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I've decided to take it easy because we have waaayyyy too long to read this book by. Can we try and knock it out by mid-January at the latest?? Can we do a thread on when people get their copy so we'll know? I could have poured through it but I'm trying to pace myself. Karen, when did you say you were getting your copy?? How bout everyone else. I already had it and I think kat did too... what about you guys??
Mod
I was thinking we should have rules on stuff. Like, when we pick a new book, do we read one from the old stuff that didnt get picked or just have everybody put in suggestions again? If a person doesnt want to read a particular book, can they skip a month or veto or? Also, yes Karen, I was thinking that this book is short enough that we could pick another for January. What do u think of everyone picking a category and the throwing in two choices for that category?
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Mod
I have my copy from the library on Friday, I got to page 22 the other day and just made some headway this morning since the kids are still asleep after staying up late. So I am on page 74. Kat, I hadn't quite formulated this idea of all the negative with the majority of the females in the story, but I kept expecting to encounter a female with some likeable qualities (other than the unicorn) and hadn't yet.
Still hoping for Schemendrick to find his mojo (Captain Cully had me wondering if indeed he is the rumored son of Haggard and that he has ulterior motives for rescuing the unicorn) and maybe Molly will soften....
By the way I felt terrible about her being captured by Momma Futura... I was like 'NOOOOOO' but then I consoled myself by reminding myself that there would be no story worth reading without some conflict on the way towards the climax.
I'm still waiting for either a: a paycheck to order the book or b: the library to send it to me. Want to bet which one will happen first? Therefore, I haven't read it yet and probably won't be able to finish it by the end of Dec. Don't let me hold you back, though. Move on if necessary.
One suggestion: Since it sometimes takes weeks for our library system to have a book available, could we do the picks for the next 3 months in advance, so that we will all have time to get the book for the correct month?
I like the suggestion of choosing a genre for each month. That should keep everyone's interest up and keep us out of the rut of the same type of book each month.
Love the quotes and comments so far! Can't wait to actually read it!
Molly Grue is my absolute favorite character... you'll see, you'll see. The part where she first meets the unicorn is one of my favorites. Also, I have trouble forming new opinions about the characters seeing as how I have seen the movie about a thousand times and it is almost verbatim of the book. I would suggest you watch the movie if you haven't already.As far as the feminist issues, I didn't get that, but as I said, it's hard for me not to equate the tone of the movie with the book and all my original feelings about it. I don't think I was aware of such complex issues in my adolescence and so they don't seem obvious to me here. It's a fairy tale. There are rarely female heroes in fairy tales.
I love all the characters in this book, ACTUALLY, if I had to choose a favorite, I'd choose King Haggard. I always have a soft spot for the bad guy, don't mind me. In the upcoming Avengers movie, I will be voting for Loki.
BTW, Beagle was 23 when he wrote this, which for him being so young, I would say the underlying messages are pretty deep... you know, for such a youngster and all.
BTW, I finished chapters 2 and 3 last night. I didn't like the language as much as that in chapter one but it was alright. I didn't have a ton of notes or quotes underlined in these two chapters, but one small part stood out to me. It's where Rukh is introducing Fortuna for the first time and he says this:"She doesn't look like much, does she?" Rukh asked. "But no hero can stand before her, no god can wrestle her down, no magic can keep her out... or in, for she's no prisoner of ours. Even while we exhibit her here, she is walking among you, touching and taking. For Elli is Old Age."
Then of course next the unicorn is all freaked out because her immortality has no exposed her to these feelings... the book says this of how she felt:
"She felt herself withering, loosening, felt her beauty leaving with her breath. Ugliness swung from her mane, dragged down her head, stripped her tail, gaunted her body, ate up her coat and ravaged her mind with remembrance of what she had once been."
When I read that I thought, "Yeah... me too, Unicorn, me too. Every... single... day."
Here were a couple other things I liked:"Alone in the moonlight, the old woman glided from cage to cage, rattling locks and prodding her enchantments as a housewife squeezes melons in the market."
AND, of course, my absolute favorite line in the movie that I forgot to mention while I was reading chapter one... from the Butterfly,
"You can find your people if you are brave. They passed down all the roads long ago and the Red Bull ran close behind them and covered their footprints."
That is all for now, peeps.
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I hear ya! I'm still waiting on my library here, but I know it will be a quick read, so no worries. We can be on the slow train together!
Well, peeps, just finished chapter 4, only the very beginning and tail end of which appear in the movie. I didn't care for all the Schmendrick hero worship due to his wizardry, I mean seriously, I'm assuming that in this age/realm, wizards are pretty common, and I've never heard of them being treated like royalty. So, chapter 4, you, my friend, are to poop on.Kat-- Let me get to Molly Grue in the book, I just made it to Captain Cully, boldest of the bold and freest of the free, so hang out while I discover old M.G. Maybe she's just a naggy hag in the book.
The reason I always loved her was because she is the very opposite of the unicorn, and it comes to her anyway. I always thought unicorns should come to middle aged women who have lost so much of the beauty of their youth because they, unlike their innocent young maiden counterparts, know how valuable it really is, and actually appreciate how fleeting and glorious it is to be beautiful before age and decay snatch it away.
This is why I love Molly Grue. A unicorn comes to her and she collapses, weeping for her lost youth and beauty. She is strong and yet so weak in this light. I loved her for that because it made her more beautiful to me than the unicorn. To me, a woman that has years under her belt, who knows how to care for someone else besides herself, who knows how to do more than pamper her own vanity, is of so much more value. While a beautiful girl who spends all her time in selfish pursuits, tending her looks, her hair, her make up, her body, she is simply without, and very dull, for she gives nothing back in a world that is severely lacking in skilled hands and care takers.
Here's a link to my favorite MG scene in the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFfBuz...
Check it out. :)
I've finished... It took me way too long for me to read it... I started on friday and finished yesterday morning. I am not sure what to think right now. I don't feel I entered this story with as much as abandon as I usually do. When I read I am usually right there, even when I am doing something and not reading I am thinking about the world in the book. This didn't happen for me. I felt more like I was parting a cloud and looking down on the events. I think this book could have been longer. I am not sure if the characters weren't developed enough. Am I crazy... it's so well thought of. Am I just not filling in the blanks well enough to give the characters more developement. I just don't feel I got to know the characters as intimately as I would normally feel. Maybe this is because it's a YA novel. It's only 212 pages. I imagine at 12-14 I would have been not so concerned about character developement. I do think it's my pet critiqueing topic. I seem to feel deflated when A book has an awesome plot but I just don't get enough of the character's thoughts feelings background that makes them as they are in the storyline etc. I think I may watch the movie and see how I feel afterwards!
Kat wrote: "...They seemed to spend an awful lot of time moping around the castle, when I wanted them to hunt for the Red Bull to study him and find his weakness, then use it against him. (Is it too much to ask for problem solvers in a fantasy?..."Maybe problem solving would have developed the characters LOL!
Hey guys, it's a fantasy children's novel... let's not get carried away. I mean COME ON. PLUS... how could they go study the red Bull all the time right underneath Haggards nose? That's not cool. Poor haggard. On other notes, I'm having trouble getting into Pettigrew... I just started writing again yesterday and got 3k words done! Pretty stoked about it. I'm going to a "write in" this saturday for approx 4-6 hours so I may be able to get more done there too. JANO may be too much pressure for me, but I may shoot for 30 K by the end of this month, maybe like 80 k for the whole book.
Well for the love of noodles, learn to control yourself. I try not to be too much of a jerk with other people's writing unless it's just absolute feces... like, actually written with poo, about poo, for an audience of maggots.
Nope not ragging... to quote myself:Maybe this is because it's a YA novel. It's only 212 pages. I imagine at 12-14 I would have been not so concerned about character developement.
I agree Kat if we were ragging it would have been an all out mudfest among other things. Also confused about 'getting carried away' I am pretty sure that wasn't carried away least ways for me.
But that being said I am pretty sure you are funning us right Leann? Because the alternative interpretation brings to mind
Rule #3 Think Outside the Box - be tolerant of others' views and preferences, ...
:-) :-) :-) :-)SMILES all around! Please not let my words be offensive as that is in no way my intention. Only trying to communicate via a handicapped means of communicating. :-) :-) :-) :-)
BTW Leann awesome on getting 3k done and hope you reach your January goal!
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BTW, I just read an interview with an eminent professor of history, who said that he often recommended books he didn't like, just for the great discussions! Now that's a man that likes to broaden his mind!
I didn't really think you were "nagging" that much before, I just thought you were taking a childrens book a bit too seriously. I definitely think you're nagging NOW though... Gees O PETE, man! Lighten up!
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Do you think that Last Unicorn should be read within the context of its genre? Its target age group? Or should a story deliver everything you desire no matter what? (Of course, this leads to the more uncomfortable question of why we don't read certain genres. Do we find romance to frivolous? Whodunnits a bore? Classics are outdated, or fantasy to trite?)
Incidentally, can you think of a book that is a shining example of the best in its genre - when you wouldn't read another thing in that category? I'm going to rack my brain for some jewels like that, and get back to you.
For now I see through a glass, darkly. I absolutely love lines like that one. Yes, Karen, I DO think that, within reason, we should expect stories of different genres, time periods, themes, etc to have a similar feel or similar qualities.
Yes, I would be very much annoyed with Anne Elliot of Persuasion were she to act in a contemporary setting the way she does in the time period of the book. I would hate that she allowed herself to wait for Wentworth to go out and make his fortune and come back a wealthy man before finally deeming him suitable marriage material. She would be completely shallow to me. BUT, in those days, that was just part of a woman's life.
Wow! and I just finally got the book! (I think our library system uses pack mules to get the books from one library to another.) :)I think it's interesting how we develop an idea of what a particular genre should be and then the next author in that genre blows all our preconceptions apart. I actually like that, because honestly, I want to continually grow and be challenged. Books would be exceedingly dull if everyone followed a 'formula'. I'm sure we've all read those 'formula' books and while they can make a nice interlude, eventually they get boring. I think that genres should have a few very minimum requirements to identify it, but I know of many books that are a particular genre, but leak over into another one.
I also think that it's interesting to read the same book at different stages in your life. It never seems like the same book, LOL, because we are not the same people. Our life experiences shape how we create the story in our head. Books that I have read when I was younger hit me differently when I read them later. I like that, as it makes the story fresh and new!
In a perfect world, we could expect that each book in a particular genre would deliver the perfectly developed character, detailed storyline and fantastic descriptions. As we know in the real world, that doesn't happen. All books won't appeal to all persons. Isn't that great? It means that we are all different, thank goodness! I can't imagine a more tedious existence than to be surrounded by other people exactly like me!!!
I tend to read a book with the genre in mind, for instance, if it's YA, then I don't expect the level of complexity that I would find in an adult novel. Again, however, that preconception is being challenged with the new crop of authors writing such awesome works like Harry Potter and others. My one criteria for a new book/author is: was I entertained and/or informed? If that happened, then it was a good use of my time. If there was more than that, awesome! Maybe I just found a new favorite author!
I was always irritated by Jane Austen's characters also, which probably explains why I could never read all her books, lol. I was always screaming at them in my head, "Break free! Don't be such a doormat!" (Can you tell that I like strong female characters? Hmmm, could this be because I AM one? :)
Like I said in another thread, 'Embrace the weirdness'. LOL, I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions. I know that I probably won't agree with all of them and that's ok, otherwise, there wouldn't be a discussion. :)
Karen wrote: BTW, I just read an interview with an eminent professor of history, who said that he often recommended books he didn't like, just for the great discussions! Now that's a man that likes to broaden his mind!That's pretty cool. I have to agree with him that would make for great discussion!
I agree that genres are in place for the very reason of grouping them within a certain number of constraints making them what they are. And therefore we find ourselves attracted to reading certain genres for the needs and expectations we have. So if one ventures into a genre they don't normally read they may have expectations that won't jive with that book or it's genre and therefore the opinions they may form may not jive with say someone who is used to reading that genre and enjoys that genre very much. That person has had many experiences reading said books to have a different set of ideas to compare that book to. But if you haven't read a book from a specific genre ever or maybe it's been many years you may have only your (possibly limited) expectations and experiences to fall back on in forming an opinion.
;-)
Mod
Very insightful, Shanan. I wonder what our favorite genres reveal about our "personal needs and expectations". I think I'm afraid to find out!
On the other hand, everyone has a different idea about what a genre includes. For instance, I love mysteries. However, my idea of a good mystery is a title by Agatha Christie or P.D. James - all puzzle, no blood. Someone else, who also professes to love mysteries, can't stand either of those authors, but loves Clive Cussler or Janet Evanovich. They are all classified as "mysteries", but with different sub-genres (cozy mystery, political thriller, and so on). So, even our very idea of genre is subject to interpretation!
Did you hear the real story about James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces"? He originally wrote it as fiction, but his publisher thought it would sell better billed as a memoir. As a result, people thought he was giving his life events (only partly true), and were outraged when it was revealed that large sections of it were completely fabricated. By the time it was all over, people forgot he had just written a good book - it was all lost in the argument over genre. Interesting, huh?
re: James FreySo that makes me think that if we read a book because it's billed a certain genre and then it turns out that indeed it really didn't fit that genre but we still enjoyed it where does that put us and the book LOL???? For instance as you mention, if you enjoyed A Million Pieces (I vaguely remember it's popularity) and then you find out it was highly fictionalized so then you throw up your arms and say well that was a crock load.... you just lost something that you enjoyed only because of your preconceived ideas... which is in part what genres do to us. Yes they make it easier to find books we want to read but and I think that's a big but, it makes us miss out on some pretty incredible books if we are limiting ourselves to a certain genre... and I am so guilty of this myself.
Karen said: I wonder what our favorite genres reveal about our "personal needs and expectations". I think I'm afraid to find out!
me too!
thanks karen!
Now THIS is a fun discussion! I love it!Karen and Shanan: It seems so odd to me that people would read a book that is either fiction or nonfiction and raise a fuss about a genre switch or finding out when it is more one than the other. If you loved it, you loved it.
ALTHOUGH... I kind of had an interesting experience with this recently. I read The Lovely Bones (fiction)which is the account of this girl getting raped and murdered and then what happens to her and her family and her murderer afterward. Then I got the author's other book which is a memoir of her actual rape account from when she was 18. I thought TLB wasn't actually that graphic for the subject matter it was portraying. When I read the memoir I was shocked at the raw details from her rape. It's awed me how the real story was so much more vivid.
Paula: You said "I tend to read a book with the genre in mind, for instance, if it's YA, then I don't expect the level of complexity that I would find in an adult novel. Again, however, that preconception is being challenged with the new crop of authors writing such awesome works like Harry Potter and others. My one criteria for a new book/author is: was I entertained and/or informed? If that happened, then it was a good use of my time. If there was more than that, awesome! Maybe I just found a new favorite author!"
Stop creeping into my brain and stealing my thoughts! This is exactly what I meant to say in my last post but failed miserably due to constant interruption while I was trying to type it.
BTW, Karen, I am quite enjoying Major Pettigrew so far. But it's not surprising, I actually enjoy realistic fiction. I also love hearing older people's thoughts, they feel so much more like my own.
Leann wrote: It seems so odd to me that people would read a book that is either fiction or nonfiction and raise a fuss about a genre switch or finding out when it is more one than the other. If you loved it, you loved it.I was thinking along similar lines. I mean if you enjoy it what does it matter if it ends up not being the genre you expected. So that's where grouping books into genres fails us if we use them for preconcieved expectations and base our enjoyment of the writing based on that alone.
Mod
However, isn't it interesting how once we find a book we really love, we go on a search to find another one just like it (thus the popularity of sequels and series). As a librarian, I had people come in all the time saying, "I really loved ________. Can you find me another one like it?" I always had to ask for more details, like what specifically they loved about the book...the love story, the action, the humor. A lot of times, they enjoyed a particular aspect that could be found in another book in a totally different genre they would never have considered, because they thought they liked the original book because of its category. I think that's what I miss most about those days - the "hunt" for the perfect book for a patron. I felt a little like a matchmaker!
Ok, so I'm finally getting to read The Last Unicorn! Hooray!I like the poetry feel to the book. So far, it has a very 'traditional' fairy tale feel. By that I mean that it feels slightly old world, with prose that is a bit archaic to modern ears, but in that lovely formal, slightly ornate style that gives us the sense that we are reading a story from 'long, long ago'.
I haven't gotten very far, but that was my impression so far and I liked the overall ambiance of the book. We'll see how I feel about it once I get to the end!
Ok, after getting my oldest son married off, I've finally been able to finish The Last Unicorn! My thoughts:
1. Overall, a nice book. Of course, not on a par with something of the stature of The Lord of the Rings, but a pleasant read nevertheless.
2. My sympathies lay with the Unicorn. I know everyone said that they were really rooting for Molly Grue, but I felt she was really a secondary character, although she was instrumental in helping the Unicorn complete her quest.
3. Some of the prose was lovely. The book seemed to lose steam towards the end however. (Or maybe that was just me losing steam, lol.)
4. I felt that the author was half-heartedly trying to make this a farce about fairytales, especially with Captain Cully and his band characters. Also with Schmendrick's several references to being in a fairytale. It didn't seem to really fly well, though, as if Peter couldn't make up his mind to make fun of the fairytale or just go with the flow of the fairytale.
5. It did have some moments of greatness and I especially loved the Unicorn's characterization of her immortal nature. It was easy to feel that and I don't think I've read another book that described that type of creature so nicely.
My favorite passage: Schmendrick: "We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Overall, a nice read. I'll have to read some more of Peter's later work to see how his writing changed and matured. :)
Did you love it? Hate it? Have the cover tattooed on your left hip, or use the pages as kindling to burn your ex-boyfriend's photo?