Independent Question of the Day discussion

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Conditions.

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message 1: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
I love House. Best show ever.
I keep a mental note of sayings he says that are thought provoking.

One was "Everything is conditional. You just can't always anticipate the conditions."

Analyze and let me know what you think!


message 2: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments You have now officially posted both quotes on your Greetham personal poster. Nice.


message 3: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Oh my god, John! House is the best show ever! Haha, and I love that you keep tabs on those thought provoking quotes, because I do too. I just write them down instead of keeping them mentally. I probably have dozens of House quotes floating around my house, hahaha. And that quote is actually one of my very favorites. It's written all over my house in fact. Haha, I love that you just wrote that. I'm not alone! Hahaha


message 4: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Never! HFFL

HouseFanForLife

Woww.. Just put myself a little lower on the cool scale. Haha.

Myke! Haha you're right I guess I did. At least not in one conversation! haha. Creepy you remember that though :P


message 5: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Haha, see, you just grew on my cool scale, so don't even worry! I think the people who are low on the cool scale are the kids who are HFFL's but wouldn't express it or own up to it. Fear not, John! :D


message 6: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Yesssssssssssssssssssss.


Soo... What do people think about this quote?

Is love unconditional? Anything?


message 7: by Myke (last edited Nov 17, 2008 12:05AM) (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments If love is unconditional it means nothing. There must be conditions for it.


message 8: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments I agree. People always say that they love unconditionally. That they would love, for example, their mother no matter what. But, what if your mother murdered your brother, or your father, or your best friend? Would you still love her? No.

Everything is conditional. Love is conditional. Like he said, we just can't always anticipate the conditions.


message 9: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments Hate the sin. Love the sinner, Jenny.


message 10: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments Oh and also:

I can anticipate the conditions for love - I will love everything... I just can't anticipate the conditions for respect or admiration...


message 11: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments You know, I've always heard that. And while I won't hate the sinner, I won't love them either. I belive you should love all people, but I'm not perfect, and I know that I can't love all sinners. Some sins are just too awful to be forgiven.

Do you love Hitler? I hate how people always default to him, but his sin was so heinous. I ask you, how can you love him?


message 12: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments Message 9:
Love the sin and hate the sinner.


message 13: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
So what do you guys think about.. I try and love everybody because I think it's what [my:] God wants me to do.

is love still conditional if you TRY to love unconditionally... I mean I might hate someone, but I'll turn around and say "no I love him/her because God created that person"
is it still technically conditional?

Not a challenge just want to know what you think because it's really a question I have. haha.


message 14: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments When you add the 'because' it becomes conditional.


message 15: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments There is no unconditional love just like there is almost no instance of complete selflessness.


message 16: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
but it can be pursued of course?


message 17: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Agreed.


message 18: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments It can be pursued, but pursuing it does not make it so.


message 19: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments I love Hitler because, how can I love God if I do not love Hitler?

(Godwin's law ftw.)


message 20: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Perhaps you don't have to love God.
Everyone says that God is almighty, but he has killed people, which is considered sin, no? Even if he killed sinners. He's still a sinner.

Is your only justification for loving Hitler that you'd be hypocritical for loving God and not him?


message 21: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
We are now getting into things that will forever be disputed until the disputer dies and sees for himself

I flat out disagree that God is a sinner. He has killed. Many. In theory he has killed us all. The people he's wiped out were people who experienced the great flood. Despicable, Much worse than the people of today. They were tearing the world and themselves apart with greed.

Just my opinion, no imposing.


message 22: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments I believe in an omniscient God... Everything an omniscient being does is right.

My reasoning for loving Hitler is this:
Jesus said that the most important thing is to love everyone, for how can you love your creator if you cannot love those He created in His image?


message 23: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments So I'll take that as a yes, haha.


message 24: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
I cannot remember the verse but it went something like "To love one made in the image of God is to love God"

Totally not verbatim at all..


message 25: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Everything seems to end up around religion...
Does anyone else find this disturbing at all?

I mean, I know when talking about purpose that creationism versus evolution will obviously come up. But with morals, and war and conditions, religion comes up too. Am I the only one who thinks that this is not a good thing. This is why there is so much fighting! Because there are so many religions that oppose eachother, causing hatred! Gah!


message 26: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Well yes I think that would seem like a gad thing unless you were religious. To me it just strengthens my faith on some levels.


message 27: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments Dissent is a beautiful thing... As long as it's nonviolent.


message 28: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments I agree with you Jenny. It is troublesome that every discussion leads to religion.
Religion is a problematic institution that brings both good and bad, but in many cases should not be used in discussions because no one will back down. In some cases religious dogma prevents people from seeing truth, and in other cases people use religion as their go-to evidence/support for everything. There is more to this world I assure you.


message 29: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments Thank you for agreeing with me, Josh. It means a lot. :)


message 30: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
but if we believe in our religion as much as you believe things are just human made morals, or something, we both are going to be stubborn and stick to what we believe, so is there really much difference?

and the "religious dogma prevents people form seeing the truth". The never ending argument is that religious people DO think their God and their Bible has the truth.

Anything about morality CAN'T be talked about without going towards religion if you are religious. It's just not possible.


message 31: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments But what if the truth is not just about morals. What if it's about science and history, or any topic really?

I'm stubborn, yes, but I think that I do see clearer than religious people because I don't have that bias to cloud my thinking.


message 32: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Faith is not a bias, it's another way of thinking.

Either way both sides think their right.

It's like how everyone says Obama supporters are blind and just follow popularity... No, people agree with his policies.


message 33: by Jenny (new)

Jenny (jennyryan) | 95 comments That's not true. Some people, yes, agree with his policies. But, there are people who do just follow the crowd.

And I do think that faith is a bias because it creates or supports disagreements with other religions. One religion could be 100% accurate and proven accurate and undebatable. But, those of another religion wouldn't believe it, or see the truth, because they are taught by their religion that they are right.


message 34: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
those people are probably stupid not bias :P more of a joke than an argument.

I'll get to this first thing in the morning, i need sleep.





message 35: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments On the inclusion of religion in discussions:

There have been some times were bringing religion into things was perfectly acceptable (discussing morality, purpose) and there have been some moments where questions have turned specifically towards religion (when John said "why then did God order the killings of thousands of women and children in the old testament? Would you say God was at fault? Immoral?" There are more...)

Also, often times comments regarding religion and God can be viewed as purely philosophical (i.e. discussing whether an omniscient being can ever be at fault... there are more).

I would just like to point out that if you regard religion as a bias, then you must regard the other extreme, atheism or lack of religion as a bias. We should, then, in our discussions, acknowledge that there is a possibility for a creator, but we should not use His existence as evidence for an argument (except in questions like "What is your purpose?").

That's all I have to say.


message 36: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Myke I agree with you but am curious:: So how can we as Christians answer something like "is killing moral?" or even "what is moral?" without bringing religion into it?

I think it was you [?:] that said a day or two ago that morals wouldn't exist without belief in a higher power? Correct me if I'm wrong.


message 37: by Jena (last edited Nov 17, 2008 10:02AM) (new)

Jena | 124 comments Myke as amazing as this may seem I actually agree with you :)

And I agree with Jenny on one point, I too believe that you should love all people.

And yes, I do love Hitler, although I may not like his actions. But that does not stop me from loving him as another one of Gods creations just how God loves me.

And somebody (I believe it was Jenny) mentioned how can you love your mother if she killed your brother...Well I have never had any murderers in my family, that i know of anyway, but there have been some extreamly rough situations in my family and I still love the person who caused the rough situations...I'd rather not get into details over a computer, if your really that curious. Find me at school.

and I love where this conversation is going ;)




message 38: by Bekah (new)

Bekah Hart | 25 comments I would have to say that things can't be conditional. For instance, with love. There are certain circumstances where you can't love them anymore. People let themselves love people, love can always be broken if you let it. There is a point where your neccessities in life go above someone else. I believe you dont have to love someone to help them though.
And I'd have to agree with Myke. Religion is not biased. Some people can be biased based off their thoughts revolving around religion. But religion is not biased in itself. As John had said it is just another way of thinking, it is an opinion.
And John, if you recall, Myke had said there are times when religion is perfectly acceptable to bring into the argument. But not every argument always revolves around religion, sometimes our most basic thoughts come straight from our heads and what we believe is right or wrong, regardless of religion. For instance, some muslims believe killing is moral, but not all. That opinion is not neccessarily based off religion. The thought of the morality of killing is strictly based on your upbringing, which does not always revolve around religion.


message 39: by Bekah (new)

Bekah Hart | 25 comments P.S.
I love House too John :D


message 40: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
Bekah I would like to correct you: muslim extremists believe killing infidels is okay. It's not a religion, it's a misguidance. I've heard actual Muslims say that so... But it's an opinion.


I have struggled with this whole topic, and I think things (love at least) can be unconditional. As much as I would love to hate Hitler, I know that he is made in God's image, and in that way I love him. In no way does that mean I have to support him, be his friend, etc.

and I think I basically just restated what someone else had already said.


message 41: by Josh (new)

Josh | 164 comments Extremists are not representative of their religion. They are fanatics who have twisted the words of something good to meet their own selfish ambitions.


message 42: by John (new)

John | 116 comments Mod
exactly.


message 43: by Jena (new)

Jena | 124 comments John I agree! and I agree with Josh in message 41 (I believe thats a first haha)!


message 44: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments So John, your love for Hitler is conditional, if you ask me. It depends on the condition that you love God (which is arguably unconditional...). So I guess that sort of makes your love for Hitler indirectly unconditional... but I would classify it as conditional.


message 45: by Jena (new)

Jena | 124 comments WOW MYKE! you actually made since and I agree with you. I guess that is somewhat conditional. good point


message 46: by Myke (new)

Myke (SarahPalin) | 183 comments haha, nice!


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