Who Is The Best Wizard Of All Time?

[Enakshi]

this is not a fair question

[Liam]

I say we hold a battle of the greats. A deul between the greatest wizards, supervised by the biggest nerds! Us!!

[Shanna]

Graham wrote: "I say we hold a battle of the greats. A deul between the greatest wizards, supervised by the biggest nerds! Us!!"

For sheer ingenuity and power and the ability to take a beating and keep going, not to mention kick ass banter, it has to be Dresden!

[Travis]

Has to be Gandalf... is there any other??

[Travis]

You shall not pass!!!

[Richard]

One that all you noobs and amateurs need to read - Elric.

Aside from commanding all the dragons, he destroyed the fracking universe. Who can do better than that?

[Travis]

plan on reading that soon...

[Bill]

Richard wrote: "One that all you noobs and amateurs need to read - Elric.

Aside from commanding all the dragons, he destroyed the fracking universe. Who can do better than that?"

Stormbringer did most of the dirty work.

[Jeannettecc]

Jeannettecc wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Gandalf the Grey is THE wizard to end all wizards. He fought a Balrog, died, came back to life as Gandalf the White, resisted the temptation to take the ring as his own, fought valia..."

Will wrote: "Liz wrote: "This might be the most hilarious thing I've read on a goodreads discussion"

*takes a bow*"

I agree with Lauren

[Richard]

Bill wrote: "Stormbringer did most of the dirty work..."

Indeed he did, Bill, but if the Eternal Champion cycle tells us anything, it's that we are all slaves to the turning of the wheel. In such a context, we are either responsible for all our actions or responsible for none of them. Elric used Stormbringer just as Stormbringer used Elric. the demon just happened to have the last laugh...

[Pandora]

I like Merlin, Gandalf, Dumbledore, Sauron, and even Voldermort....but if I had to choose one, I'm going unconventional and picking Harry Dresden.

[Bill]

Richard wrote: "Indeed he did, Bill, but if the Eternal Champion cycle tells us anything, it's that we are all slaves to the turning of the wheel. In such a context, we are either responsible for all our actions or responsible for none of them. Elric used Stormbringer just as Stormbringer used Elric. the demon just happened to have the last laugh... "

I'm reasonably sure Stormbringer was a she...

...anyway, if I was to give credit for being a great wizard to anyone in the Elric saga, it would be Stormbringer herself. I wish she had a bit more personality.

Elric, on the other hand, was less of a wizard and more of a summoner, if memory serves (it has been a while since I read through the original novels). He was a fascinating character and anti-hero, and I fully intend on re-re-reading the books again, but it's hard to think of him as a mage-type.

[Roberto]

I think Severus Snape is the best

[Richard]

Bill wrote: "I'm reasonably sure Stormbringer was a she..."
If you want to get pedantic about it, Elric may have seen Stormbringer as female (in a single short story for a single print run), but all references to gender were removed in later editions by Moorcock, which implies he did not want Stormbringer seen as either gender. Personally, as Stormbringer was described as having a brother blade (Mournblade), and being otherwise identical, I made the assumption that would make it a him, if gender was appropriate at all. At the end of the Stormbringer novel, Moorcock only refers to the transformed sword as 'it' and we're probably better of doing so too.

Wizard - summoner... what? You have strict definitions for these two classes, have you? They are distinct and other people besides you accept them? I've never seen such a weak splitting of hairs. And if you want to get to the source, Moorcock penned the Hawkwind song about Elric, called 'The Wizard Blew His Horn,' so I'll go with the author in this, I think.

[Bill]

(I'm hoping that this isn't turning into an argument... I do enough of that in real life, and I'm trying to keep this civil.)

Richard wrote:
If you want to get pedantic about it, Elric may have seen Stormbringer as female (in a single short story for a single print run)...I'm really not trying to get pedantic about anything. I can't lay my hands on it right now, but I could swear that the last few paragraphs in my copy of Stormbringer referred to the sword as a "she." If I get a chance to dig it out (which could take bloody forever... I'm continually amazed at just how many paperbacks I have) I'll double-check.

As far as class definition: I go with the classic "wizards toss fireballs" version. All Elric seems to do is chat with demons and elementals. It doesn't come across as "true" magic, just a few words to the right ears at the wrong times.

But...

Moorcock penned the Hawkwind song about Elric, called 'The Wizard Blew His Horn,' so I'll go with the author in this, I think.

...so I should probably defer to the author as well.

I still hold that Bayaz is better. I never saw Elric level a city with just magic, like Bayaz did in Last Argument of Kings.

[Heather]

Bumbledore!

[Rachael]

Dumbledore!

[Olivia]

Roberto wrote: "I think Severus Snape is the best"
Of course u do.

[Kelli]

Gandalf is the best in my opinion.

[Katherine]

Ganddalf

[Barbara]

I vote for Harry Dresden. As runner up for his potential, Tom Ward gets a high mark (from The Last Apprentice).

[CD]

Dumbledore died.
Gandalf retired.
Dresden got cancelled.

Harry Potter is the great wizard. After all, he lived.

The best run race must first be finished.

[Richard]

Bill wrote: "(I'm hoping that this isn't turning into an argument... I do enough of that in real life, and I'm trying to keep this civil.)...

Apologies for my tone, Bill, but you may appreciate that I see phrased answers like yours quite often, and react a little strongly sometimes.

You have a point worthy of discussion - what makes a wizard? The thing I find is, we would have to drop quite a few favourites from here if we get strict about it. Gandalf was some kind of angel, which to my mind immediately disqualifies him. If it does not, then that opens the door for other Angelic 'wizards,' and in that I would include Lucifer. Look at Gaiman's (later, Mike Carey's) version - he wouldn't even blink in destroying Gandalf.
So does that even let us include Merlin? The earliest accounts have him as a man driven mad, but later legends have him as half-demon.

Actually, the greatest wizard of all time is Ponder Stibbons - the template for Harry Potter :)

[Mike]

Tim the Enchanter is up there. Ni!!
But for my money I'll go with Thulsa Doom from Conan (not the movie) straight up evil sorcerer.
But Merlin is still the OW original wizard & all you Tolkienite/Potter a-holes can suck it.

[Bill]

@Richard: No worries. I did manage to find my copy of Stormbringer, and no mention of gender was made where I thought it was, so I stand duly corrected.

Why discount celestial (or half-celestial) beings? Gandalf even refers to himself as a wizard, so why shouldn't the fans as well?

...and now you have me wanting to get back to reading Discword novels. :P

Mike wrote: "...& all you Tolkienite/Potter a-holes can suck it. "

Why would you go there? Isn't there enough room in fantasy (epic, heroic, urban, dark, etc.) for all kinds of fans? So far the discussion has been civil (if a bit passionate in spots).

[Barbara]

CD wrote: "Dumbledore died.
Gandalf retired.
Dresden got cancelled.

Harry Potter is the great wizard. After all, he lived.

The best run race must first be finished."

Dresden the tv show got cancelled. Not Dresden the wizard. In fact, he sort of died and then came back. His race is still running, 13-plus novels and short stories later. I'm not sure that just surviving is what makes for greatness, but think the adventures of Harry Dresden and friends is great reading.

[Mike]

Bill wrote: "@Richard: No worries. I did manage to find my copy of Stormbringer, and no mention of gender was made where I thought it was, so I stand duly corrected.

Why discount celestial (or half-celestial) ..."

Jokes People...Jokes. I never really bag on peoples reading material. But people tend to Deify Tolkien for some reason. & the new generation loves them some Potter. I'm just glad there are some people still reading out there. Dresden is my new hotness. But Merlin IS the original. Oh yeah & most people don't realize that Robert E. Howard the creator of Conan & Thulsa Doom died before "the Hobbit was published.

[Richard]

Bill wrote: "

Why discount celestial (or half-celestial) beings? Gandalf even refers to himself as a wizard, so why shouldn't the fans as well?..."

In that case, Lucifer wins hands down. I am fairly sure he never calls himself a wizard, but he does all the big wizardy things. He takes down angels, demons and Titans... and takes over God's throne for a while, too.

[Richard]

Mike wrote: "Bill wrote: "But people tend to Deify Tolkien for some reason. & the new generation loves them some Potter..."

Indeed, my posts on here started as a reaction to that. I wonder what the percentage of people who have put Dumbledore have actually read any fantasy other than Harry Potter?

Even in the Potter universe, he's clearly not the best. If he could have beaten Voldemort, he would have gone and kicked his arse, and not got children to fight the battles. And there's Harry himself, so by my reckoning, that puts him at most number 3...

[CD]

Barbara wrote: "CD wrote: "Dumbledore died.
Gandalf retired.
Dresden got cancelled.

Harry Potter is the great wizard. After all, he lived.

The best run race must first be finished."

Dresden the tv show got can..."

It was a partially 'silly' answer but now that I think it about it more I stand by Harry Potter, leaving Dresden aside for the moment.

Direct comparison of the two 'universes' between Dumbledore and Gandalf is at best an apples and oranges exercise. That being a given, the entire premise of the Potter series is about this 'kid' who nearly brought about the end of the great scourge of his time as babe in arms. Of course that magic belonged to his mother. Yet it started him down the path the wound up with him accomplishing what no other wizard was capable of doing. It doesn't matter in the Potter story line how much luck, happenstance, opportunism, etc. was involved. Olivander put it in so many words, 'do great things, terrible, but great things' and Harry Potter overcame it all. Dumbledore and his final strategy to protect the Elder Wand failed and Harry Potter had to figure that out and use to his advantage that device. Then he willingly gave it up.

Gandalf did powerful magic, but he didn't defeat a dragon that we know anything about directly. His conquering the Balrog is his one greatest single 'feat' as recorded in the tales of the whole story arc, not "The Hobbit". Gandalf was a 'wise' wizard, his knowledge was his greatest tool, and it let him down at times as did his judgement. His was an epic quest that he was 'built' for and came to the universe to serve. Then he went to the Havens, retired, and there was no more wizarding left . . . Fascinating and central character but pales in comparison on some levels to many others in the Lord of the Rings universe.

The reason I injected Harry Dresden into my answer is that many other posters immediately skipped the original question to vote for their favorite wizard without any commentary on the original question. Dresden is a 'greatly' entertaining series of stories. But Dresden as great?

Dresden strikes me as a diploma mill/correspondence course doer of magic. The lack of success of translation of Dresden to another medium partially illustrates the widely held perception that readers of the Butcher stories hold. There is a lack of unanimity even amongst the faithful as to how Dresden should be viewed, let alone portrayed. I rather enjoyed the series. It being cancelled though did fit in with the 'skeezy' character, not one of greatness, that Dresden seems to represent.

There are other wizards worth discussing perhaps, but then a longer topic as to what is a wizard and can you compare different magical realms at all?

[Sharon]

Brandon wrote: "Tim the Enchanter, duh!

(Bahaha, nah I agree about Gandalf)"

Brandon wrote: "Tim the Enchanter, duh!

(Bahaha, nah I agree about Gandalf)"

LOVE Tim the Enchanter! lol

[Mike]

The Grey Mouser!!! Any Leiber fans out there? I'm kind of an old school guy. Anybody got some more obscure Wizards out there? Sorry not a Potter fan guys. I really hope this generation goes back & reads the classics of Sword & Sorcery. I'm always looking for new "old" stuff to read. Thomas Covenant, Thoth-amon, Polgara, Pug, Sparhawk, Belgarath, Belgarion, Darken Raul, Zediccus Zu'l Zorrander, Fistandantilius, Rastilin, Lord Soth & MerlinGandalf SuperterminatorWizards both. Let's dig deep people! I need reading material!!! I dig ol' Harlequin from the Shadowrun RPG novels too.

[Mike]

CD wrote: "Barbara wrote: "CD wrote: "Dumbledore died.
Gandalf retired.
Dresden got cancelled.

Harry Potter is the great wizard. After all, he lived.

The best run race must first be finished."

Dresden the..."
I love Dresden but lets not mention that atrocity of a T.V. Show. & they really killed "The Sword of Truth" on WGN not that Goodkind needed much killing. He pretty much cut his own throat w/ the ending to his series. Have you tried Butchers "Codex Alera" Tavi might just be a wizard himself.

[CD]

Mike wrote: "CD wrote: "Barbara wrote: "CD wrote: "Dumbledore died.
Gandalf retired.
Dresden got cancelled.

Harry Potter is the great wizard. After all, he lived.

The best run race must first be finished."
..."

Did you read my response to Barbara?

I like Dresden, but I have issues (spelled out mostly in the response) that for me leave Dresden out of consideration for this topic.

I'd add one thing, my current vote for great wizard isn't probably going to hold up 'for all time'. This, if a competition, is an evolving topic.

A lot of readers don't get into Goodkind for a vast array or reasons, myself included. In fact I don't even list them as 'read' or at all here on Goodreads. Just not my favorites either.

I've seen and browsed through a couple of the "Codex Alera" series. They didn't strike me as all that fun or enjoyable to read. This is another series that seems to have great fans and those who just aren't enthused. Kind of like Harry D. But thanks for the suggestion!

[Richard]

Mike wrote: "The Grey Mouser!!! Any Leiber fans out there?... Let's dig deep people! I need reading material!!!..."

I was indifferent to Leiber's 'Sword' series, but like his SF better. As I mentioned further up, I rate Acahmian from Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. It takes him a while, but when he gets going...

And nobody has so far mentioned Oberon from Zelazny's Amber series.

[Robert]

First Wizard Baraccus from TSoT series, No contest.

[Mark]

Catweazle played by Geoffrey Bayldon in the 1970,s British television series.

[Richard]

I see your Catweazle, Mark, and raise you a Mr Leakey (JBS Haldane).

I still know electricity as Electric-trickery :)

[Brad]

I'd have to add a vote for Quick Ben. Honestly, what other mortal wizard makes a hobby out of destroying gods?

I guess Raistlin does, but I think Quick Ben would have the leg up on him.

[April]

I second Quick Ben! How could I not? You got to love his quirks.

Well, really any other sorcerer in the Malazan series would demolish any other competition. I would also put in a vote for Anomander Rake, just for being incredibly amazing! ;)

[Bill]

I'm still not sure who we're counting as wizards or not, so I'll just go on with business as usual.

There are still a lot of votes for Merlin. The problems with that are a.) he got taken down by his... er... libido and b.) which version are you putting forth, since there are several out there (Sir Thomas Mallory's, T. H. White's, A. A. Attanasio's, etc., etc., etc...). He pops up so often, he's become less of a wizard and more of a brand.

Harry Potter? He's all right, but unfortunately he spent so much time going through the storms of puberty over the course of the novels that I just couldn't fully like him. Dumbledore irritated me with the whole "enigmatic wise old man" act to the point that I wanted to Avadra Kadavra him.

Oberon from Amber is problematic: yes, he used serious mojo in setting out the Pattern, but he wasn't a huge presence in the Chronicles of Amber, simply because he spent most of them either dead or "dead." For sheer talent and personality from that universe, I have to nominate Corwin's son Merlin (there's that name again...:-P).

I have to read more of the Dresden Files novels. I forgot where I left off, but what I did read was pretty good. I can't really get behind him as the greatest at the moment, but that might change as I progress back through.

I'm also going to throw in Soulcatcher in Glen Cook's Black Company, just because she's powerful, insane, and nearly impossible to kill (at least, up to where I have read she is).

[Jon]

I've enjoyed reading a lot of the comments. Maybe I evened learned something doing it. What a great question. For me, it comes down to Merlin and Gandalf. I don't know if I could choose one over the other, they're both timeless. Okay, I'm going to be bold and say Merlin wins. Sorry Gandalf.

[Holli]

Definitely Harry Dresden. He kicks butt and he's funny.

[Richard]

Bill wrote: "I'm still not sure who we're counting as wizards or not, so I'll just go on with business as usual..."

Indeed :)
When I thought of Oberon, I did think Merlin too, but the whole Pattern Creation thing is pretty big hoodoo, but I take your point he is not really in any of the stories.

Soulcatcher - haha. Yes, good choice.

Harry Dresden seems to spend far too much time having his own butt kicked, and only surviving by chance and various deus ex machina artifices, although I haven't read much. I like him, but he's not 'best.'

Dumbledore pretends he is a kindly father, but his actions are those of expediency, using (and sometimes sacrificing) children supposedly under his care for the war (which is a cold one for the first few books) he is engaged in. He befriends Harry not because he likes him for his personality, but because he is a weapon, and must be controlled in the right way.

But if you are to believe what he says, Hugo Rune - the 'Greatest Man Who Ever Lived,' would also be the greatest wizard ;-)

[Cherie]

Merlin.

[Bill]

I almost forgot another couple of crazy-powerful and bad-ass wizards: the heads of the Day and Night Watches in Sergei Lukyanenko'sNight Watch novels. Gesar and Zabulon may stand at opposite ends of the struggle between Light and Dark, but their manipulations are amazing. It's a shame Anton (the protagonist for most of the books) starts off so wishy-washy and bland at the beginning, because he really takes off right around The Last Watch.

I'll still stick with Bayaz, First of the Magi for Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy. While most of the mages put forth in this discussion labor under some form of constraint (such as the Treaty in the Night Watch novels), Bayaz basically tosses most of his aside and excercises whatever level of power he deems necessary to get the job done. As he himself states in Last Argument of Kings:

"Power makes all things right. That is my first law, and my last. That is the only law that I acknowledge."

It makes him a villain in many reader's eyes... but aren't the villains always more interesting than the heroes anyway? They're certainly much more honest about their intentions.

[Patti]

I'd have to say Merlin or Harry Dresden.

[Heather]

Pug, from the Riftwar Saga by Raymond Feist. I read this years ago, but love how he is developed from a nameless boy into an man who manipulates the worlds he set foot upon.

[Scott]

Has anyone mentioned Elminster of Shadowdale?

[[deleted user]]

Poor old Schmendrick from the Last Unicorn? My preference would be Ged, as he was a bit of a philosopher, he had a sense of humour and herded goats. Gandalf was pretty good, but beaten by the Witch King of Angmar.