Dead, The

[Silver]

For discussing "The Dead" by James Joyce

Online text:

http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/engl...

[☯Emily]

After reading the story, these film clips might be interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1CP5L...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6FGIa...

[Zulfiya]

It is a sad but brilliant story. I am going to re-read it again (it will be my third round, I believe), but it is worth it.

[Linda2]

As is the film, Huston's last. Anjelica is a remarkable actress too.

[Linda2]

Why do I always feel a disconnect between the the party and Gabriel's epiphany in the bedroom? I feel like that scene can stand by itself as a short story.

[Silver]

Rochelle wrote: "Why do I always feel a disconnect between the the party and Gabriel's epiphany in the bedroom? I feel like that scene can stand by itself as a short story."

I think the disconnection comes from the fact that the moment of epiphany is a much more private and individual experience and feeling, and the setting of a bedroom itself is much more intimate than that of the party. The party itself does seem to give a feeling of isolation between the characters and it feels very shallow and lacking in genuine interactions between the characters, and so the moment of the epiphany is a much more genuine, truthful emotion, the sort of feeling which I think people generally try to mask perhaps even from themselves and not reveal to the outside world. It had a depth to it that was lacking in the party scene.

[Linda2]

Hmm...interesting.

I have to say this is the first piece by Joyce I've ever understood. Previously I knew only his stream-of-consciousness novels, and I've steered clear of him for many years.

[Lily]

I had to check that "The Dead" is indeed in Dubliners . I actually listened to this only a few weeks ago, but I am going to have to reread in order to comment here. Dubliners is one of those books I sorta read years ago and finally got around to revisiting. Its overall impact was one of bleak profundity. "The Dead" is its concluding story.

[Silver]

Rochelle wrote: "Hmm...interesting.

I have to say this is the first piece by Joyce I've ever understood. Previously I knew only his stream-of-consciousness novels, and I've steered clear of him for many years."

Portrait of an Artist of as a Young Man was the first thing I have read by Joyce, and I have to admit it did not endear me to him. But Dubliners I acutally really enjoyed on the whole, I also do think his poetry is quite good. I recently picked up a copy of Ulysses but I have to admit I am trepidations about reading it.

[Thomas J.]

Frank O'Connor wrote something about this short story that I think the script for the movie picked up on, perhaps independently: Freddie Mallins is actually the strongest character in it and should have been allowed to develop more fully. Otherwise, as is implied by the comments already made, the party itself kind of stands alone or separate from the revelation Gabriel experiences in the bedroom with his wife. But, of course, that scene does reinforce the recurrent theme Joyce was so intent on putting across about the dead controlling our present.

[Linda2]

Silver wrote: "Portrait of an Artist of as a Young Man was the first thing I have read by Joyce, and I have to admit it did not endear me to him. But Dubliners I acutally really enjoyed on the whole, I also do think his poetry is quite good. I recently picked up a copy of Ulysses but I have to admit I am trepidations about reading it."

We had to read, or rather crawl through, Ulysses and Portrait in college, and I've had no desire to touch them since. Dubliners might be a revelation to me. Are there any recommendations for other stories in it?

[☯Emily]

Rochelle wrote: "We had to read, or rather crawl through, Ulysses and Portrait in college, and I've had no desire to touch them since. Dubliners might be a revelation to me. Are there any recommendations for other stories in it..."

I enjoyed "Eveline," "The Boarding House," and "A Mother."

[Silver]

Rochelle wrote: "Silver wrote: "Portrait of an Artist of as a Young Man was the first thing I have read by Joyce, and I have to admit it did not endear me to him. But Dubliners I acutally really enjoyed on the whol..."

I can feel your pain, I actually had to read Portrait twice. Because I read it once just on my own, and than in one of my courses it was required and it was not recent enough since I read it that I could get by. And the 2nd time around made me like it even less if possible.

As for Dubliners my favorites were "Araby" and "Eveline"

But I found all the stories in the collection enjoyable.

[Zulfiya]

Silver wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Silver wrote: "Portrait of an Artist of as a Young Man was the first thing I have read by Joyce, and I have to admit it did not endear me to him. But Dubliners I acutally really en..."
My personal favorite in the
is a Painful Case, but the Dead is quite approachable if you know the historical background of the story - Ireland was a personal pain and equally pride of James Joyce. This duality is also reflected in the story in the short dispute/intense conversation between Mrs. Ivors and Gabriel Convoy. Gabriel is a misfit with the epiphany - he is totally disconnected from the real world, and he is arrogant and well-read, a true intellectual. On the other hand, he can not relate to simple, down-to-earth people, and he knows that the only way to exonerate his uncouth questions is to give money. He also sees the world in two colors - black and white, or in the story, dead and alive.
The repetitiveness and cyclic nature of the society he lives in represent the soulless dead existence, though physically and medically every member of this circle is alive.
I also think that snow is an extremely important motif - it is a certain sign of equation between the dead and the living people; it shows that the two worlds merge and sometimes coexist in the minds of people like Gretta. During her evening confession she admits several time that she can easily envision Michael and his eyes as if he is alive and near her. All the hoopla of the party is forgotten as soon as the world is wrapped into the epiphanic blanket of snow.

[Melissa]

I thought the whole story flowed really well. The party scene gives hints to Gabriel's way of thinking. But I did read an eerie undertone in the party scene which fades around the time Gabriel watches his wife on the stairs. The emotional roller coaster that follows is an amazing path to the epiphany. My reading of the epiphany was greatly influenced by the preceding emotions, creating a beautiful and powerful ending.

I'd only read the first three stories in Dubliners with every intention to read the rest. The Dead seems like a fitting final piece if I recall the tone of the first three stories correctly.

I read Ulysses last year (or I guess now, the year before last) and I really enjoyed it. For a book seemingly "about nothing", it was an intense reading.