UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
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Dealing with amazon.com and the IRS - Authors!!
When I first heard about this, as a UK author, it almost made me decide against epublishing, but then I remembered I'd worked my way from New York to California back in 1993...with a long stop at an Ohio amusement park where I had the pleasure of 16 hour working days with one half hour break a day etc (10 minutes to walk to a food stand, 5 minutess to queue, 5 minutes to eat, 10 minute walk back to work)...but what was the chance of still having that old Social Security number now? I turned the house upside down. Didn't find the SS card, but found one old yellow tattered payslip with the number on it! So I've sent the W8BEN off to Amazon and fingers crossed. Though I've read several examples of the form's receipt never being acknowledged, one guy said he had to post it 3 times before success. Reading into the rules, it seems that after 3 years you have to submit another W8BEN also, to renew. And this is without even mentioning the authors I've read about who believed they had set up dollar accounts in UK, so as to avoid bank fees, only to find that the money still did not go through... And to open a US bank account I think you have to turn up at the US bank in person...if they even allow non-residents of USA to do that at all...
Rough game, the paperwork! Costly too, which is a shame...
Or an overseas dollar account? I don't know the ins and outs of opening one but I know several of my friends have one in order to save money on the exchange.I believe you can do it all on-line. I can ask around for names of the banks, if you like.
If you could do that, it would be great Patti. We did enquire with Santander but it appears they don't operate that service.
Lloyd's definitely do. Barclays and HSBC as well. Seems if you already have an on-shore account with the bank, it's easier to open the off-shore.
Just to update you, I rang the IRS and was told my ITIN was issued on 2/2/2012, I haven't received it yet but the nice man gave me the number so I can send off my W-8BEN to smashwords and Amazon. ;-)
Great Mel, does that mean you're going to get your money now?
This year should be okay, Lorraine, not sure about last year though. I'll see what my accountant says. ;-)
Glad it seems to be sorted Mel. What a nightmare! Hope you've got the champagne on ice!
Thanks Karen, I'm coffee-total though! lol
Very useful thread. Thanks for all the info guys. As it looks like I'm now making some money thanks to KDP Select I'm going to get this sorted. Yay paperwork and taxes! Would anybody like to break my legs with this hammer so I don't have to do them?
If broken legs was the cure, don't you think everyone would be doing it?
I'm doing cartwheels as I have my official letter with my ITIN sitting in my grubby little hands! Hehe!
At least that's one monkey off my back. I just need to try and reclaim my tax from the IRS now! ;-)
That's super news Mel. Can you not claim them back via your accountant? Mind you, that in itself costs money. Go on, tell me, how many forms this time?
No the accountant says I don't need her, Geoff. She was really sweet but said I just need to put my income in the little box, no need to show them my outgoings or anything like that. Then I have to fill out another form to claim back the tax, but I couldn't make her understand about the withholding tax! I'm going to ring the IRS on Friday I think, see what they say! I'll let you know what happens. ;-)
I'm not sure whether you found this, but phoning the country embassy IRS office is virtually impossible. We ended up phoning Philadelphia on a Friday when international calls are free. The first time we phoned, we got an idiot, but the second time we got ourselves a good one who understood exactly what we needed.The bureaucracy lottery strikes again.
Last time I had to ring the States, Geoff, the man was lovely and actually gave me the number over the phone. The letter arrived a month after it was issued.I'll try ringing later see what they say. ;-)
Try this for a simple way of sorting out your tax with a phone call. Going to have a try myself.http://www.warriorforum.com/main-inte...
To do that in the UK you either have to be registered self employed or open a limited company. If you do the latter you need to open a bank account. Anyone tried opening a new bank account lately? You think filling in a couple of US tax forms is hard...
Ah, there's your problem Mel. Wrong hemisphere.
LOL! Patti!Geoff I used to work for a building society and used to sigh when someone came in wanting to open an account. Makes me laugh how the criminals find a way round all the form filling in etc!
Mel (Lorne's creator, Pete's murderer) wrote: "Handy if you're an Australian! ;-)"If you scroll down the comments you will see that a South African has also managed to do it. Have been trying to make contact but the stupid Captcha words won't work ****!! so I can't get onto the website
If you're a UK citizen you have to get a tax identification number (TIN or an ITIN) don't ask me what the difference is because I just don't know) or, if you're a business such as a publishing company or partnership you need and EIN.Although this does mean that you'll have to fill in an american tax return at some stage. It looks like a hellava form too :/
Then you include your new ITIN/TIN/EIN number on the W-8BEN.
Amazon gives you some handy links https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishin...
Are you crying yet? I am.
@Karl,Pleased the link was helpful.
It might be useful for others trying to go the same route if everyone posts with more info as they progress. Please let us know if and when you get any tax money returned!
Woohoo - I got my EIN number. Doing the happy dance :)I followed David Gaughran's instructions as per the above link. I was on hold for about 25 mins so you need to use Skype. If anyone gets through straight away it would help if they told us what time of the day they phoned. I believe some depts are open 24 hrs.
The only question they asked that was not in David's info was when I started selling.
Now to tackle the W8 BEN form.
He just asked if I wanted to use my own name and I said yes. Just make sure it's exactly the same one you use on KDP - no extra initials or anything. I suppose it could depend on who deals with you. Someone else might have asked for a company name.
If you call someone who has Skype its free. If you call a phone number it costs. I think. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
Well I think that Skype phone calls are pretty cheap even when they do cost - way, way less than an actual phone call.
The call was remarkably cheap. I loaded up 10 Euros and the call was about 35 mins and I used less than one Euro. Don't forget to check all the instructions and get your headphones ready as they don't like speaker phones.
A lot of phone companies, my own included (Post Office Phones) offer free calls to loads of countries for up to an hour, between 9pm Friday and 8am Monday. So, after 6pm on a Friday is mid afternoon in Philly.Might be worth checking with your phone supplier first before spending on Skype.
I had to ring my mom from my mobile once. Ten minute call was near £20.
With PO Phones you can even phone US mobiles for free in those hours and the monthly charge is lower too, free evening and weekend calls in the UK, of course.It amazes me how much phone costs have fallen.
Thanks for all the information in here on filling out the forms. I went and worked out the w-7 form only to have someone tell me as I'm a small press publisher I can fill in a different form and just phone the right people. Wish I had known that sooner.My sales in the US aren't actually that high at the moment, however, so I think I will take a break from form filling for now and wait till I am closer to the total amount needed before they will pay anyway.
Am I right in the understandingt hat we're also going to be charged by our banks for cashing the cheques we are sent?
@Jess,You will be charged quite a hefty amount for a foreign cheque if you deposit it in the bank. I was also told I'd have to wait about 8 - 10 weeks for it to be cleared (in SA). I forward all my cheques to Auctionchex.com in the UK who I've been dealing with for quite some time. Very small charge and the money is in my account within a day or two :)
Well, I think we have finally found a way of getting the TIN more quickly and easily. After a telephone call to Philadelphia, the lady very kindly explained that we could go to one of their affiliated agents in the UK and they are authorised to validate the identity and check all the submitted documentation.As a result, we are now awaiting the TIN from the US, so we can then submit the W8-BEN.
Quite an expensive exercise, as we had already submitted the forms ourselves and they seemed correct. Unfortunately, we had not completed one line, Sophie's application was rejected and the supporting documentation, which they accepted, was all shredded, which is automatic. £120 down the shredder and we were faced with either having them re-notarsed or go to an agent. Either way, another £120, but at least with the agent it was completely scrutinised.
So, £240 later, it looks like the first stage is over. The good news is that the TIN number is for life, so, hopefully, Sophie will get a lot of use out of it.
I'll submit further information as the W8-BEN application continues and, of course, now the financial year has lapsed, how she gets her previous years tax back.
Wow... I had no idea that there was so much that I had to take into account with this. I thought it was a simply 1099. I'm so glad I have an accountant to deal with this stuff... and on top of that, he's dealt with several authors so he has experience with it. I am curious though, do I need to worry about getting a tax id with the UK for sales there and VAT and all?
I would suggest that you contact the HMRC (web site is http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/). I'm not sure what the arrangements are regarding the UK.VAT registration is not normally required when the turnover is below 70,000 UKP. I'm also not sure whether the UK withholds the same way that the IRS expects Amazon.com to.
If I end up being so lucky as to have a tax problem i.e the US withholding etc, then I will add the tax paid as an expense when completing my Australian tax form, and as there is a tax treaty between the US & Oz to avoid double taxation, I will expect a refund or offset from the Australian tax office for taxes paid within the US. The UK authors may also have a tax treaty with the US. It will then be up to the Oz tax office to get their sticky fingers on the money being held in the US. On the other hand one could switch to selling via Smashwords as I don’t thing they withhold tax for foreigners, as they have actual talked to the US tax office and explained what they do for a living . . . . either way paying US tax just reduces tax in your own country as it is an expense of producing revenue. Of course if I manage to sell a million e-books perhaps my attitude will change :-o)
Anyone who is still unsure about going through the process of stopping the 30% deduction, you can stop panicking. The process is actually very simple, and I got my EIN (you do NOT need an ITIN) number last night by phoning a number in the US.This blog post has step-by-step instructions - http://catherineryanhoward.com/2012/0...
In a nutshell:
1 - Phone the number in the US. Give your name, address, phone number. They then give you your EIN, right there and then.
2 - Print out the single-page W-8BEN form. Fill it out.
3 - Mail the form off.
4 - Wait a few weeks.
5 - Hey presto.
Mike, you are a star for sharing that.You've helped a great many people, I'm sure of it.
Have an entire bag of cookies!
The links to the tax forms on the first entry in this thread are really helpful, thank you.
I think I'll look at HSBC international again and see what they say. Good thinking. ;-)