This just doesn't seem right!

[Robert]

I was reading an indie authors blog today and he mentioned how he is using the services of people off a website who will (for $5) submit glowing reviews on websites such as amazon and Smashwords, without event reading a book. I checked out a couple and they basically check out the sample and write something, or just use a pre-written review from the author. This would seem to go against the terms and conditions of amazon etc, but policing it is obviously going to be difficult. What are people's thoughts? Should they ban reviews from people who have not purchased a book? Or perhaps limit the reviews of non-purchased books to 20 words and remove the rating ability for these?
Now, when I think of books that have received over 100 reviews, it makes me wonder.

~Rob

[Lorraine]

I have come across adverts like these on freelancing websites I use... like $20 for 20 reviews from 20 different accounts... well the ones I've seen were for items and not books, but I guess it could come to that.
That's why I usually dont really take reviews into account and tend to go more from word of mouth....
Banning reviews from people that haven't purchased would be good, but I do put reviews on there for books I have bought on smahwords, so it's not helping my authors. Maybe restricting the review would be a better solution indeed :)
Don't have any ideas really :(

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

Limiting reviews would limit honest reviewers as well. Since I do t purchase a lot of the books I review from amazon I wouldn't be able to post. It is crap to charge for reviews of any kind though.

Generally when I look at reviews I check other reviews written by the people as well. If someone only has one or two reviews I dont give them a lot of consideration or if they are all 5 star or 1 star. I guess it's just a matter of the reader being aware of the idiocy that can happen.

[Patrick]

Marketing is one thing but a shill like that is wrong, plain and simple.

Like Scott, I tend to look at the reviews and the reviewers. And book samples, author's blog/website, etc.

You can shine sh*t and call it gold all you want, but the truth becomes evident pretty quickly.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

I would have to agree. It totally discredits the book if the reviews are paid reviews by someone that has only read the sample. Yes, as an author, you're looking for reviews for your book, but I'd much rather have an unbiased review from people that don't really know me so that when they tell me what they think about it, then I know they aren't trying to hurt my feelings.

On top of which, how are you supposed to become a better writer without truly honest feedback about what people liked or didn't like about your book? I've gotten many helpful insights from people who take the time to tell me what worked and what didn't work.

Big J

[Robert]

I think disregarding one-off reviews can hurt us indie authors. I have placed a plea in my books (ok more of an urge) for readers to place a quick review if possible. As many readers probably don't do this normally, if I do snag a review, it will likely be from a reader who has no other reviews. Potentially this is hurting me more than helping???

~Rob

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

If the reviews are overly positive or negative and they have no other reviews than it seems like a biased review. The ones written by family and close friends don't really carry any weight. I would guess that if someone is willing to post a review about your book then they most likely do so for others as well.

[Robert]

My last 2 reviews on amazon uk are from people who have no other reviews, I assume as a result of my asking for a review at the end of my books. Perhaps I need to get them to mention something about this in the review?

~Rob

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

I don't think it's a huge issue Robert, generally the shill reviews are fairly easy to spot and then the the only having written one review is a big tell.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd be thinking that your request at the end for a review was working! I did the same for my 2nd book. What happened? Getting more reviews on the first. Oh, well. Can't complain. Anyone who takes the time to tell me what they think, whether accurate or not, I appreciate.

[Eric]

I think that we're better off if Amazon doesn't make an excessive attempt at curtailing the false reviews. I'd rather some people scam the reviewing system than see authors like us miss out on a single legitimate review.

[H.c.]

It's hard to police. I know of a YA author whose first book wasn't selling well. Suddenly reviews popped up on Amazon praising the book - all lumped around the same period of time. I began to notice the reviews were all members of a local writing group (albeit sometimes disguised) - in a sense, friends and relatives. After a while, several teens wrote in and called the book boring and hard to get through (it was). Those were the real ones.

I kind of feel sorry for people who have to pad their reviews. Because, really, unless someone is actually buying the book, the reviews don't make much of a difference. Amazon tracks sales, not praise.

I don't want Amazon to censor, however. They've made some mistakes before by being overarching. And the shills, as Scott said, become easy to spot.

[Joana]

Wow...until now I never knew you could pay for good reviews...geez!

As an author, a review means nothing to me if it's not honest. I ask people to review my books all the time. It helps me know what people are thinking and that way I know what to do and not do with my next book.

Sure I love getting great reviews, but the ones that mean the most to me are not from my family and friends, they're from people who don't know me at all and commend my work. Those are the ones I know are true and unbiased.

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

I have no issue with friends and relatives leaving reviews, but they should be up front with it. I have added the tag copy provided for review or something like that at the end of my reviews. I have had a great time being a reviewer and hope that my reviews help readers find new authors. Being dishonest just destroys my credibility so it pays for me to be honest.

[H.c.]

I don't have a problem when friends leave reviews - but I do have a problem when it's more of a marketing ploy. Know what I mean? People who are critique partners who never actually paid for a copy, or read the final version but pulled reviews out of thin air. Although I suppose it's part of the game.

In this case teens read the reviews or were given the book by an adult and there was a backlash - deservedly so. As the "manuscript" that was submitted bore no resemblance to the book that was finally published.

[Latif]

I personally would feel like a huge failure if I had to pay people to review my work. What I do, and this might work for others is, I always comment each review I receive, making sure that each comment I leave is unique for that particular review, not to mention I make sure to mention their name. If I notice it's a full name, I might go as far as seeking them out on facebook (I know it sounds creepy) then reposting the comment I left on Amazon, on their wall. Sounds like a lot of work and it is, but I sleep a hell of a lot better at night. My book has been out since May of 2011 and I have 43 "REAL" reviews to date. For an idea of how I comment to the reviews, click here.
http://www.amazon.com/Freestyle-For-L...

[Scott, Fabled Reviewer o' Tales!]

Another little thing that can be done to show appreciation is clicking the button that says the review was helpful. It really doesn't have a huge effect, but for me with a decent amount of reviews written having helpful numbers helps with my legitimacy. Shill reviews tend to get negged pretty hard, so if you find someone with a good percentage of helpful votes they stand out as a legit reviewer.

I know that probably around half of the books I review don't even get a single helpful vote so not even the author has weighed in with an opinion.

[Latif]

Scott wrote: "Another little thing that can be done to show appreciation is clicking the button that says the review was helpful. It really doesn't have a huge effect, but for me with a decent amount of reviews..."

That's a good one Scott, yes I do that too. Just in case nobody else does, at least there's one.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

I do the same, by the way.

[Sheri]

For my own books, if I get a review, I try to comment to say thank you, even if the review isn't glowing. As for paid reviews, most readers and authors ignore the paid reviews. The readers are a savvy bunch, they know when they are being conned.

The thing I don't like is when readers discount five star reviews because they assume these are set up as well. As you all probably have read, there are many times a book deserves five stars and it distresses me to hear these reviews are ignored.

On an aside: I have some premade covers up on my site if anyone is looking1

[P.J.]

Joana wrote: "Wow...until now I never knew you could pay for good reviews...geez!

As an author, a review means nothing to me if it's not honest. I ask people to review my books all the time. It helps me know w..."


I agree. The reviews I've had so far have been honest, and in some cases gave me criticism where it was needed. Mostly, seeing as
Liberator's Ruin was my first foray into self-publishing, the problems were simply of a proofreading nature, the vast number of which I hope I've now fixed. The only time I've kinda ignored a reviewer was when they commented that they didn't like that I used numbers instead of spelling the number (so writing 5,000 rather than five thousand), which I decided to use stylistically. I still feel a bit guilty because I was getting a bit annoyed as I'd just finished a recent and huge edit (with help from Scott and co) and I really wanted to get on with my next book, having not done any serious writing for a year!

But back on topic! I think it's awful that some authors feel the need to bolster their reviews with fake ones. Don't they have any pride in their work?

[L.E.]

I think it is generally accepted that not only are some reviewers so far up their own backsides they only see the sun when they blink, others are more fictional than the characters in a book.

When I am looking for a book I very rarely read the reviews unless they are 1* and that's only because most of them are so funny they encourage me to buy the book. Taste is a very selective thing at the best of times just because every one in the world loves Harry Potter it doesn't mean I actually have an interest in reading it.

Star rating may attract readers to a book, but the general assumption is: too good a rating is a bad thing and 4* is really what you are aiming for. Even with the perfect rating though if the cover and synopsis are rubbish it isn't going to make a difference how many stars Joe Blogs of Nowhere in Particular gave it.

I note that some people are paying $20 for these reviews - wouldn't it be more beneficial to spend that much on buying your book and boosting your standing in the Amazon charts - thereby reaching a wider audience.

Perhaps I should launch my own website - send me $20 and I will purchase 3 copies of your $2.99 book - anyone interested : )

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

LE - LOL! Makes me wonder how many authors just went, hmmmm, dude, that's a great idea! :)

[Robert]

Deal! But only if you leave 5* reviews ;)

I do take your meaning about the good reviews being a bad thing, I just wish it didn't have to be viewed that way.... given the fact I now have a couple more reviews from readers who normally would not rate/review *sigh*

[J.H.]

I'm late to the party - as always - but I've just read this thread and I'm gobsmacked. I can't imagine paying someone for a review - first, I'm usually broke, and second - eeew. Just, eeew. It's like paying someone to date you. I'd rather have honest feedback & hopefully get a few real fans than have a bunch of fake reviews from people who have no actual interest in my work.

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

Too true. I'd rather have 10 horrible reviews rather than 1 fake decent review. At least you know the horrible reviews are honest. Well, most are. :)

How else can an author hope to improve themselves as a writer without honest feedback?

[Rosen]

It is a sad fact that reviews can make a massive difference to your sales, especially during the early days.

One of my books had two five star reviews and as soon as it got a third review (two stars) my sales halved.

Obviously, review fraud is completely immoral but I can see why people find it tempting.

On the other hand, having excellent reviews that don't match the standard of the book, might lead to a nasty backlash when readers realise that they're actually reading a toilet brush manual.

[J.H.]

Unless it's a very good toilet brush manual, and it finds it's target audience. Jokes aside though, readers will clue to fake reviews pretty fast. On a personal level - and this is just me speaking for myself - I'd rather have low sales and stay honest, and be able to sleep at night.

[Mia]

I agree. I would never pay for good reviews like that and I think it hurts every writer for those who do.

[Rosen]

It depend what scale we're talking about. If a friend, or somebody I've met in a forum, wants to review my book and I know they'll rose tint it, then I won't stop them. (Although I do encourage my real life friends to mention the connection.)

However, paying somebody to post multiple reviews from multiple accounts, is something entirely different and entirely disgusting.

[Simon]

Cant really add anything that hasn't been said already. The truth is if an author has to pay from his own money to add positive reviews they will never be a success. Not to mention that any (probably tiny) profit they might make from any sales are eaten up by spending out on bogus reviews. Truth is, unless a writer makes it big there isn't any real money to be made in this, and anyone who knows anything about how this business works should know that reviews are only a small part of successful book sales. The driving force behind a novel's success is word of mouth and/or reputable backing by a publishing house.

[Jeffery]

I've gone out of my way to get reviews from people I don't know who give their honest opinions. One of the albatrosses around the indie author's neck is that people think reviews are from friends and family.

This kind of chicanery doesn't help that image at all.

Jeff

[Jeffrey, Lentarian Fire Thrower]

No doubt. Reviews from family and friends are nice, but I feel they are not always honest. They, naturally, don't want to hurt any feelings, so they'll only say positive things about your book.

If all reviews are like that, how are you, as the author, supposed to learn from your mistakes? I've had plenty of feedback from my first book about my writing style, namely what was liked and what wasn't. I've modified how I wrote my 2nd book as a direct result, while still maintaining the feel I want. Just subtle little changes here and there.

Negative reviews, while a pain, are usually left by people you don't know and typically they'll say what they didn't like about it. I've had several. Some don't make sense. Others thought it was too sappy, intended for young adults only, which is perfectly fine for me.

Nothing makes my day more than waking up in the morning and checking the various listings and seeing a review from someone that says they really enjoyed the story and bought the sequel and even can't wait for the next in the series. I usually end up walking around all day with a goofy expression on my face. My wife takes one look at me and will say something like, "Got another good review, didn't you?"

:)

Big J

[Jeffery]

Jeffrey wrote: "No doubt. Reviews from family and friends are nice, but I feel they are not always honest. They, naturally, don't want to hurt any feelings, so they'll only say positive things about your book.
..."

I'm the same way. It makes my day to get a great review from someone I don't even know who was just interested in my book. I feel like I've accomplished something then.

My novel is not an easy read. I meant for it to be challenging and I think it is to a lot of people. But, in the end, most everyone seems to like it, which is just about the best feeling I can imagine.

I understand writers feeling desperate to get the word out. Believe me, I've felt it myself. But if you don't get the word out with integrity, what have you got?

You have to have serious backbone to be a writer in the first place. Completing a novel is a monumental task. But, it's only half the journey if you aren't willing to bare it all for honest scrutiny and be willing to take what comes back, good or bad.

Jeff

[Rosen]

Why have we leapt from "If a friend..." to "If all reviews are like that..."?

With the exception of disgusting fraudulent services such as the one that started this thread, surely a blend of reviews from a cross section of people who reflect your readership, is best.

When I started out, friends were 90% of my fan base . Without their feedback, I wouldn't have been able to grow as a writer.

On the few more recent occasions when friends have offered to review my work, of their own volition, I have been proud to accept. (Although I asked them to be honest about our relationship in the review.)

95% of my reviews are from strangers and it is an amazing feeling when an impartial stranger gives your work a glowing review. However, the ones from people I love mean a lot to me too.

Friends and family make up a legitimate part of my readership, and I am proud to let my reviews reflect that.

[Mia]

I agree. I think as long as you're not asking friends and family to run around giving you rave reviews, then there's nothing *wrong* with friends or family being supportive. They should just be honest, both in their reviews and their acknowledgment of the relationship.

Though I have to wonder, am I the only one with friends and family *more* critical than strangers?

[L.E.]

Reviews as a writer mean everything to me, but as a reader I really only read the very bad ones and even then I'm not sure I take much notice.

I think a lot of people treat reviews with suspicion. Reviews from family members for instance are usually ignored and could actually turn people away from a book because of the "cheek" of having your own mother post a 5 star review (of course the chances are the writer didn't even realise).

What shocks me about this is as a struggling indie author I need to boost my ranking on Amazon and the only way to do that is to get sales. The more sales I get the more sales it leads to - so wouldn't it just make more sense to give 20 copies of your book away and increase your ranking.

[Rob]

When I'm shopping for books I don't treat reviews with suspicion at all. Maybe I'm naive, but when I read a five star review I assume the reviewer meant what he/she said. Doesn't mean I'll agree with them though as I know tastes vary. I tend to compare the positives with the negatives... then I read the sample. The truth shows up then.

I think the ability to give samples (ebooks anyway) is a strength that is hard to subvert with paid reviews. Buying a movie is more risky for instance since you've only got the trailer to go on.

As Joe Konrath mentioned on his blog though, the books with the fake five-star reviews are soon sunk by the flood of WTF! one-star reviews from those tricked into buying the book. You can't escape far when you've pissed your readers off.