Twilight
discussion
How do you compare Twilight to Wuthering heights by Emily Bronte?
I never tried to compare the two books. In all honestly I felt she took more from Romeo and Juliet then from Wuthering Heights. And even if Stephanie Meyer made an exact replica, which this wasn't, of Wuthering Heights so much of mainstream and popular media borrow from classics that it is a wonder we still have original story ideas!
If you would really like to see an example of authors borrowing from popular culture. The Hunger Games is uncannily similar to Battle Royale by Koushun Takami.
A brilliant modernist T.S. Eliot had a theory which is quite profound. He basically thought that if someone read certain texts, etc, they would have a different experience reading. For example, if I read Paradise Lost before I read Frankenstein I would take a whole other set of meanings into that book and percieve it differently. I didn't read Paradise Lost before Frankenstein, so I had a different experience. Based on your experience reading, we all see things differntly. Romeo and Juliet comes to mind for many who have read it.For those who have read Bronte you may see the patterns, although if you have read other texts you tend to bunch them in together. Some say it shadows Austin, or Romeo and Juliet. Etc.
Just a little food for thought...
My opinion is, that, well, don't worry too much about it. I have come to realize (through goodreads) That their are SO many different kinds of Twilight fans, as well as "haters." Most people that are comparing Twilight to Wuthering Heights and other classics are not really educated about the classics. No, I'm not trying to be a "literary snob" (I can't stand literary snobs) Because I am not "educated" in the classics. BUT, that dosen't make me an idiot. Twilight isn't even in the same genre as most classics. So, I for one, have never used such comparisons. It's like comparing a BMW to a Civic. But just because the Civic is not high quality, doesn't mean that it has no worth. But you have to remember that thoes that love Twilight can be very passionate about it. Especially the younger fans. Bella reads Wuthering Heights in school, so a lot of people make that leap. So, I guess I want to say, Forgive them for maybe being mistaken about something that they are passionate for, because you don't agree with them.
I love Twilight and enjoy it for what it is. An enchanting vampire love story.
Catherine in Wuthering Heights WAS a whining, spoiled teenager. She was shallow and superficial, and that's why she married Edgar Linton (the Jacob) rather than Heathcliff (the Edward). This fundamental injustice could only be remedied with her death, and then eventually Heathcliff's - they couldn't be together until they were ghosts. If Bella Swan had died having Jacob's baby and then come back to haunt Charlie as a vampire, then Wuthering Heights and Twilight would be the same story.
Erin wrote: "Catherine in Wuthering Heights WAS a whining, spoiled teenager. She was shallow and superficial, and that's why she married Edgar Linton (the Jacob) rather than Heathcliff (the Edward). This fundam..."Whoa! I had no idea. Now I just might have to read Wuthering Heights! - Well said.
I've read both of Wuthering Heights and Twilight. I honestly didn't see any connection until I read your question. I can see how, roughly, it's the same plotline. However, I would like to point out that at least Catherine in Wuthering Heights had a personality, and she married Edgar Linton because he was nice and yes good-looking.
But ask your self this question would you want to be with someone who was stalker-esque obessed with you like Heathcliff was? Like Edward was in Twilight?
No. You wouldn't. That's not love that's obession. Heathcliff was obessed with Catherine. She chose someone who wasn't a crazy stalker...Wouldn't you?
Catherine and Heathcliff are like hungry, starving wolves ready to rip into each other. They are wild children that want to eat up the world with their passion. Catherine was just as obsessed with Heathcliff as he was with her, but she chose Edgar because of all the comforts that he could provide for her. She didn’t choose Edgar because he “wasn’t a crazy stalker.” Cathy and Heathcliff are like two halves of a whole. To quote the 1939 movie: “Everything he's suffered, I've suffered. The little happiness he's ever known, I've had too. Oh, Ellen, if everything in the world died and Heathcliff remained, life would still be full for me.”Bella and Edward’s relationship was tamer. Take away the Volturi. Take away the werewolves. Take away the danger. They aren’t vicious and wild and burning.
Regardless of my feelings for Twilight, I don’t think Wuthering Heights is a very good comparison. I personally see Twilight as a modernized Romeo and Juliet rather than a modernized Wuthering Heights.
Good point. I still hate how everyone compares classics like Wuthering Heights to Twilight. Any thoughts? [And I mean that when an uber fan is all like Twilight is soooo much better than (insert favorite classic novel here) way].
Annie wrote: "Good point. I still hate how everyone compares classics like Wuthering Heights to Twilight. Any thoughts?"Comparing something is not necessarily putting it on the same scale, I don't think those people mean to say "twilight" is equal to "Wuthering Heights", but that there's a similarity in plot elements.
And had Heathcliff been a High School student and Catherine been haunting the hallways instead of the moors it would have been a lot like "twilight".
Gerd wrote: "Annie wrote: "Good point. I still hate how everyone compares classics like Wuthering Heights to Twilight. Any thoughts?"Comparing something is not necessarily putting it on the same scale, I do..."
Most people who I've come across always say things like Twilight was so much better than Pride & Prejudice. And one time someone told me "Twilight is so much better than Romeo and Juliet."
What I meant was I hate how people say that Twilight was so much better than (insert book here).
Ah, I see.Well, I would be willing to give them that "twilight" is infinitely (<-only a slight exaggeration) more accessible to a modern reader than any of the other named works, but it can hardly be put on a par with them.
I think what struck me most was how similar their type of love was. Intense, absolute, all-consuming (perhaps to the point that it became unhealthy).
I cant see much similarity to compare. Heroine wise a comparison might be made. Cathy on one hand was wicked, stupid, whiny, cowardly,blind and clueless; Bella on the other hand was whiny,stupid, indecisive, disloyal, boneless and a little bit clueless herself. Both stories had thin plot lines. Wuthering heights is a story about how stupid decisions crumbled a generation. Twilight was a better read with paranormal association. To conclude i prefer twilight.
Gerd wrote: "Ah, I see.Well, I would be willing to give them that "twilight" is infinitely (<-only a slight exaggeration) more accessible to a modern reader than any of the other named works, but it can hardl..."
I agree. Most middle school kids don't want to expend the time and energy to wade through a dense book like Wuthering Heights. They can get easy entertainment from a book like Twilight, which they can breeze through in a few days.
A lot of modern books are heavy on action because authors need to get kids' attention. They're competing with internet, TV, cell phones, etc. It's all about instant gratification, and that's what publishers want and encourage--something quick and engaging. Maybe this is not exactly on-topic, but a lot of younger people think Twilight is better simply because it's exciting/easy/addictive or whatever you want to call it. Accessible.
I agree. A lot of kids/teens are being judged on what they read because they are reading things that are not deemed as 'good' reading material and then people get into the debate of saying they are better off not reading at all (which I disagree with completely!). I don't understand how one form of entertainment such as a game or movie are not discuouaged, yet a book is. It's entertainment isn't it?..this is also sorta' on/off topic
I would say there is no comparison at all. Neither me nor Stepheine ever did in the book. She just wrote that Bella likes Wuthering heights which even i like a lot. But i must say there is no comparison at all.
Wao...! Lindiss this is really a good comment. I too think the same. There is no comparison between these two books so we shouldn't compare them.
Ummmm....excuse me but Wuthering Heights is a true classic while Twilight isn't even close to the beautiful and Gothic novel that Wuthering Heights truly is. No teenager I have been friends has ever read WH and besides Bella isn't even real. Why doesn't even matter whether WH and TW are like each other.
I am reading Wuthering Heights at the moment, I get how the love between Catherine and Heathcliff can be compared to that of Edward and Bella. And I see certain other similarities, but I don't find them very significant and therefore I don't really care if it's a ripoff. I enjoyed Twilight. I enjoy Wuthering Heights.
It was for situations like this that the word "homage" comes in handy. Paying tribute to another novel or author is a long-standing tradition in writing.
I hadn't thought about this before. It makes me want to reread Twilight and then Wuthering Heights. I won't contribute much more until I do, though.Anna wrote: "Ummmm....excuse me but Wuthering Heights is a true classic while Twilight isn't even close to the beautiful and Gothic novel that Wuthering Heights truly is. No teenager I have been friends has eve..."
I'm having some difficulty understanding your comment.
I read Wuthering Heights in high school - as did my entire class (at least, I hope they did). I'm sure that many teenagers have also read it. In addition, neither Bella nor Catherine are real. They're all fictional characters.
I read WH as a teenager...
Um, Wuthering Heights is an amazing novel about true love and best friends and denied love and all that good stuff.Heathcliff is NOT a creepy stalker like Edward; he's a very realistic character who morphs throughout the novel and while you love him one moment you hate him the next. No offense but I think that Wuthering Heights is just more developed and simply better then Twilight- it's a book that stays with you (at least me) forever. No comparison. At all.
Anna wrote: "Ummmm....excuse me but Wuthering Heights is a true classic while Twilight isn't even close to the beautiful and Gothic novel that Wuthering Heights truly is. No teenager I have been friends has eve..."I am thirteen and I read Wuthering Heights two years ago, so maybe I'm the first you've heard about? :)
Wuthering Heights has a deeper, more developed plot. I've read both, and, while Twilight isn't as horrid as I thought it was going to be, Wuthering Heights wins between the two.
I guess there is similarity in the obsessiveness of the relationships in Wuthering Heights and Twilight. What I did not like about Twilight was that this destructive type of "love" is glorified and celebrated. However, in Wuthering Heights this obsession eventually destroys not only Catherine and Heathcliff, but the Lintons as well. I agree with others that Catherine was whiny and shallow, as is Bella, and Edward and Heathcliff are obsessed stalkers, but the characters are developed more deeply in Wuthering Heights and there is no sappy happily-ever-after ending. When reading about Heathcliff, you can almost feel his pain and despondancy - even though he's crazy and posessive, you wonder how Cathy could turn away from him. As opposed to Edward and Bella, who I just found annoying with nothing to their characters other than an inability to live without each other. It is interesting for me to compare the two because I would list Wuthering Heights among my top ten favorite novels, while I really do not understand the Twilight craze. If Twilight is a modern Wuthering Heights, it is a dumbed-down, romanticized, immature version with an alternate ending.
Erin wrote: "Catherine in Wuthering Heights WAS a whining, spoiled teenager. She was shallow and superficial, and that's why she married Edgar Linton (the Jacob) rather than Heathcliff (the Edward). This fundam..."Thats a lot of "if-s"
I agree with Emily and Amber: Twilight IS just a modernized version of Romeo and Juliet. The really sad thing is that Stephenie didn't even need to mess with the plot or the characters that much to have it turn out bad.
As for Wuthering Heights, amazing, amazing book, and a true classic.
As for Wuthering Heights, amazing, amazing book, and a true classic.
Diane wrote: "I think what struck me most was how similar their type of love was. Intense, absolute, all-consuming (perhaps to the point that it became unhealthy)."I just now saw this, but I think it's a very good point.
I am currently re-reading Wuthering Heights (twelve years after my first read) after reading the Twilight Series through a second time. Two things come to mind. One Wuthering Heights is frustrating (I find the characters annoying) but a classic. I first read it at 15 and loved the story and all classic romances. Then after reading and watching and rereading the Twilight Series I have noticed the similarities. No you cannot compare the style of writing, and if you are trying you are foolish. WH is a classic gothic novel written in eloquence with meandering, emotion, description, and a love of words. Twilight is a modern novel, full or action and emotion (remember it is meant for teens), but does not compare in eloquence.
However the characters are paradoxical. Bella and Catherine- teenage girls, but different in demeanor. I won't focus on them, because honestly I can't stand Catherine. But when looking at the men, you really see the stories cross lines.
While reading WH to my 2yr old (yes we are odd), I laughed aloud at the comparisons. In Ch 14 of WH, Heathcliff explains his love to Nelly. You could take the text out, put it in modern terms and set it right in the Twilight books as if coming from Edward. Though he is surly and a man of action (like Jacob), his true affections are that of Edward. -"I never would have banished him from her society as long as she desired his. The moment her regard ceased, I would have torn his heart out, and drunk his blood!"- Ok does that not sound like it could be the whole idea behind the twilight books. Definitely helped in the idea area. This is exactly the sentiment and actions in Eclipse.
You can see the comparisons between Edgar and Jacob as well. Edgar nurses Catherine, he gives her everything she asks, he fills the void when Heathcliff is gone. Sound like New Moon?
I think it is funny that two of the WH main characters though not their roles have similar names to the twilight characters: Edward and Bella. Just a funny side note though.
Need more examples of comparison: WH-Chapter 14- You know as well as I do that for every though she spends on Linton, she spends a thousand on me! ...Two words would comprehend my future-death and hell- existence, after losing her would be hell."
Above all remember, two different eras, similar genre, different characters, and as my husband likes to remind me "There is nothing completely new under the sun." Enjoy the reading, and marvel at the comparisons.
Hmmm. I haven't read either in quite some time. I can see similarities with the whole cliched love triangle. But that's about it.WH is a Gothic novel, Twilight is a Romance novel. Can't compare the two, they're two different genres.
WH has elegance, style and substance. Emily is a very talented writer, she knows her way around the English language.
While WH might have a thin plot line, it's very layered and complex. You have to really read between the lines.
It touches on Prejudice, asks how much Circumstance shapes us, class warfare, the brutal nature of Patriarchal society amongst other things. It's not so much examining the relationship of the two characters as it is delving into the dark side of the human psyche. My friend calls it a "very polite train wreck."
The characters might resemble Bella and Eddy, but they're filtered through an unreliable source, so you really have to figure out how much is really just exaggeration.
Cathy sr. Is a spoiled whiny brat, but she's far more independent than Bella (at least to me.) And far more developed.
Twilight on the other hand. Well, I really don't mean to bash it. I really don't. But, it just lacks the eloquence and the talent of Bronte.
Smeyer seems to know little about her craft. At least by judging the book alone.
Yes, it's a fun little bit of escapism and I agree that the vitriol may be a bit much for what is an entertaining read (not for me personally, but I can see why people like it.) It does it's job.
Is it as thought provoking as WH? No. Does Meyer write with eloquence and style? Not so much when you compare her to Bronte.
In fact, even as a teenager her misuse of synonyms and the long words severing her flow made me question just how much she learnt at Uni!
But I don't think every single book needs to be as poignant as Shakespeare or have the technical proficiency of Edgar Allen Poe.
Some are just fun little reads. And that's perfectly fine.
Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention.
Brooke wrote: "Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention."Sorry, I shouldn't have put whiny.
Cathy was independent and head strong, she was her own woman (her only downfall was Heathcliff, but even he couldn't "control" her.)
She was a free spirit and did as she damned well pleased, in spite of her era. I don't like her, but I admire her for her guts.
Somerandom wrote: "Brooke wrote: "Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention."
Sorry, I shouldn't have put whiny.
C..."
So do I.
Sorry, I shouldn't have put whiny.
C..."
So do I.
Somerandom wrote: "Brooke wrote: "Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention."Sorry, I shouldn't have put whiny.
C..."
I don't compare the two. In my opinion Wuthering Heights is a complex Gothic Horror and is well written. If Bella and Edward are supposed to be like Catherine and Heathcliff I don't see it. If they were supposed to be like those characters there would be no happy ending and a lot more physical and mental anguish. Also in reply Somerandom - Cathy (although not exactly likeable) was strong and independent for her time period, pretty much the opposite of Bella.
In a side note, I see more similarities with Romeo & Juliet than with Wuthering Heights.
Brooke wrote: "Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention."How was she not dependent on a guy? She went straight from Heathcliff to Edgar. She couldn't be alone, and she chose the man with more money who could provide her with more comforts in life.
"Cathy (although not exactly likeable) was strong and independent for her time period, pretty much the opposite of Bella.In a side note, I see more similarities with Romeo & Juliet than with Wuthering Heights."
I wholeheartedly agree with you. As stated in my above comment. Cathy was gutsy and strong and Bella is a wimpy whiny spoiled brat with first world problems. I'm sorry if my comment caused confusion.
To Amy, Edgar was a tactical move on Cathy's part. She wanted to raise her and Heathcliff's standing in society and ultimately be with Heathcliff. When Heathcliff ran off, she stayed with Edgar to spite him. She did perhaps love Edgar, but she wanted to keep her lifestyle that she was accustomed to. In those days that meant marrying someone with social standing.
You can't blame the girl for being a product of her times!
I think the similarity between Cathy and Bella is how make their own decisions. They know what they want and they do what they must to get it.
Somerandom wrote: ""Cathy (although not exactly likeable) was strong and independent for her time period, pretty much the opposite of Bella.In a side note, I see more similarities with Romeo & Juliet than with Wuthe..."
You could be right - I haven't read WH for about 8 years, so my memory must be fuzzy.
Stephanie Meyer said thet she wrote Twilight using Pride and Prejudise like a model,New moon using Romeo and Juliete,Eclipse like Wuthering Heights,and Midsummer nigh's dream...I all of there,I don't see anything uncommon.It's just like you are compering Avangers and Star wars (becouse hey,they are both science fiction.Personaly I've read all of those 4 books.
WH are much more complex novel than Twilight.Characters are so much different!And even a plot!
First of all,Bella-Edward-Jacob were Mary/Gary-Sue characters.All perfect,goodie-goodie...Cathy was stubborn and greedy and selfish but strong and indeependend.Bella was useless and clumsy human.Edgar's style and manners are in sharp contrast to Heathcliff's, who instantly dislikes him, and Catherine, who is drawn to him. Catherine marries him instead of Heathcliff because of his higher social status, with disastrous results. He,even becouse he was good and all,was not likeable character...I just don't see anything uncommon with him and Jacob and Cathy and Bella!
Edward was all Gary/Stew.Good and perfect (so much like Heathcliff,right?? -.-).
Lauren wrote: "Somerandom wrote: "Brooke wrote: "Cathy was not whiny. She was selfish, spoiled, and a lot of other stuff, but NOT whiny or dependent on a guy like some others I could mention."Sorry, I shouldn't..."
WH IS romantic just becouse it shows bad and evil people able to love more than ''perfect'' Bella and Edward
K.S. wrote: "Anna wrote: "Ummmm....excuse me but Wuthering Heights is a true classic while Twilight isn't even close to the beautiful and Gothic novel that Wuthering Heights truly is. No teenager I have been f..."YES!
Lindis wrote: "My opinion is, that, well, don't worry too much about it. I have come to realize (through goodreads) That their are SO many different kinds of Twilight fans, as well as "haters." Most people that a..."Couldn't have said it better myself!
Wuthering Heights is rich in language, is deeper and a much better story than Twilight. The characters are powerful, isn't slow paced like the other classics and the love between Heathcliff and Catherine is way more stronger and passionate than that of Edward and Bella.
Well, for Wuthering Heights, I had to resist throwing it across the room because it was so ridiculous.And with Twilight, I actually did throw it across the room because it was so ridiculous.
(Please don't call me a hater, seriously. There are many things I admire about the Twilight Saga and Stephenie Meyer.)
Well,Wuthering Heights and Twilight can't be compared, atleast according to me. Wuthering Heights is a classic whereas Twilight is teen fantasy. :-P
It makes me angry that anyone would even think of comparing Twilight to Wuthering Heights. If you have to compare the Saga to something, try Romeo and Juliet.
Ella wrote: "Honestly I can't stand how Stephanie Meyer basically took wuthering heights and made it about a whinging little teenager.If you think the same, tell me why. If you think otherwise, prove me wrong,..."
Honestly, I think that Wuthering Heights is more about the savagery and inhumanity in humans and the capabilities of a man set on vengeance and nurturing his inbred need to exact revenge when wronged, where Twilight is more so about overcoming the inbred need to seek revenge and to find humanity when humanity is lost. And honestly, some people see Heathcliff and Catherine as a tragic love, I see it as (for lack of a better word) bullshit! Catherine chooses a man who can help her the most (in her time, she needed to make that choice when her choice was between passion and starvation vs. comfort and complacent love.) Heathcliff in return seeks his revenge on her and everyone else who made his life miserable, whereas Edward overcame his desires and decided should she want to go, he would let her his feelings be damned. Heathcliff was immature and selfish, and in literary terms, a monster. Edward is almost like Frankenstein's monster, a monster in physical terms, but the most humane in the literary and emotional sense.
Heathcliff is a sadist and I can't stand him as a character! I would say that Christian Grey is closer to a Heathcliff than Edward Cullen.
Saima wrote: "Wuthering Heights is rich in language, is deeper and a much better story than Twilight. The characters are powerful, isn't slow paced like the other classics and the love between Heathcliff and Cat..."Honestly I have to disagree with you there...
Catherine and Heathcliff have an incredibly unhealthy relationship based from childhood. Which at first glance would be healthy, but let's get real here... They bonded because neither of them had anyone to bond with... Which is fine... but what did Heathcliff do when he overheard Catherine say she was marrying Edgar? He left and returned gentleman-esque to find them married. Then, he kidnaps Edgar's sister, forces her to marry him so that he can stay in close contact with Catherine and abuses the new Mrs. Heathcliff at Wuthering Heights. Then, he visits Catherine in her guilty illness and practically murders her by giving her more to feel guilty about, eventually killing her. Then in her death, he strives to make her daughter miserable and tries to force her and his son together whether they wanted to be together or not, striving to make them BOTH miserable!
Heathcliff and Catherine, I don't think were as passionate as people give them credit for. I think they had a dependent relationship in which they were dependent on each other and when they couldn't have each other, the relationship turned destructive.
Now considering Edward and Bella are quoting Bronte and Shakespeare all of the time, both examples tragedies mind you, I don't think their relationship is very healthy either. "I cannot live without my life, I cannot live without my soul!" Ummm... 'kay?
Just so you know, I LOVE the Twilight saga, but was incredibly disappointed by Wuthering Heights because of the hubub about it brought up because of the connections Twilight made to it. I was disappointed because I began WH expecting a huge romantic love story filled with passionate and lovey ooey gooeyness goodies, and found... what it is... And let me tell you.... what a let down! Don't get me wrong, it's a piece of absolute literary genius same as Romeo and Juliet, but I think it is highly misinterpreted.
Sorry to leave such a long post, I'm just a big fan of a good ole' fashioned debate! :)
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