Questions, Resources and General Banter - Proust ISOLT Vol 2

[Jim]

This thread is for asking questions, listing resources and links, and general banter for the Proust, In Search Of Lost Time Volume 2 read. Discussion will begin on January 16th and run for ten weeks through March 25th.

Within a Budding Grove - CK Scott Moncrieff translation
In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower - Penguin, James Grieve translation

This read is a continuation from the "Classics and the Western Canon" group read of Swann's Way, November and December, 2011. All Brain Pain members are encouraged to join in. If you haven't read Vol. 1, Swann's Way, we encourage you to pick up a copy before reading Vol. 2. This is not a "requirement" but we recommend it because it's such a great book!

If you are curious about translations and which version to choose, the thread marked "Proust in English translation" should help you decide.

Also, if you’ve written a review of the book, please post a link to share with the group.

[Andreea]

Racine's Phèdre plays and important part in the first section and I think it would be a good idea if people who haven't read it yet give it a try because it's an absolutely extraordinary play and you will most likely love it. Reading it is not really necessary to understanding the plot, but one of its main themes is love as sickness - which is also one of the main themes of In Search of Lost Time so the two texts enrich each other quite a bit.

If you're just curious about the speech that the Narrator keeps reciting to himself which starts with "On dit qu'un prompt depart vous eloigne de nous -", it's Act II Scene V, Phedre speaking:

In French:
(view spoiler)[On dit qu'un prompt départ vous éloigne de nous,
Seigneur. A vos douleurs je viens joindre mes larmes.
Je vous viens pour un fils expliquer mes alarmes.
Mon fils n'a plus de père, et le jour n'est pas loin
Qui de ma mort encor doit le rendre témoin.
Déjà mille ennemis attaquent son enfance ;
Vous seul pouvez contre eux embrasser sa défense.
Mais un secret remords agite mes esprits.
Je crains d'avoir fermé votre oreille à ses cris.
Je tremble que sur lui votre juste colère
Ne poursuive bientôt une odieuse mère. (hide spoiler)]

Or the Project Gutenberg English translation:
(view spoiler)[I hear
You leave us, and in haste. I come to add
My tears to your distress, and for a son
Plead my alarm. No more has he a father,
And at no distant day my son must witness
My death. Already do a thousand foes
Threaten his youth. You only can defend him
But in my secret heart remorse awakes,
And fear lest I have shut your ears against
His cries. I tremble lest your righteous anger
Visit on him ere long the hatred earn'd
By me, his mother. (hide spoiler)]

You can read the whole Project Gutenberg translation here, but the translation is not that great, I'll look for a better online translation.

[Jim]

Andreea wrote: "Racine's Phèdre plays and important part in the first section and I think it would be a good idea if people who haven't read it yet give it a try because it's an absolutely extraordinary play and y..."

Good links! Love as sickness - certainly applies to poor Swann in Love!

[Bill]

O no, Andreea, I don't know I can do another book at the moment, I'm reading three or four with deadlines. :-) That translation, by the way, is inelegant.

Okay, you win, You're very convincing. I ordered it. Two different translations. :-)

[Jim]

An interesting overview of re-reading ISOLT with a number of links to supporting materials.

http://www.mcelhearn.com/2011/10/23/t...

[Sue]

I did listen to Vol 1. on audio and now I am on Vol. 2 on audio. Although it is very expensive, I do find that I can bite off big books easier if I just live the book for hours at a time instead of little bits here and there when I have time to sit and read. Im glad to hear someone else has enjoyed the audio version as well. But after Vol. 2 I am on my own as there is no English Vol. 3 *sigh*

[Jim]

Sue wrote: "I did listen to Vol 1. on audio and now I am on Vol. 2 on audio. Although it is very expensive, I do find that I can bite off big books easier if I just live the book for hours at a time instead of..."

You asked about explanations in the discussion thread. Here's a good overview book written in plain English.

Marcel Proust's Search for Lost Time: A Reader's Guide to the Remembrance of Things Past

Alexander includes synopses of each volume of ISOLT. A handy reference which I've referred to many times.

[Sue]

Oh thank you so much !! Like I said before the Spark notes really helped me with Vol. 1
I do get lost in the long long sentences :)

I just went and ordered Patrick Alexander's Guide and hope that helps.

[Jim]

Sue wrote: "Oh thank you so much !! Like I said before the Spark notes really helped me with Vol. 1
I do get lost in the long long sentences :)..."

He does run on a bit, no?

Sometimes I let his sentences wash over me. There is a repetition and a complex rhythm which doesn't always require a close reading... blasphemy, right? I've been looking for the big picture and themes, and slow down when the details seem important.

[Sue]

Yes the sentences just seem to go on forever and I wonder when the narrator takes time to breathe. I do find the book very soothingand it feels like soft warm waves washing over me and then my ears perk up when he makes a point here and there. I will be sad to not be able to listen to anymore volumes as I could never do abridged ! Why didnt I study French when my Canadain school forced it on me all through elementary school? haha

[Andreea]

Sue wrote: "I did listen to Vol 1. on audio and now I am on Vol. 2 on audio. Although it is very expensive, I do find that I can bite off big books easier if I just live the book for hours at a time instead of..."

I often listen to the Kindle automatic read out loud thing/option when I'm cooking, washing up or knitting/sowing, it doesn't feel like much, but it does add 20-30 pages to your weekly count. Marcel Proust Revisited also has lengthy plot summaries (the one for the first part of Within A Budding Grove has about 5 pages) and it's sometimes useful to consult that (I read the summary of the first volume before starting the second just to remind myself of what's happening). I could send you the scans of the section from Marcel Proust Revisited, I have them saved on my computer for future reference.

[Sue]

Oh that would be great Andreea! I really dislike the kindle voice LOL I am sure I dont know how you can stand it but we do what we can do to get a book read.

I love audio because as I am doing normal life chores or working out or bike riding walking whatever I can choose to listen to a book :) I rarely turn the TV on .

my email is s.schumac@gmail.com Thanks!

[Lily]

Sue wrote: "...I will be sad to not be able to listen to anymore volumes as I could never do abridged ! Why didn't I study French when my Canadian school forced it on me all through elementary school? ..."

Sue -- normally I despise abridged recordings. However, I am finding listening to the Naxos abridgement of ISOLT as better than having no recording. ISOLT is one of the few books to which I find myself relistening several times. I really enjoy the sound of it.

You may have noticed from one of the links Jim gave us that apparently an unabridged French recording is available.

[Lily]

Some of you may remember the tapestry of Esther in the church at Combray from Swann's Way . In looking for an example of such a tapestry today, I came across this interesting article:

http://www.consulfrance-newyork.org/T...

(view spoiler)[The Triomphe de Mardochée, which has adorned the Grand Salon of France’s Consulate General in New York since 1954, was produced by the Manufacture Royale des Gobelins. Dating back to 1752, this tapestry is part of a seven-panel set, L’histoire d’Esther, which was woven between 1738 and 1797 to decorate royal and princely apartments or to offer as diplomatic gifts. The series to which the Triomphe de Mardochée belongs was created for the bedchamber of Madame Adélaïde, Louis XV’s fourth daughter, in Versailles.

Owned by the Crown itself, Les Gobelins was—along with Aubusson, Beauvais and La Savonnerie—a jewel among European tapestry manufacturers, rivaled only by a few Flemish workshops. It took the manufactory’s weavers more than two years to complete the Triomphe de Mardochée, which measures more than 30 square yards and incorporates wool and silk threads. Most of the panels from L’histoire d’Esther now belong to public collections. The only two complete series still on display are located in Windsor, England, and Florence, Italy.

The cartoons used for the series were painted by Jean-François de Troy, then director of the Académie de France in Rome. Famed for his historical and mythological scenes, he placed the Triomphe de Mardochée in an architectural setting directly inspired by Rome and represented its characters in the Turkish style that was very much in vogue at the time. The original cartoon is displayed in the Louvre, while a second sketch of this work is at New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art.

It may seem surprising that the subject of a royal commission was a passage from the Hebrew Bible. It was an evocative topic, however, particularly given that the first set of hangings was commissioned to decorate the apartments of the first Dauphine, Marie-Thérèse de Bourbon, the Spanish Infanta. Like Esther, the Infanta lived far from her country and would become queen. Furthermore, Esther was often represented during that period of Christian iconography as a prefiguration of Mary. Saint-Louis depicted no fewer than 121 scenes of the life of Esther in the stained glass windows of La Saint Chapelle, where the coat of arms of France alternated with those of Castile, in honor of his mother, Blanche.

Although Jewish iconography did not typically include human representations, the story of Esther and the triumph of Mordecai in particular are richly and abundantly portrayed, from the extraordinary frescos in the Dura-Europos synagogue in Syria to ritual objects such as Purim platters and Megillah illustrations.

The Consulate’s tapestry celebrates Mordecai’s victory over the Grand Vizier Haman, who had planned to exterminate the Jews of Persia. The holiday of Purim commemorates this episode, in which Mordecai is arrayed in royal robes and escorted through the streets of Susa by his archenemy at the express demand of the king. During Purim it is therefore customary for Jews to don costumes and imbibe a bit more than usual, making it sometimes hard to tell whether they are booing Haman or honoring Mordecai. “For Mordecai the Jew was […] great among the Jews and in favor with his many kinsmen, one who sought the good of his people and one who spoke for the welfare of his whole nation” (Esther 10-3).

Olivier-Antoine Reÿnès
Deputy Consul
September 2010 (hide spoiler)]

[Lily]

Tangential to ISOLT, I understand, but some may enjoy the mosaics related to Queen Esther here.

http://mosaicartnow.blogspot.com/