Watched this tonight..... It scared me....It scared his mother. (nothing violent or sordid)

Brrr... Couldn't do that. Why would you???

Sweaty palms just watching it. An excellent program though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVqe7k...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qnsCs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_YR8d...

[Alicja]

Haydn wrote: "Watched this tonight..... It scared me....It scared his mother. (nothing violent or sordid)

Brrr... Couldn't do that. Why would you???

Sweaty palms just watching it. An excellent program though.
..."

Oh, wow! Damn! And I thought I was bad-ass when I went bungee jumping but that's like playing in a sandbox compared to this! I wonder how he started doing that? Did he just get up one morning and think, hey, this sounds like it would be fun?

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Margaret wrote: "Unless you're an Australian during bush fire season, then it's just "another day, another burned koala." :("


I look away. I have never been able to harden myself to it and when the wildlife footage comes on the news I quickly change the channel or walk away. Those sorts of images scar me for life, I have to avoid them.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Allie wrote: "It was your dead chickens comment that got me. I have a rule: (seeing I can't go straight vegan) I only eat meat once a day. On the rare occasion where I'll have it twice, I donate to some animal in need. I feel like I have to keep a balance in the animal world and that's how I felt about all that overheating animal talk. Now....there's another dent in my checkbook. ..."

You are a noble creature, Allie. Wish the world was full of others like you.

[Allison]

Thanks Terri. Its worth it.

I went to a euchre (old card game) tournament Sat night and it was held at a church. Its $5 to play and end of the night, half total monies goes to the winner and the other half they donate to charity. I was told they welcomed suggestions so I listed several no kill animal rescues in need. I was then rudely told "why would we donate to animals when we could give to actual people?" My first thought was "Uh, because people have the choice of helping themselves" and my second was "what! holy s**t you people are supposed to be Christians!" Thought I'd share...

[Lisa]

Well all I can say Allie is thanks the gods for people like you and those of us who love animals and want to contribute to their welfare. I guess not everyone are animal lovers, obviously. And to each their own. For me, as you say they cannot defend themselves, so the onus is upon is to look after them. I'm afraid my very nature would have yielded a response that definitely would not have allowed for a second invitation, lol.

[Jon]

Good for you Allie! (Still grinning at the irony of "...holy s**t you people are supposed to be Christians.")

[Allison]

Haha thanks Jon! I thought that comment might get me in trouble. I wouldn't bad mouth someone's religion here on Goodreads, I was just totally amazed this woman said that. And in a tone DRIPPING with disdain! Like, how dare I even suggest it!!

Lisa - I had a hard time holding it in believe you, me! But I was there as a guest and didn't want to embarrass my friend as she frequents that church regularly. Otherwise, I wouldn't have cared, let them throw me out ;) you'd think though that someone would have been gracious enough to just say "thanks for the suggestion, maybe we can do that one week".

[Darcy]

Allie wrote: " I was then rudely told "why would we donate to animals when we could give to actual people?""

Not to mention it has been scientifically proven that animals help people, so if you help the animals, they will help us. Trump her with that one next time :D

Love the euchre

[Alicja]

Allie, have you thought about going vegetarian instead of vegan (although vegan isn't that hard, our vegan experiment is going well so far and we've both lost weight without even trying!)? Or reducing meat to 2/3 times a week and substituting it with other forms of protein?

Donating to charities is great but if we don't greatly reduce to demand for meat, the animals born to be our food will continue being tortured and killed at the same rate.

And now I'm done with my speech. I love to educate on v*anism but hate sounding preachy so if I sounded preachy, I apologize.

[Jane]

Veganism is fine for those who can do it--if they get enough of the right nutrients. For years I kept Orthodox fasting very strict [no animal products--basically, veganism], which comes out to over 100 days per year. My avoiding dairy for so many years at those times has led to bad osteoporosis, which is no joke. I go meatless on fast days, but have relaxed the other restrictions.

[Portia]

The issue of vegan diets is such a dilemma for those of us owned by carnivores (dogs, cats, etc.). Back in the late 1970-80s, well-meaning vegetarians tried to provide their cats with vegetable-centric diets only to find the cats sickened and, in some cases, died. Came to find out that cats need a substance called taurine, which is found in mice, and can be seen in the ingredients listed on cat food cans.

I certainly have no solution to this dilemma.

[Allison]

I wish I'd thought of that Darcy! Love the trump comment :) Isn't euchre addicting?? Just learned a few months ago so recently started playing in tournaments. I'm always the youngest there though. By like, thirty years lol.


Alicja: while I can't go full on vegetarian, I really only do eat meat 2/3 a week. Maybe 4. The once a day is just a general rule of mine. I could forgo most meats except hamburger because it goes into too many dinners. Never eat tacos/taco salad, goulash, spaghetti, meatloaf, German tomato soup again? Sad day! And no, you weren't preachy. Its awesome you feel that way :)

[Alicja]

I can't comment on people's medical outcomes but I do have a friend who can't physically process animal protein so she's been vegan since she was born and in her mid thirties is healthier than most people I know. I also know a few people who have been raised vegetarian since they were babies and now in their 30s and 40s, most are still vegetarian and healthy. But that comes not from experimental data but personal experience and that is unrepresentative of anything. Everyone should consult their own doctors about health choices.

That said, I won't lie and say vegan is always easy but it id doable with some planning. And as much as some old foods become out of bounds, a new world of foods opens up. We've discovered great new goodies at a nearby vegan restaurant. But I think it also helped that I've been vegetarian for almost 4 years and my girlfriend has been one for over 7 years before going vegan, we're used to the no meat by now and just can focus on purging the dairy out of our lives (which is much harder than the meat).

Regarding animals, we are omnivores and with a little care and planning we can live healthy lives as herbivores. My cats are carnivores, hunters, who can even be poisoned by eating certain plants (like garlic). But we can at least research the food and buy it made with cage-free animals. This is what we feed our cats: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/cat-food

Allie, maybe try a month going vegetarian. Look for substitutes for your favorite foods. For example, instead of beef in tacos, make them as you always do but sub in beans. For spaghetti, sub the meat in the sauce with more veggies or an eggplant (like an eggplant parm) with the sauce. Not sure about the other foods but I have even made vegetarian stuffed cabbage for my family and they've loved it. It can also give you the opportunity to find new favorite foods. There is just so much we are never exposed to until we actually look.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Terri wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Unless you're an Australian during bush fire season, then it's just "another day, another burned koala." :("


I look away. I have never been able to harden myself to it and when t..."

I know. It hurts so damn much.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

If I purged dairy from my diet I would be very ill.

My body finds it easy to draw all the nutrients it needs from dairy. My diet is mostly dairy and vegetable, with white meat about once or twice a week (if that).

My health now is the best it's been in years. :)

[Allison]

Alicja -

I've tried going vegetarian a few times, never sticks. My record is almost a month...and I was starving. I think I went straight to taco bell and ordered one of almost everything lol. The urge comes and goes to try again. The bean suggestion is pretty good but no thanks to eggplant! In the meantime, I restore equilibrium with donations and volunteering. I have tried to wean myself off of one thing at a time, like bacon. Sausage though is a different story. Sausage and hamburger....cant do it for now.

[Jane]

Allie wrote: "Alicja -

I've tried going vegetarian a few times, never sticks. My record is almost a month...and I was starving. I think I went straight to taco bell and ordered one of almost everything lol. Th..."

Do what you can, Allie. Seems to me cold turkey is very difficult. Do it in small steps.

[Alicja]

Allie wrote: "Alicja -

I've tried going vegetarian a few times, never sticks. My record is almost a month...and I was starving. I think I went straight to taco bell and ordered one of almost everything lol. Th..."

Like Jane said, do what you can. I am just wondering what you were eating that you were starving? I was at first as well when I went veg, but then I taught myself how to eat healthy and it never happened again. If you fill yourself with the right kids of food you can loose weight and never starve. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I love meat. I could never go vege. Like Allie though, I only eat meat 3 or 4 times a week, because I like non meat dishes too.
But I love me some meat...oh yeahhh. :)

I also grow it. We grow cattle for the meat trade and while they are killed (they need to be killed to be eaten) they are never tortured. They live happy lives here until they get to the abattoirs and the lights go out. They don't even know it is happening.

[Allison]

Terri wrote: "I love meat. I could never go vege. Like Allie though, I only eat meat 3 or 4 times a week, because I like non meat dishes too.
But I love me some meat...oh yeahhh. :)


That last line made me laugh :)

Alicja - at the time I didn't really know how to cook. Mac n' cheese and a pancake once in a while was really the extent. Now that I do, I don't enjoy cooking and its just me so there's really no point when I could just go make a pb & j sandwich or something.

[Allison]

Jane wrote: "Allie wrote: "Alicja -

I've tried going vegetarian a few times, never sticks. My record is almost a month...and I was starving. I think I went straight to taco bell and ordered one of almost ever..."

Cold turkey is verrry hard Jane. That's why I was starving lol. There's only so much mac n' cheese or ramen noodles you can take!

[Allison]

Terri wrote: "I love meat. I could never go vege. Like Allie though, I only eat meat 3 or 4 times a week, because I like non meat dishes too.
But I love me some meat...oh yeahhh. :)

I also grow it. We grow cat..."

There's nothing wrong with that, they are part of the food chain after all. As long as they lived a long happy, plenty of grass to chew on life, its cool. Well not "cool" but certainly understandable. Yay for Terri's happy cows!

[Alicja]

Oh yeah, those pastas will kill any vegetarian, nothing but empty calories! When going veg*n you gotta eat lots, lots, lots of veggies. And fruit. And legumes. And nuts. And more veggies. And then a little bit of starches like pasta and potatoes (although I do love potatoes). Believe it or not, it isn't about eating salads either. I hate lettuce and barely ever eat it, and I've been veg*n for almost 4 years now.

[Alicja]

Terri wrote: "I love meat. I could never go vege. Like Allie though, I only eat meat 3 or 4 times a week, because I like non meat dishes too.
But I love me some meat...oh yeahhh. :)

I also grow it. We grow cat..."

You are lucky! Where I live, all we have access to is factory farmed, filled with antibiotics and other crap, patricide-filled corn fed animals who barely have enough standing/laying room and who are left sick and diseased until the day they die. That is what I refuse to participate in (but if I was to survive in the woods and I had to hunt to live, watch out little bunnies, this vegan would set traps for you... I'm practical first and foremost).

[Allison]

That's a plus in my favor because I love veggies. My biggest problem with vegs/fruits is all the washing & cutting up you have to do. I get so lazy. Usually they sit in my fridge until they go bad. Waste so much $$ that way and produce isn't cheap!

[Allison]

I cant give up pasta. Don't make me Alicja! :(

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Allie wrote: ".There's nothing wrong with that, they are part of the food chain after all. As long as they lived a long happy, plenty of grass to chew on life, its cool. Well not "cool" but certainly understandable. Yay for Terri's happy cows! .."


And they are happy...well..not right now as we are in drought. :( Our heavy rain season was supposed to start in October and it is now late January and the rains still haven't arrived.

I see animals as being a part of the food chain too. I am no different to a lion or a bear. I am a carnivore and I kill animals to eat them. Only at some stage I evolved from a monkey (monkeys also eat meat and kill other animals to eat them) to a human.
My brain got bigger (some may debate this) and instead of hunting my food out on a plain, I got smart and fat and lazy and learned to contain animals within fences and kill them when I need them.
And when I have too many to eat myself, I kill them to provide food for my community of other monkey humans. :)

I do like to hunt for berries and nuts too. They go good with my meat sometimes. ;D

[Allison]

I'm pretty sure Terri just called us all monkeys. Lol.

[Allison]

Get out there and do the rain dance Terri. We need to stop those bushfires!!

[Portia]

Cranberries. At dinner on US Thanksgiving. Eat 'em up. Yum!