Who Is The Best Wizard Of All Time?

[Yefim]

Anything that cannot be replicated by David Copperfield?

[Hazel]

Yefim wrote: "
And the greatest Wizard of all time??

If you say any wizard other than Merlin, you are too yo..."
Believe me, Merlin is not all that well known outside the English-speaking world. Since I am not..."

apart from Merlin, who Gandalf was a poor imitation of... ;P

I'm going with the one played by Mako in Conan, I don't think he ever gives his name, but he raises Conan from the dead, so he can't be half bad.

[Yefim]

Hazel wrote: apart from Merlin, who Gandalf was a poor imitation of... ;P

I don't seem to recall that Gandalf was the prophesied Antichrist and a half-demon who was wrenched from Satan's power by his priest and future master. Or that he was a shapeshifter, taking on many human and animal forms, the form of an ugly old dwarf (from which the modern image of Merlin as an old man stems) being just one of them. Or that he died when he fell in love with a woman, taught her his spells, and she trapped him in a cave forever.

Gandalf, by contrast, was described by Tolkien as an "Odinic wanderer" and an "angel incarnate." His image, like everything else in Tolkien's work, comes from the fusion of Christian and Norse mythologies.

So, no, Gandalf is not based on Merlin at all. In fact, if you think so, you are actually projecting Gandalf's image back in time onto Merlin, assigning him "wizardly" traits that have actually originated with Gandalf (or, rather, with Odin on whom he is based on). Thus, it is Merlin who is a poor imitation of Gandalf, not the other way around.

[Hazel]

what I meant was that merlin was first, and that the long white bearded wizard image was established with him...

[Yefim]

Hazel wrote: "what I meant was that merlin was first, and that the long white bearded wizard image was established with him..."

As I've pointed out, Merlin was never a "long white bearded wizard." He was a bearded old dwarf, but he was also a large bearlike man, a beautiful boy, a white stag, etc. There is no reason to identify his old persona with the traditional wizardly image, unless every wizard is an "old man with a long beard, short and hunchbacked, in an old torn woolen coat, who carries a club and drives a multitude of beasts before him."

[Hazel]

depends which book you read really. Once and Future King has him as a bearded old man, and in the Merlin Trilogy by Mary Stewart, he gets old and bearded.

Neither Mallory nor Chretienne DeTroyes describe him all that much, they describe him as nothing more than "Merlin the Magician".

So you're probably right, the image came later, from other ideas. I stand corrected about him being described as a bearded old man, in anything but more recent literature... but most of what you described was him appearing as other things than his real appearance, his real appearance is never really described, from what my other half, the merlin buff is now telling me... you'd probably get on really well, as he's corrected me to be in line with what you've said :P

[Yefim]

Yes, and Mary Stewart was writing well after LotR, and even Disney's cartoon was out. So, like I said, the "wizardly" old Merlin was inspired by Gandalf (who was always a bearded old man, as the image was inspired by this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia...). Not the other way around.

[Hazel]

Well, thanks :) Its nice to be corrected when you're wrong :) Really appreciate it :)

[Yefim]

Of course, if you REALLY want to track down the origin of the archetype, you need to look no further than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Geo...

Odin is the original wizard. :)

The original Merlin is largely based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrddin_..., a Welsh seer who lived decades after the Arthurian times. He is one of many people in history who has been ascribed magical powers. For example, in my own tradition there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vseslav_... who became the basis for the shape-shifting Bogatyr Volga Sviatoslavovich. If you examine the two closely, there are many similarities in the powers they demonstrate (although the early Merlin was a prophet and a seer first and foremost).

[Hazel]

Yeah, Odin wins. I suspect we have a mythology buff on our hands with you :p

[Brandon]

it just seemed you inplied it was put there not that it just happens to relate, so I commented, have a nice day :)

[Brandon]

and I still say Elminster owns all. Not cause he was first but because he is a B/A

[L.J.]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned him yet, but my favourite wizard is Ingold Inglorian. Tough as nails and still down to earth. From Barbara Hambly's Time of the Dark series.

[Astraea]

Ogion the Silent and the old Archmage, both in
A Wizard of Earthsea.

Gabriel

[Astraea]

"Though Tolkien hated allegory, so.... "

Yeah, but he could have seen the death or going-elsewhere and resurrection/return of Gandalf as more of a theme than an allegory. Or look at it this way. Gandalf is a Maia, they don't really die. So how close can he come to having a fight to the death with that thing without actually dying? He says he defeated it, not killed it, so it's not really dead either. Uh oh.

Gabriel

[Scfaulkner]

Hugo Artemis Solon Saturnicus Reginald Arthur Rune

[Will]

Nice, I didn't know that, but that actually further supports the allegory, as Jesus technically didn't die either, being a God and all, and when he fought Satan, he only conquered him, he didn't destroy or kill.

[Mikaela]

Harry Potter!!!

[Kate]

The Balrogs were originally Maiar just like Olórin (Gandalf) - specifically spirits of fire - and were seduced into evil by Melkor even before the making of Arda. Their physical forms could be destroyed (all but Durin's Bane "perished" in the First Age; some at the hands of elves) and this is arguably what happens to both Maiar in Moria... Gandalf is sent back to complete his task - perhaps the Balrog is cast into the void like Morgoth before him?

[Bradley]

Jaye wrote: "Gandalf Rocks! In my opinion, he is better than Dumbledore, Merlin, Tim the Enchanter, Voldemort –everyone! Am I wrong? Who is your favorite?"

You're right :)

[Emmy]

Gandalf for sure, with Merlin in second and Tim the Enchanter third. I LOVE Gandalf!

[Emmy]

Thomas wrote: "chuck norris!!!"

I would try and protest that Chuck Norris is NOT a wizard, but I don't want to get roundhouse kicked into the sun :P

[Scott]

Here's my list, assuming "wizard" refers to males only, and that gods are overqualified but all other conjurers, summoners, and channelers are okay:

1. Gandalf
2. Merlin
3. Belgarath (David Eddings)
4. Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander (Terry Goodkind)
5. Darth Vader
6. Rand al'Thor (Robert Jordan)
7. Ged (Ursula K. Le Guin)
8. Yoda
9. Dumbledore
10. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Honorable Mentions: Dallben, Gwydion, Harry Potter, Howl, Prospero, Raistlin, Richard Rahl, Rincewind, Saruman, Voldemort (plus some I'm forgetting or unaware of)

Criteria: power + mystery + characterization + real-world influence

[Micaela]

Wait when did Darth Vader, Yoda, and Obi-Wan Kenobie become wizards.

[Will]

Nice list, Scott.

[Will]

Micaela wrote: "Wait when did Darth Vader, Yoda, and Obi-Wan Kenobie become wizards."

They are Jedi who channel a power called the Force; essentially wizards.

[Hazel]

http://www.humorsharing.com/harry-pot...

[Alex C]

If Darth Vader was such a good wizard then why would a random subordinate openly mock his powers right in front of his face?
It seems pretty lame to classify sword-fighters as wizards, I'd say out of all of the Star Wars characters that the Emperor would be the best wizard.

Anyways I have to mention Macros the Black, Pug/Milamber, Nakor and Miranda.

If I were to go sci-fi I'd say Neo from the Matrix, and Paul Atreides/mb Leto II

[Brandon]

I still say elminster could take all on your list scott, with exception of Gandalf and RAnd, but he still might even with those.

[B0nnie]

Ged, from Earthsea. If there need be wizards in the real world, he would be the one with the most power and the least to fear. That said, I really love all the other usual suspects: Gandalf, Dumbledore...Snape.

[Brad]

For those who said Gandalf I need to say that I prefer my wizards to actually do magic. Gandalf spends the bulk of his time talking, wielding Glamdring and riding Shadowfax. I love him, but the magic we actually see him performing is negligible (Peter Jackson's apocryphal gunk aside).

So I am with Bonnie. Ged. He is the most powerful, the most in control, the most responsible, my favourite -- bar none.

[Gas 'n Mask]

The Greatest wizard of all time in my humble opinion would be the great wizard Fumblemore and his brother Swampy Bogebeard. Reply if you watch the Yogscast, chaps.

[Kirsty]

Yes, Gandalf and Dumbledore, I love both!

[Ryan]

Michael Jordan!

[Adria]

I would have to go with Richard Rahl. If you read ALL the books you will understand why.

[Adria]

Scott wrote: "Here's my list, assuming "wizard" refers to males only, and that gods are overqualified but all other conjurers, summoners, and channelers are okay:

1. Gandalf
2. Merlin
3. Belgarath (David Edding..."

How is Zed higher than Richard? He himself even admits Richard way bypasses him. Ok I know its fiction but you know what I mean lol

[Roberta]

The Wizard of Oz, of course! lol

[Kayla]

Oh come on who's better than Tim the Enchanter?!;) But it's between Gandalf and Dumbledore for me...

[Ann]

My vote's split evenly between Merlin, Gandalf and Jed. Good thread, though. I need to read the Dragonlance Chronicles.

[Kate]

Has anyone here ever read any Deverry Cycle books (by Katherine Kerr)? They don't seem to be being discussed anywhere, and I feel bad that Nevyn only has my vote at the minute - and it's only for the silver medal, at that!

[Terra]

I believe Gandolf was the best wizard of all time. There is just no matching his abilities and insight.

[Scott]

Adria,

My list is admittedly biased in favor of the wise-old-man demographic. Richard beats Zedd in power, but Zedd beats him in knowledge and experience, and his personality is more "wizardy."

[B.evil]

Kvothe the kingkiller should be added to the list from the name of the wind. He is an archanist but still same difference.

[Ron]

The wizards in my stories--which you don't know about yet--are the best wizards! :)

[joshua]

bitches please, dumbledore cant even respawn.

[Veljko]

I was going to say Gandalf... but then I had a doubt. Is Tom Bombadil a wizard?

[Hazel]

I'm still saying Richard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH...

[[deleted user]]

Grisamentum, Kraken

[John]

Merlin is the standard. Gandalf is the man and Dumbledore is for kids.

[Hazel]

Jc wrote: "Grisamentum, Kraken"

good call