SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Up For Vote: Should We Use Only Theme Suggestions?
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What I said before, now in a more pertinent thread:I definitely enjoy the theme selections more, too, mainly because I really enjoy the process of sharing and commenting on our nominations and talking about the parameters of the theme (like our discussion about what steampunk is). I think it really adds to the group.
I like the idea of the theme selections. I usually read them instead of the random master selections. I think they have a better flavor about them.
I also enjoy the theme selections more. The master selections usually end up being a book I've read before (because it's a popular one or a classic) and so I'm less inclined to re-read it. I also really enjoy the selection process of both the theme and the suggestions for that theme.
I'd vote for the theme selections as well.
I'd very much prefer having theme selection (if possible). This way I would know what the proposed books are about, and if to read them or not.
I go with theme selections too. We've all had our lists of masterworks for years, or likely we wouldn't be here, and the theme selections always seem to provide more options that I am unfamiliar with or have always wanted to read and never reached. Master list good. Themes better.
I'm adding my 'Aye' to the Themes vote as well. There are many more avenues for discussion when the books are chosen in this manner. 
I'm all for the theme selections, but being that I'm relatively new, as long as it's not the same author every other month or so, I can roll with anything.
I guess I am the odd man out here; I would rather do themes on a limited basis if at all. There are a number of stories that I am interested in ... going with all themes would likely prevent them from even being considered. At least in a straight up vote they have more then one chance of getting voted on and potentially picked, where as a theme would likely give it just 1 chance until that particular theme comes back up in the schedule (given the number of themes, that could be quite awhile).
I am actually against the theme selection being the sole idea given that it so far has been most frequently won by the most famous author and that some of the connections to the thematic limitation are dubious at best. I would prefer that one group of novels be randomly generated so that we can at least get books by other authors who are not in the narrowly drawn up themes.
I think that the big complaint about the random generator was that the most famous author generally won that, too - look at the current poll that Stephen King won, he's head and shoulders above the lesser known authors.
Jeffrey, I think the random selections have tended to be the ones won by the big author or the big classic in the genre. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't call Tim Powers, Jim Butcher, or Cory Doctorow huge names.Also, the only one I would question the thematic connection would be Anubis Gates. That certainly isn't what I think of when I think "steampunk" but I'm only a few pages in so maybe the connection becomes more obvious.
I really appreciate having a choice of two often very different books to choose from (it's rare I'd have time to do both, as much as I'd like to), but Nick's idea would allow for a sci-fi and a fantasy book each month, if I understand correctly, so there'd still be a choice.Brooke has a great point about better-known authors winning out over lesser-known ones, but that happens with the theme-based polls too I think. I'm not sure if it can be avoided.
I would like to see us try the theme-based approach for both genres next year and see how it goes. I think it might allow more chance for books to appear in polls more than once, and so be picked, since they tend to cross themes a lot.
I agree with not being able to avoid author's who are more popular being chosen over less popular author's. I think that is just going to be common, people have heard a name over and over and are curious to test out that author. That is what happens for myself at least. I kinda like how the system is right now myself. I think the random generator can bring up authors (popular or not) whose book we might never have even thought about mentioning. So that is why I like the random generator, and having 1 theme a month.
Another potential problem with going all themes is how do we decide whether or not a given book is really part of that theme; shouldn't we really be using books that are classic examples of such a theme and not just books with a passing connection with the defining elements? Is there even a consensus on how a theme should be defined or how far we can stretch/defend our recommendations? Establishing theme criteria is going to be harder then simply deciding whether or not it is SciFi or Fantasy, and that takes time to do it right (more rounds of voting) ... I would rather we get more experience running themes before we try to transition completely to them. So far the themes have been relatively easy.
Kristjan, part of using themes was to get away from "classic" books and explore books no one has heard of. And I think our discussions that we've already had about what the theme is during nominations have been pretty sufficient. If someone nominates a book that doesn't exactly fit the theme, but everyone is really excited about it and wants to read/discuss it - isn't that the whole reason we're here?
I don't think we need to worry about being too rigid, and just let the discussions and desires of participants guide us.
Maybe we can come up with a process to decide which of the nominations for themes end up on the final poll. Not just to weed out ones that don't fit the theme, but to make voting more useful - the list of options on the December Alternate History theme is huge. And maybe in the interest of keeping the workload light for the mods, we could have a monthly leader to facilitate the process, like our monthly discussion leaders?Just throwing thoughts out there, not sure if they're desireable/workable.
Brooke, I'd like to reduce the size of the nominee lists, too. I just think it will be difficult to come up with enough members to make up a vetting committee, and I don't like the idea of a single member purging the rolls. I'd suggest a limit of one nominee per person per genre per month. (3 "per"s sounds tricky, but would be simple in practice.) This wouldn't guarantee short lists, but might help.
I think themes have their places in certain months, but maybe it'd nice to have a month or two a year without a theme. Maybe we could alternate between a theme month (giving time, possibly to debate the theme, whether authors or works fit into the theme, etc) and having an open month where it's open to nominations. Another idea might be to take the nominees for an award (Hugo, Nebula, World Fantasy, etc.) from a year and open those up to see which one people would like to read. I like to read the Hugo finalists each year and while some authors do get nominated over and over again, there is also a chance that you're going to find something "new" in the mix that might spark some interest.
Just a thought...
A mix of themes and open nominations would be fine with me, too. Let's just get away from the master list.
Michael, your idea about nominees for an award has been suggested as a theme, and I'd love to do that. For some reason, it's so rare that I read any nominees, and I hardly ever recognize the books and/or authors on the lists. It'd be a great chance, for me at least, to find some new books.
We should continue the master list as it seems to me that it contains many really excellent books. having an open nomination is again akin to merely having the same old authors who dominate the genre being nominated. at least with the master list we get people to list books from a large group of authors.I will concede the cory doctorow is not well know but Tim Powers's books are reviewed consistently in major sf publications and Jim Butcher's last few books have been on the New York times bestseller list.
I still like the current system, and there is no reason we cannot have Nick put twenty books on a list and then discuss which 10 or so we should actually vote on.
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If it is approved it will start in February and we will need to pick themes quickly for the upcoming months and then book lists for them. Discuss below whether you like of hate this idea!
Voting will start on November 9th and last two weeks. Here is the link to voting:
http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/32...
Again, it opens for voting on November 9th! So, discuss and defend your side!