A Clash of Kings
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Just finished the book. Have a few question (contains spoilers obviously)
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1. Tyrion had no experience at all in battle really. Tyrion is the kind of person that isn't going to give up without a fight, and when his life is on the line, you can guarantee he's going to give it everything he's got. Besides, through most of the battle, he was getting lucky more than anything.2. To keep the enemy out? I'm a bit confused by this question.
3. Reek setting Winterfell to flame was taking it. Again, a bit confused by what you're wanting to know.
Arya didn't arrive to Winterfell because they were taken by Lannister rogues.
Thanks for your answers, i will try to explain better the remaining two questions.2. Hadn't the entire Stannis fleet crossed the twin towers when the chain was raised? Davos even says that it didn't matter that the chain splitted the fleet in two since the ships could unload their soldiers in land before the towers.
3. I mean take it as Theon took it. Occupy it. He just torched it, killed everyone and fled. Don't know what's the point in that.
2. Maybe to keep them from retreating when the wildfire was detonated? It has been a while since I read the book, so hopefully someone else can answer this better for you.3. I really don't remember his exact reasons, but I think it's because he just didn't care. He sees Winterfell as a dump, basically, and has no desire to rule over it. I'm sure it's Deadfort that he looks forward to ruling after his father as his rightful place. Winterfell has held the Kings of the North in the past, and I think the Bolton's have always been covetous of this, so in destroying Winterfell, he's asserting his pride? I dunno. On the other hand, Theon grew up in Winterfell, so he just wanted to prove himself to his father and his people, but he knew the people there and actually cared about them, he wasn't going to destroy them.
That makes sense, thanks for your answers. :)
1. Everyone struggles to stay alive during battle. Tyrion knew that he was basically the only thing keeping King's Landing from falling, because his sister and Joffrey and the rest of the leaders sure weren't doing anything. Adrenaline and his life and city on the line helped him in battle.
2. The chain wasn't raised to keep the rest of Stannis's fleet out; most of the fleet had already passed through and the chain kept them in. That way, they had no escape from the wildfire.
3. I guess Reek/Ramsay knew he didn't have the men needed to hold Winterfell, so unlike Theon, he abandoned the futile cause and burned the castle.
Hope that helps :)
2. The chain wasn't raised to keep the rest of Stannis's fleet out; most of the fleet had already passed through and the chain kept them in. That way, they had no escape from the wildfire.
3. I guess Reek/Ramsay knew he didn't have the men needed to hold Winterfell, so unlike Theon, he abandoned the futile cause and burned the castle.
Hope that helps :)
The explanation of the chain helps me out a lot. I was confused as to what exactly it was. As in, an actual chain?
Yes, a giant actual chain. :)
Gina wrote: "The explanation of the chain helps me out a lot. I was confused as to what exactly it was. As in, an actual chain?"
Yep! :) I believe it's called a "boom chain." They were pretty commonly used to stretch across the mouth of a harbor/port to protect it, like they do in the book.
Yep! :) I believe it's called a "boom chain." They were pretty commonly used to stretch across the mouth of a harbor/port to protect it, like they do in the book.
I guess I can picture it now. So, the chain would stop and tear apart the boats? I imagine that would be effective, b/c while reading I kept thinking what the heck is a chain gonna do?!
I was confused about the chain too. But I think it was to set the whole river on fire and burned Stannis' fleet with the fire.
What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to them and create a flaming shipwreck barricade.I even pictured that Stannis troops were using this barricade to cross the river, Tyrion even says that "we made them a bloody bridge". can someone confirm this?
that "ghost" of Renly sure confuses me.
^If you read the next book, you'll understand. :)
Good! I'm about 1/3 of the way through the 3rd book...
Can you imagine how HBO will recreate this in season 2?
I'm sure it will be totaly awesome!
HBO has been promoting a "behind-the-scenes" look at Season 2. It looks great!! I really hope it does well and we get several seasons out of this series.
Gina wrote: "Good! I'm about 1/3 of the way through the 3rd book..."Haha! They talk about it around the 3/4 mark.
Torie wrote: "Gina wrote: "Good! I'm about 1/3 of the way through the 3rd book..."Haha! They talk about it around the 3/4 mark."
Maybe I need to read a little faster then. :)
Gina wrote: "Good! I'm about 1/3 of the way through the 3rd book..."You'll find out soon...Heehee!
Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to them and create a flaming shipwreck barricade.I ..."
Yeah, I definitely remember this happening. It's on this same bridge that Ser Mandon Moore tries to kill Tyrion.
Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to them and create a flaming shipwreck barricade.I ..."
The shipwreck along the chain is different from the "bridge" you're mentionning. When the wildfire started, some ships got smashed into one another which created some of kind of a passage on the river between the two banks. It's on this "brige" that Tyrion fought to try to keep Stanis' army from crossing. And then, down river, the rest of the fleet crashes against the chain, trapping every ship and sailor. It is described by Davos as being "the mouth of Hell" or something like that. It's a pure mess and totally aflame, it cannot be used as a bridge.
Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to them and create a flaming shipwre..."Thanks Morgane for the aclaration. :)
Santiago wrote: "Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to them and create a..."Have you started reading SoS yet ? I loved it.
Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flaming shipwreck to ..."SoS was soooo good. My favorite.
Ruby wrote: "Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "Morgane wrote: "Santiago wrote: "What I understand is that the chain was raised between the towers once the wildfire was detonated. The current would drag the flami..."Upsetting in such a delicious way :)
Santiago wrote: "Finished reading the book today but there are some things I don't quite understand:Sorry for my english in advance. It's not my native tongue.
1. At which point did Tyrion became such a fierce w..."
I'm a little late to this party and I think what you've asked has been addressed, but I want to offer my two cents anyway.
1. Admittedly, Tyrion's performance in the battle was a little inexplicable. However, it seems pretty clear that it this was a contrivance, done for the sake of advancing the plot rather than being realistic.
2. The chain was to keep Stannis' fleet trapped in Blackwater Bay. Tyrion knew that Stannis' ships outnumbered theirs and that many of his troops would be sailing up the river to strike at the city from the River Gate. He planned on striking them with Wildfire once they sailed close to the city, and the chain was intended to prevent them from escaping so the fire would spread.
3. Reek, or Theon, didn't put Winterfell to the torch. That was Ramsay Bolton, the bastard son of Roose Bolton. But I take your meaning, and the best answer I could fathom was that he saw the Starks and their seat of power as a threat that had to be wiped away if he was going to take control of the North. He was vying for this as soon as his father rode south to join the War of Five Kings, and he knew he could blame its destruction on Theon.
Answering this without reading all the replies so it has probably already been said, but the chain was used so that the fleet could not escape back out to see. It trapped them.
Mathew, Reek was Ramsay Bolton in that book. Theon (from what I have gathered in the first 200 pages of Dance with Dragons) has been named Reek after his time in the dungeon. Also, I saw above someone say that you would understand the "ghost" of Renly in the next book. I don't remember what it was it has been so long. Can someone explain?
Chris wrote: "Mathew, Reek was Ramsay Bolton in that book. Theon (from what I have gathered in the first 200 pages of Dance with Dragons) has been named Reek after his time in the dungeon. Maybe you shouldn't mention things from book 5 in a thread about book 2, without at least a spoiler warning. :)
**SPOILER FOR RENLY'S GHOST**
I don't remember when they explain it exactly, but it's very clear that there is no ghost or other supernatural event at play, it's just loras who put on the renly's armor to unite the troops (baratheon, tyrell and lannister) and scare stannis' army.
Ok yes, I knew that. I thought I had missed something.Btw, Matthew mentioned Theon was Reek.
Chris wrote: "Ok yes, I knew that. I thought I had missed something.Btw, Matthew mentioned Theon was Reek."
True, you're right, he did mention it before, sorry. I guess yours was more specific and caught my attention more.
Chris wrote: "Mathew, Reek was Ramsay Bolton in that book. Theon (from what I have gathered in the first 200 pages of Dance with Dragons) has been named Reek after his time in the dungeon. Also, I saw above s..."
Ah yes, he was impersonating Reek in book II. Rather, the first Reek, who was his servant that he ended up impersonating so he could evade capture by Ser Rodrik Cassel. I forgot about that little tidbit.
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Sorry for my english in advance. It's not my native tongue.
1. At which point did Tyrion became such a fierce warrior? Not so much a book ago he struggled to remain alive in battle. Now, he is a bloodthirsty warrior? Im assuming he didn't had much combat training as a boy due his condition and i never saw him with much dexterity to push a fight through a sinking ship bridge. What are your thought of him on battle?
2. What was the point of the chain? As I interpreted the battle the ships were fighting upstream so when the wildfire detonated, the chain was raised to create a dam of flaming shipwreck. But what was the point of this dam?
3. Why did Reek put Winterfell to flame instead of taking it?
This is all, on a sidenote I can't believe Arya didn't arrived to Winterfell. It didn't seem such a long trip when men of the Night's Watch made it.