Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion
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eReaders vs Dead Trees
Darla wrote: "Lee, I think that it's fantastic that you have eliminated television. Although I watch it, I would not miss it but my husband and sons would! I would just love to not have any of that rubbish in ..."I can understand it for your husband - the one thing I held onto it for for ages was the sports channels. Once I couldn't afford them any more I couldn't see the point. I realised that I'd plonk myself in front of the TV and just see what was on - which is entirely the wrong way around - I was serving it. Thanks to the wonders of iPlayer, I can still watch any new BBC docs, at a time that suits me, and I'm not paying for it!
So, I guess I watch TV, even if I don't have a TV. But probably for no more than a couple of hours in a week. I get bored watching TV in a way that I never do reading. Somehow it's a much more passive experience.
Seems like I may have inadvertently hijacked this thread. Sorry everyone!
It was all worth it to hear Terri confess to Housewives of Beverly Hills. lolThough if anything is a culture study, that show would be.
I used to rent all my favorite TV shows and watch them on my own time with no commercials. Worked great, I was always a season behind but it never mattered to me. The PVR is what finally convinced me, it's cheaper to pay for digital TV than rent everything with rentals at $6 each and I still get to record them and fast forward through the commercials.
Praise the PVR!RE: Housewives of Bev Hills.
It sure is a guilty pleasure, Darla and Dawn. :D They wear such fancy clothes, drive such fancy cars and have such fancy houses. *sigh* And I would like some of their fancy shoes...:(
Lee, don't worry about hijacking anything. I personally think this is all completely relevant to the eReaders/paper books discussion.
Darla mentioned the radio before. There is a perfect example of how one new fangled technology took market share from another but failed to make it obsolete.
This is why I don't think eReaders will ever make paper books obsolete.
When the television was released and all households started to want one I am sure radio stations and radio manufacturers were worried. No doubt those who loved the new technology (tv) said there will come a time when radios don't exist anymore.
But how wrong they were. The radio is still going strong and both mediums survive alongside each other serving different purposes.
This is how I see it will be for paper books and eReaders.
Well said, Terri. I agree completely! By the way, I prefer real books, as well.
Darla wrote: "Well said, Terri. I agree completely! By the way, I prefer real books, as well."Thanks, Darla.
Viva la PAPER BOOKS!!!!
RE: Housewives of Bev Hills.It sure is a guilty pleasure, Darla and Dawn. :D They wear such fancy clothes, drive such fancy cars and have such fancy houses. *sigh* And I would like some of their fancy shoes...:("
Hmmm, never seen the show but I'm with you on the shoes. Love accessories of all kinds.
I like the comparison of TV to radio, though I think digital music compared to records may reflect more what I think is going to happen.
Most everybody will go digital and the crazy bibliophiles will keep the paper books going until they are cool again.
You've got that right too, Dawn! My 17 year old is so fascinated with my old, old records and record player!
I don't know about the record Cd comparison. here's why. Books have been around for a very long time. Stood the test of time, become a part of our lives. Records were a fad that came and went. Part if an evolution.Like the Commodore 64 and binary codes compared to the current computer tech.
I think eReaders will take big market share from paper books, but I truly believe they will both be relevant far into the future.
Of course, these are all only my opinions. That doesn't mean I am right. :)
Yes, the records were around a much shorter time, but Dawn's point (I think) was that, what goes out of fashion usually comes back around again. For that reason, I agree.I am an electronic tech, binary is still around in our modern technology. Did you have a Commodore? We got them in our high school (in ancient times) and I had a heck of a time learning basic computer concepts. It may have had something to do with our teacher, though.
It's cool. I was across Dawn's point and I was chatting about the idea that books will go the way of records. To a state where they actually have to come back into style. I don't think books will go out enough to come back into style. I think they'll function along with eReaders.RE: Binary
I mean the Basic programming that was used for on old school computing in schools and homes.
We never had a Commodore, but they had one in Primary School that we learned on and now they are collectible and I have played on them as an adult too.
My pennysworth:The book industry/music industry comparison is one that's often made by people who are trumpeting the amazing revolution that is eBooks, but I can see some validity in the radio/TV analogy.
I'm a big fan of records, the audio quality is unsurpassed on anything recorded pre-1990 but I haven't even plugged in my turntable in this house. I do still choose to buy CDs rather than MP3s, but that's not because of any ideas about quality, just that I prefer to have something tangible in return for my money. I buy the CD, have the pleasure of looking at the cover art, rip it to my computer, then consign it to a box in the garage safe in the knowledge that I always have a backup when my computer decides to delete it one day (which it does) (plus CDs are often cheaper for some reason).
So, CDs and MP3s serve a similar, interchangeable purpose in my life. Whenever I'm in less developed parts of the world I'm always struck by the fact that if they have anything more than a radio it's usually a cassette player, not a CD player. Cassettes are big business in various parts of Africa and Inner Asia, whereas CDs are hard to find - that technology is simply going to skip those places, so it will never even have to compete with CDs there.
I've had books all my life. I vividly remember by grandmother telling me repeatedly that books were my best friends and that I should treat them as such. They've been around no for 1500-2000 years (sorry I can't be more precise, not my area!) and have been mass produced for 500. In that time they have become a part of the lives of people all over the world. Almost everyone who can read has at least one book, even in the most remote areas you can think of. It's a cheap, simple technology that can be passed down the generations to inspire, instruct, entertain and empower.
I do now own an ereader. I bought this mainly for reading lengthy pdfs and word files, since it's so much kinder on my eyes than staring at a computer screen. I have read novels on it too since I got it though. Ebooks/readers are fantastic for when you're travelling - one small device, weighing no more than a typical paperback (or a mobile 'phone in the case of the latest Sony!) which can hold hundreds, or even thousands of books. When you've finished one, then you can move straight to another without even getting up. What you can't do though, is pass the one you've just read to a friend for them to enjoy.
I love my bookshelves, but I can also understand why people would prefer not to have to find the space for such things.
I also mentioned that I bought the device for reading academic material. It's so much better than a computer screen for this and has removed from life the constant moral debate as to whether or not I print something out to read it, only to immediately throw it in the bin when I'm done (an option for short articles, but not for whole books, I'm sure you'll agree). A book is, however, much easier to flick through and find the relevant bits (as Terri mentioned earlier) despite the eReader's "search" function.
So, to conclude: various music formats have had short shelf-lives and people in the west have become used to them replacing one another fairly rapidly (wax-cylinders, vinyl, cassettes, CD's, MP3's) while people elsewhere in the world simply haven't had them available until very recently. Books have been around a long time and are recognised and treasured throughout the world - the book replaced the scroll a long, long time ago. Additionally though, both books and ebooks have different advantages so I think perhaps the TV/radio analogy is a more useful one.
One more thought - computer formats change rapidly. When I no longer have an MP3 player, I'll still have my CDs, but what will happen to my books when I no longer have an epub reader?
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Man, that turned into something very long - well done and thanks if you managed to stay with it!
Hey I stayed with it, mate And do you know what I found most interesting?That after reading this bit "they have anything more than a radio it's usually a cassette player, not a CD player. Cassettes are big business in various parts of Africa and Inner Asia"it appears as though I might actually be able to make some money off all my old cassettes.
All I have to do is find a seller to flog them off for me. ;) ...someone going to Tanzania or Mongolia for example.
I'm going to be RICH!!!! whoopeeee!!
But in all seriousness....
It makes complete sense that cassettes are the more valid option in these places you mention. CDs would last .5 seconds over there. Heck, we can hardly keep them unscathed here in the land of modernity.
You guys know how I mentioned pop culture and watching tv to stay in touch with everything. Well, I have noticed how prevalent and 'cool' books are in tv shows and movies that are marketed to the younger generations.
The Vampire Diaries for example, a major phenomenon amoung young and old (and yes, damn it, I'll admit it..I watch this series and love it...).
So yeah, The Vampire Diaries. A MAJOR tv series internationally. The two main male vamp characters live in a Mansion where most scenes are shot in their library. A room styled like an old English library with books floor to ceiling. They are always reading books in there too. Or quoting from them.
Being a Bibliophile, I kind of notice this sort of thing and this is one example of many that I see. While books are still present in pop culture their relevance to the younger demographics is very real.
I also learned something else from Lee's post. That I would really like to come and flop on his lounge and go through his CD collection. ;D
Terri wrote: "I also learned something else from Lee's post. That I would really like to come and flop on his lounge and go through his CD collection. ;D"
If ever you make it over here Terri.
I'll not scratch them. :) I am very good at that. I go bonkers when I see people put their fingers on CDs. Arg. Just thinking about it gives me the irrits.I'll get there one day. :)
OMG, I'm surrounded by Luddites ... just because you enjoy history, it doesn't mean that you have to BE it! I jest, I jest >8)
I'm finding ebook readers extremely handy for my technical and/or reference books. It is much easier for me to find the particular bit of technical info or make notes in an ebook than it is with a paper book.
Like Lee, I am also fan of vinyl records. Despite common misconception, vinyl is still alive, well, and actually has been seeing a bit of resurgence in the past few years. I know a number of people who purchase them still. I have DJ friends, for instance, who prefer them despite the prohibitive costs for singles, compared to their digital equivalents. In fact, a few of them own and run a recording company, and they still press and sell records along with digital formats, and it is not because vinyl is a superior format for DJs ... one can actually do more with a CD or an MP3 equipment as far as tools of the trade are concerned.
Of course, I can't carry and listen to my vinyl on the move. Try lugging 50 records for a few minutes, and then there is the size of a record player! An MP3 player is a godsend despite the inferior audio quality of the music it carries.
ib.
Hear, hear Ireney. Over 8200 hundred songs in a 4" x 2" device! 160 books in a 7" x 4" device! Fits quite nicely on a bookshelf. Takes seconds to do the dusting!
Takes seconds to do the dusting!"Exactly! Really, I'm a lazy person ... the last thing I want to do with my time is dusting my books. I'd much rather read them instead!
ib.
I don't dust my books. The dust adds character.
Terri wrote: "I don't dust my books. The dust adds character."Neither do I. Are we slobs?
I have had to send my Tablet PC (the one I got for Xmas) back to the manufacturer as there was a dark shadow in the camera lens.The problem? We all know what happens when you send your laptops, eReaders and Tablets in to get fixed..we lose our stuff off of them.
Those with Kindle and kindle app, A QUESTION IF i MAY??
I had downloaded Salmmbo and J.R. Tomlins book to my kindle app on the tablet. I logged into Amazon and it looks like, when I get my tablet back..or the new one if they replace it...I can simply download those two books from my Amazon library again to my tablet? They aren't gone for good if they are wiped from my Tablet? Is this right?
Terri wrote: "I have had to send my Tablet PC (the one I got for Xmas) back to the manufacturer as there was a dark shadow in the camera lens.The problem? We all know what happens when you send your laptops, e..."
Sorry to hear about that. They should be tracking your purchases, so it should be OK, but if it were me I'd have a backup on your regular computer anyway.
Speaking of eReader software, does anyone else use Calibre? I mainly started to use it because it can strip the DRM and convert Kindle files to regular epub format, so I can get the benefits of cheap books on my ereader. I found out at the weekend though that they also have an add-on which synchronises your books with your GoodReads account.
When I discovered the flaw in the camera lens and took it to the retailer to see to it, it all happened so suddenly.I always had this intention to get out the instruction book and work out how I can download books from Amazon to my Laptop and then transfer to my tablet.
As with all 'I'm gonna get to that one day'...I didn't get to it.
When I get my new one (or my old one back with the lens fixed) I'm going to investigate.
Unfortunately, I did try and backup to usb before taking the thing back, but seems Kindle doesn't allow that. (even with a file manager app on my tablet).
I am fairly certain that Ireney has some knowledge of using Calibre to strip the DRM. I think I recall him saying that at the beginning of this thread. Or maybe it was another.
I looked into Calibre myself when I was trying to work out whether I wanted a kindle or Sony or another brand of eReader for Xmas. In the end, I went with the Tablet instead so I never got to look into Calibre with any intensity.
Terri wrote: "When I discovered the flaw in the camera lens and took it to the retailer to see to it, it all happened so suddenly.I always had this intention to get out the instruction book and work out how I ..."
I've switched to it as my ebook managing software of choice now. I used to use the default Sony one that my reader installs on the computer and thought it was fine, but it used up a lot of memory when it was running for some reason. Calibre doesn't.
Oh, so that is what makes Calibre the best choice?Have you checked The Book Depository for eBook prices by the way? I know we had a conversation about TBD and that you think you know where it is, but I don't think we ever discussed their ebook prices. Are they reasonable?
I can't buy them. They don't send to Android devices.
Cool. Didn't have any luck with searches in Australia though. :(
Did I really read that an author said this! "I mainly started to use it because it can strip the DRM and convert Kindle files to regular epub format, so I can get the benefits of cheap books on my ereader"
Bernie wrote: "Did I really read that an author said this! "I mainly started to use it because it can strip the DRM and convert Kindle files to regular epub format, so I can get the benefits of cheap books on my ..."I mentioned it in the context of fair pricing - ebooks are usually cheaper in kindle format than others. But, since you mention it, I'm not a fan of DRM - if you pay for something, it's yours. And what you're paying for is a copy of an artform - a story, an investigation or a piece of music. Not a book/epub or a cd/mp3. That's basically at the route of the problem the music and film industries have had in the last decade - they've confused the method of delivery with the product. Since ereaders are about ten years behind in terms of general uptake, you'd hope that the publishing industry would learn from their mistakes - but they probably won't.
I should also state that I'm a "Goodreads author" due to writing academic articles - I have never had any fiction published.
Hey LeeHaving no artistic medium of any sort and not Pretending to know how the music or publishing industry works. As I understand, do the publishers or artist not have exclusive rights with an outsource to their music/books. What I mean by this, like Sony has some exclusive rights of music they sell on Itunes. Isn,t this how Kindle works with Amazon I believe. I know what you mean with how Kindle uses Mobi and the other ereaders seem to us Epub. This is the reason I did not purchase a Kindle and went with an ereader that offers external memory. I guess my point is, isn't that the reason the DRM is applied to the different books? I hope this makes sense, Lee, I'm more of a verbal person for discussions.
Bernie wrote: "Hey LeeHaving no artistic medium of any sort and not Pretending to know how the music or publishing industry works. As I understand, do the publishers or artist not have exclusive rights with an o..."
I think the reason DRM is applied is to stop people pirating it. Of course, we all know this doesn't work - the very people who are interested in pirating intellectual property are those most able and willing to bypass DRM. So ultimately, all DRM achieves is making like more difficult for genuine customers - those who have to buy an album twice for example, after they lose their iPod and find that the DRM locked the music to that device.
I have experienced this with Itunes. The other problem I had with DRM was when I purchased Blackberry Playbook. Even with an app, you could not borrow from the library because of DRM.
Terri wrote: "I have had to send my Tablet PC (the one I got for Xmas) back to the manufacturer as there was a dark shadow in the camera lens.The problem? We all know what happens when you send your laptops, e..."
Terri said---I can simply download those two books from my Amazon library again to my tablet? They aren't gone for good if they are wiped from my Tablet? Is this right? ---
Hi Terri,
Thats correct. Amazon keeps all of your purchases on their server. When you get your new pad and log on to Kindle all your stuff should be there. The only exception is where you have archived material. After a time it will just get wiped, but we are talking years rather than months.Just think of your repaired pad as a new one. If you bought a new pad and couldn't access your kindle library you would, rightly, be pretty peeved.
Excellent, James. Thankyou very much for explaining it all for me. Even today (with my tablet - an Acer Iconia still in Acer hospital) I was wondering if they replaced my tablet instead of fixing my existing one, would my eBooks in my library on Amazon only recognize the former tablet (because of cookies).
From what you're saying, I need not worry about this. Which is a relief.
In fact, you can own multiple devices, e-readers, tablets or computers with the Kindle app installed, and you can resume your reading from the spot you last left on any of the devices. Kindle maintains the last read location on their servers and will sync it to any devices you happen to be using ... provided they are connected to the Internet, of course.ib.
That is so silly when people call others Luddite because they don't like eReaders.People who aren't won over by eReaders aren't against new technology. Not that I am against eReaders, it is just that they are not my preferred medium for reading. I am reading my first eBook now and I still can't see the fascination with electronic reading. It just doesn't FEEL like I am reading a book. I feel like I am reading a homework pdf or someone's thesis. There is nothing tangible to the book.
I have the latest technology (that I can afford) around me, so i am not against technology. In fact I have tech in my life that your everyday eReader person doesn't have or want to use.
I thought it was a pretty strange comment too. I didn't agree with the comment on people who use e-readers either. I will always love paper but just cause you don't doesn't mean you're an inferior being which he seems to be implying.
Sometimes I think it is the only thing keen eReaders have in their arsenal when booklovers criticise the devices. But there isn't much sense behind it.
That kind of evangelism kills every debate, whether it's about eReaders or anything else. Once people get personal and you know they're so emotionally invested in their argument that they're not interested in listening to the other side it's best just to walk away. They're preaching rather than discussing. In fact, by making ridiculous comments that can't be founded they're preaching to the converted.I was reading this article last week and thought it was fairly balanced and interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/...
Then it said "Every time society advances, it faces challenges from those people economically and emotionally invested in the past. Undoubtedly stone age flint knappers were less than happy about bronze-age technology disturbing their business model."
Apart from the fact that that analogy doesn't bear any scrutiny at all and simply made me laugh out loud, the author lost my attention because he'd moved into preaching mode. While he was talking about the development of a specific technology it was interesting. The moment he made sweeping statements about the progress of mankind, well, it's not only irrelevant but designed to try and make people adopt a new technology out of guilt; simply because it's new.
There are countless examples of new developments which aren't better than the old, just as there must be some which are in order for culture to change in the way that it does. Sweeping generalisations like the one above leave out so much truth as to look like a lie and make me wonder what the author is trying to hide.
As we've discussed here, books and ebooks will likely live alongside eachother for some time to come. Both have different strengths and are better for some people in some situations than its alternative.
Oh, and there was never any "business model" for flint knapping, no more than there is a business model in your kitchen.
I am trying out a different browser on my tablet. I compiled a long intelligent response to your post, Lee. I wanted to include a link so I go to open a new tab...only it wasn't the tab icon, it was the browser close icon. I lost my entire post.
An enormous freak out tantrum followed.
I try again.
Try and remember everything I said. Compile another long message...go to post, somehow poked the tablet screen in the wrong place. Browser shuts down. I lost my entire post.
An even more enormous freak out tantrum followed.
Closing comment??
Right now? My feelings about new tech? New technology can go %#&%$ *%%&% itself.
Oh, and comparing flint knapping with ebook tech, and commenting about a flint knapping business model is unintelligent and ridiculous drivel.
Ahhh..I feel a little better now.
Hahaha, yeah, now tablets are something that has no role in my life.
:-) They certainly can cause you to pull out your hair (or turn on the other person in the room like a rabid dog).Mind you, while I am writing this I am reading an eBook and monitoring the Bureau of Meteorology radar where there is a massive electrical storm (aka rain bomb) rollong down upon us. So I guess having the tablet does have it's benefits. Despite those times when I want to throw it in a dam.
Hey Roo Seth Lord, does your dawg run out of the room and search another family member when you have a freak, mine does, he knows the King's angry. Silly thing is, I've never youched him in anger.
got an ereader a year ago.felt bad about it for about 2 weeks.i like the fact that i can carry around an entire bookcase without getting a hernia.i have a sony but use Calibre exclusively.Here is a question for readers of history.Where can we find a world atlas that works on ereaders?Im pretty good with geography but i dont have the entire planet memorized,never mind the boudaries of empires of the past.
Darrell wrote: "got an ereader a year ago.felt bad about it for about 2 weeks.i like the fact that i can carry around an entire bookcase without getting a hernia.i have a sony but use Calibre exclusively.Here is a..."I'm a Sony/Calibre user too Darrell. Regards atlases, I think you might struggle to find something truly usable; this goes back to something I mentioned earlier in the thread about ereaders not being as good as physical books for textbooks.
Bernie wrote: "Hey Roo Seth Lord, does your dawg run out of the room and search another family member when you have a freak, mine does, he knows the King's angry. Silly thing is, I've never youched him in anger."hahaha. Yes. His ears go down and he acts like I've kicked him.
(we are talking about my husband aren't we?)
Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction
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Terri, that is funny (your secret) but Lee is right at least you can call it world culture studies! Ha ha!