The Anubis Gates - Would modern knowledge make you rich?

[Jonathan]

Doyle thinks that it will at the end of chapter 2. This is something of a cliché, but one that works. Think of Hitchiker where Arthur Dent imagines his knowledge will save him, only to be reduced to operating a sandwich stall.

At least we can all read and write, which really was worth something in the olden days, but probably not in latin or greek, which were high status educational languages.

Do you have any mechanical skills to earn your fortune? What would you do?

[Jon]

As a woman, probably not much beyond having babies and running a household.

I could easily teach or tutor though.

[Kevin]

This is a deep issue handled in many books. I read one called saucer.

I UFO is discovered in the Sahara desert.

Over the course of the story it is discovered it has a human colony vessel.

In order to colonize with a light speed limit it is accepted you must bring everything you need.

It takes 100's of millions of people to support a true technological society not even considering the infrastructure.

Colonist come here as early Agragairians and hunter gathers.

How many of use could make a plow, or a simple compound spear. much less design a cotton gin.

If we knew we were going back and prepared for years we might be able to trigger an industrial revolution. But even then we would not likely become rich from the advances. At best we would become a Leonardo da Vinci and have the support and sponsorship of a strong king.

[Jonathan]

That book sounds interesting, who is it by?

'A Deepness in the Sky' which is not time travel, includes basic civilisation uplift receipes, which seems to consist of only guns and radios in the scenario given, but it describes how radios take all sorts of obscure metallurgy and the resources of at least hundreds of people.

So, you would need to take huge amounts of money back with you, or be hugely persuasive, and being a foreigner carrying large amounts of money has its own problems.

[Jim]

A lot depends on the level of civilization you find yourself in, but I'll bet a modern day person with even a few mechanical skills would make a bigger difference than most would think. A lot of simple, low-tech things that we take for granted made huge differences, if they reached enough of the right ears.

The horse collar was one of the things that lifted us out of the Dark Ages. It meant a horse could do a LOT more work than it could with just traces. Saddles & stirrups made another huge difference. The lack of stirrups or proper padding for the horse's back slowed transportation down for ages.

The circular saw, simple as that seems, sped up the ability to cut wood tremendously. It took a while to catch on - the British were using it in the 1790s in their shipping industry, about 25 years before the Shakers introduced it in the US. Once here, it revolutionized the lumber industry. Before that, it was basically pit sawing, even if they ganged them together & drove them mechanically via a waterwheel, it was still much slower, less accurate & less efficient.

The printing press, silk screening & assembly line techniques all brought huge efficiencies to various markets. Kiln drying, genetics, bacteriology were more massive steps forward. Canning made a HUGE difference, allowing a steady, portable food supply. Glass blowing had been around for thousands of years, but no one knew how to store food through canning.

I don't think a modern person would have to be a genius. Just being able to describe some of these things to the proper people would make a huge difference, if not in their lifetime, then for future generations.

[Jonathan]

You have put a lot of thought into this! Things like the horse collar or the circular saw would never have occurred to me. If only we could recommend posts here.

Now you have me thinking about other impacts... Actually I wonder if someone from the future might have their biggest impact in the area of health. We are very aware of the importance of hygiene in disease transmission, and of how a simple salt solution can prevent lots of child mortality. These are simple ideas that don't take any technology at all, 'only' changes in behaviour.

[Jim]

Jonathan, I guess I have thought about it a fair amount, but it's because I grew up on a farm, own one now & like to work with my hands. I was raised with horses - my mother used to drive a team that pulled logs out of the woods, we've always ridden (have 4 now) & had a pony cart around. I've mostly lived in rural areas where a storm could mean days without electric, running water or refrigeration. We always had home canned vegetables, fruits & such.

I also have a passing interest in history. I started watching Roy Underhill on the PBS show, The Woodwright's Workshop & read his books, along with Eric Sloane, both of whom write easily digestible books about Colonial America. I've been to Colonial Williamsburg & the local Shaker Village, Pleasant Hill, too.

When you grow up like that & see how things work, it's not much of a stretch to start thinking about how it used to be done & feel sorry for those who did it without your benefits. While I like to watch Roy use all his hand tools, I generally use power tools for the tougher jobs. It makes me count my blessings, often!

I also just finished reading Alvin Toffler book, Future Shock, where I may well have cribbed a lot of the information I shared. While Toffler is mostly concerned with 1970 +/- 30 years, he compares it out a fair amount. A wild read.

[Kristjan]

As Jim indicated, it really does depends upon what technology is already there. I understand the concepts behind a lot of different things, but would need to play around with how to actually manufacture them (e.g. create the tools, widgets and machines needed).

Perhaps the easiest would be developing DC electric generators/motors along with batteries and perhaps light bulbs as I have some actual experience along those lines. After that, a telegraph/phone would be fairly easy to do as well.

[Jim]

Jonathan, I think you're right about the area of health being one of the biggest impacts. The entire idea of bacteriology & hygiene is one that would save many people. I've heard that child birth infections were one of the top killers of women - also urinary tract infections.

Canning isn't possible without understanding about the existence bacteria. People put stuff in jars, salted things, but never seemed to quite grasp why some things were preserved & others weren't. They just knew what worked & didn't.

Pin makers got paid more money because they died younger - I read 29 in one book, when the average was closer to 40. It was the abrasive grit that got in their lungs.

I don't think the biggest problem is how much a person from the future could offer to the past, but whether they'd survive it. Look at how well Pasteur was received. Any of us might make a huge difference - if we didn't get lynched first!

Kristjan, you might be burned at the stake for consorting with demons for making a telegraph.

A funny book that addresses this issue is the second of the Deathworld Trilogy by Harry Harrison. The hero, Jason, gets stranded on a world that man inhabited, but it degenerated. There are clans which each hold on to a specific type of knowledge, but won't share their 'secrets' with the others. One clan makes petroleum products, another cars, another has electric, another does chemistry, etc... Jason lands with the lowest bunch, hunter gatherers, & works his way to a position of power in the world. His journey is fast paced & fun. Mostly fun, but there is some food for thought along the way.

[Kevin]

Saucer and Saucer the conquest by stephen coonts

[Kevin]

The problem is most people would not know how to make these things.

I wouldnt know a horse collar from a dog collar.

A circular saw is a great thing but how do you biuld a motor to run it.

You are correct that a knowlegable person could make a diffence. As I said even trigger a revolution but how much would they be able to benefit personally.

Our technology is so second nature to us that I don't believe the average person could discribe the working of a ball point pen much less manufacture one. and that is the simplest of our machines.

I the right place at the right time they ideas they bring back might be used. But we are more limited by our life style than most people beleive.

[Kevin]

HOWEVER, if you look at the history of health care the idea of a bacteria was laughed at. A simple and obvious as it is to us getting people to follow the advice would almost require them to undergo a religious transformation.

even among scientist the ideas of micro biology and bacteria or virus were scoffed at.

and building a microscope is not an easy task.

Cultural inertia would be hard to overcome. In the right environment you might actually be burned as a witch.
I read a book long ago about a man designing treatments for syphilis. To find an effective treatment that did not kill the patient took almost 10 years and thousands of tests before the first human trial could be conducted. This was with a group of scientist and personal wealth allowing him to finance it.
Unless you brought back the entire infrastructure to produce the medicines that could be used by the periods doctors and find a way to convince them that it was not miracles but science ( a rather recent concept) I don’t think you would have more than a very local limited impact. Perhaps a life as a revered physician in a primitive world or a witch doctor.

[Jim]

Kevinalbee, good point on bacteriology, that's why I mentioned the problems Pasteur had. Wasn't he almost excommunicated?

I think you're looking too high tech for changes. There's a lot of little things we take for granted that would make a huge difference in people's lives & I don't think the modern person would have to be terribly conversant with some of our technology to have a huge impact - if they mentioned the right things to the right people. Big IF. I agree with the difficulties of cultural inertia - "It was good enough for grandpa...".

Tell an open-minded sawyer & blacksmith about a circular saw & I'll bet they'd pick up on it quick. They know a pit saw only cuts in one direction & their biggest inefficiencies are reversing the blade & stopping the feed while the saw resets. Putting all the teeth into a circular motion is a huge step forward. It would take some money & time, but not a lot for a small demo. Powering it off the same mill as a gang of vertical saws is easy enough. They'd know everything except the part about putting the teeth on a circular blade - that's all you'd have to mention.

You wouldn't need to bring back a pharmaceutical company to make a big difference in health. As Jonathan mentioned, just better hygiene & salt water would make a big difference. No, you won't save everyone, you might not even convince them about the existence of bacteria, but I'll bet you'd save quite a few.

As for immediate benefits, that would all depend on how needy & open minded the local Powers-That-Be are. Remember
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Twain did a great job of explaining the situation, up to & including over stepping bounds. If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it.

[Hotspur]

There's a great short story on this theme by Poul Anderson.. I think it's "The Man before his time" or some such. About a modern (1950's era) American soldier who is somehow transported back to a Viking ship in AD 900. The man makes a big deal about being a wizard from the future who will change the Viking's lives and make them all very rich. Unfortunately, he knows of the concepts of grand things, but does not have the working knowledge to make the wonders he is boasting of. He doesn't have the tools to make the tools he needs to build the modern stuff. Eventually the Vikings find him boring and turn him into a kitchen thrall or something.

H.