Chicks On Lit discussion
Non Book Talk
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A Suggestion if you have some time...
Thank you Laura for suggesting this to everyone :)
You're welcome, Holli! You live in a battleground state, so I'm sure either candidate would appreciate your help.
It's a great suggestion! I don't think a lot of people realize how improtant it is to vote! (Even though in the Presidential election it goes by the electoral vote, not the popular which I think is so un-democratic ~ Don't get me started!!!)
I, however, am still struggling with my feelings about both candidates, as overall I don't care for either one, so I don't think I'm the best person to go and push voting for them!
I have already voted with our early voting and I will see what I can do today about signing up for Obama's phone campaign. Its all over our news lately....how Ohio is a battleground state which makes it even more exciting!!
Go Holli Go Holli Go Holli Go . . . Also - even if you do not live in a battleground state, you can make calls to those near you. In my case, being in MD, they want me to call VA. So call I shall! I'm excited, as I've never done this before. Maybe I'll report back and let you all know how it's going. I expect to be cursed at and even hung up on, but it's worth it ;)
I've been volunteering for the Obama campaign and its so rewarding, knowing that you've done something for the country. I will be volunteering again this weekend.
Mod
I am with you on my overall lack of excitement for either of the presidential nominees. I'm just not liking either of them. I would say the true reason to get excited isn't McCain or Obama but more on a state and local level. While the president certainly sets the tone and is important I think the state and local officials that are up for election often have a greater impact on us and individuals within our community. For that reason alone it is good to get out the vote. As you said the president is decided by electoral college (which I totally agree with so we have to agree to disagree on that one ;)) but local and state officials are a direct result of the votes and as such represent us in larger political arenas. So many people, myself included get dismayed with how the presidential election goes but I think if we make changes on local and state levels throughout the country then a real change has a greater chance of survival than what either Obama or McCain are capable of doing.
*stepping off my soapbox*
Entirely true Tera and very well said by the way..........
Well, I've called 25 voters so far and I'm having a great time! I clicked on my 25th voter to say I was done and got a list of 60 more. They are all long-distance (in VA, since I'm in MD and the race is a lot closer there), but I'm going to consider it my donation to the campaign!This is so cool!
I don't even like talking about politics anymore. I did a lot of grassroots stuff when I was in college, but I just feel blah about it right now. But, I thought it out, made up my mind, and voted. And I don't think the guy I voted for has a chance, and I hate the thought of what's going to happen with the other guy, so it just makes me mad.
Laura, are you calling from home or are you at a campaign "office"?
From home, Cyndi, making it very easy and convenient for all of us to participate! Both candidates are allowing this, by the way.
I have been phonebanking fr the Obama campaign and it has been immensely rewarding. And despite the vitriol whipped up at some events by a certain Alaskan governor, I have found that so many of the people whom I speak with, regardless of their affiliation or partisanship, are actually quite ready to discuss both candidates with respect and sometimes admiration. I believe people are tired of tearing down the other side to make points.(That said, while I am an Obama supporter, I have tremendous respect for John McCain. He's right on many policies, and he's also very funny and personable in a small, uncontrolled environment. Had he not picked Sarah Palin as his running mate, I might have been confronted with a tough decision!)
Exactly, I think once he did that, he was out of the running for many people.
Tera - I totally agree with you. I hate politics and don't care for either candidate. I'm horrible because I want to vote for my local issues but at this point I really could care less who becomes the president. If I voted and the person I chose didn't win - I'd just get pissed off about it :) And I don't know that either of them are that great anyway. I can tell you one thing - I'll be so happy when the election is finally over and I don't have to see and hear anymore commercials about it! Some of them are so petty I can't stand it! lol
Laura, thats good to know. When I got the call last week about coming in to do the phone calls again, I asked about doing it from home. At that point, she said that they were only doing it from their office. I will call again. If I can do it from home, I can give them more time, obviously.
Emily~ You wrote my exact thoughts! The statistics and voting record are what scares me the most! Ugh ugh ugh....
I'm with you Brandie....so so so tired of the commercials. I hate that constant barrage of "he does this, well he does that, but he did that too". Irritating!
Doesn't it remind you of two children arguing over who is gonna be in trouble? He did it, no he did! lol!
Yes it does and I just roll my eyes and mute them when they come on ;)
I watched a few minutes of CNN today and really, where are the issues? It is a down to he said/she said petty crap now. Shouldn't they be airing a recap of their stances considering we are down to the wire now? I think people know which way they are voting regardless, but it is just mindless garbage they are showing now. Oh hurry up November!
Cyndi - go on the website, you'll find a link that says Make Calls to the right with a phone and click on that once you create an account. Then you'll be given names, ages, gender, etc. and the short list of questions for you to record.Have fun! I'm having a blast - I've called over 100 names so far and still going strong. I could do this all day and really enjoy it.
Laura, I see it! I think thats what I will do this weekend. Thanks!
I'm not crazy about either candidate but I did go vote early because I feel that it's an important choice we have.
I feel like I am watching the political version of American Idol.
Perhaps had we not been berated an entire 2 years in advance of the primaries I wouldn't be so lackluster about it now, but I am just SO tired of hearing about all this!
Mod
I don't know if Palin would run. Hillary for sure. Ugh.
SOAPBOX talking:ok so on that CALLING THING!!
i am on the national do not call registry and it IRRITATES THE HELL out of me politicians are exempt!!
i work NIGHT SHIFT and when people are making their calls i am asleep!(YES i know i can turn my phone off but i also have kids in school and a husband who does construction and i'm a pessimist so i DO have my phone on-and usually i can just see the phone number and go back to sleep) but i do feel sorry for the poor man who phoned me the other day.. i wasnt very nice!(at 1030 am after 1.5 hrs of sleep. and they JUST DONT GET IT! why ma'am youre asleep? i was asked THAT question at 215pm. as if it was HIS business! he just. did. NOT. get. it. i said i work when YOU sleep!!!
i swear up and down,left and right when i GET those calls i am going to CALL THOSE PEOPLE BACK at 3am when I AM AWAKE!
ok so that said! be sure to block your phone number!! or laura i might be calling you!!!!:)
holli too! it sounds like i could be on one of YOUR lists!
YES i vote YES i am glued to the darn debates AND all the controversy and YES i think its a shame how its come down to she said/he said elementary school playground tactics.
ok..
going back to my pillow now
Mod
You made me giggle.
I just had to mention this.....I have a friend at another book group here (The Next Best Book Club) who is a teen, from Canada. When she heard about my phone calls for my candidate, she decided she MUST do her part to help get him elected.
Can you all believe this? She doesn't even live here, and she feels like it's so important that she MUST do something to help.
I don't care what party you are from. If more Americans felt this way, our country would not be in the mess it's in.
End of speech.
That is so cool Laura. Who is this girl? I want to congratulate her!!!
oh'tis been an interesting weekend!and i want to know this.. why do i get these phone calls when i AM asleep! ?
i wouldnt MIND talking(god knows i excel at this!) with someone but when i'm awakebut THEN the ones i get are a recording.
oh well. i wish more people WOULD vote and i agree with Laura if people did we might be better off country wise.
however.. can someone explain the popular vote vs the 'electoral' votes to me? i didnt understand the mess wiht kerry and bush. and b'c of that i can see why people DONT vote b/c it seems like it doesnt matter anyway. if the candidate HAS the electoral votes who cares what the popular vote is?
(see thats why i WANT a REAL person when they wake me!)
Hey someone explain that one to me!I remember learning about our political electoral system in H.S. and thinking, "Yeah, but if that ever happened now, there would be an uprising and people would overturn the electoral college." Then what happened? Right! Bush's first term.
We are past the horse and buggy times, people, we don't need an electoral college anymore. What the heck???
AND I still say that if John Kerry were better looking, we wouldn't have had Bush 2 either. People care way too much about appearances in this country (the Gov from Alaska is a prime illustration here).
Oh I'm gonna get myself in trouble.
<<<< Jumps off soapbox >>>>
<<<< BUBBLES EVERYWHERE !!! >>>>
Sorry you guys, I just had to vent!
Mod
The first being without it campaigns would stop only in the most populated parts of our country. Primarily the coast. It forces the politicians to be fair and appease the country as a whole rather than the populated cities. It gives the farmer in Ohio importance because without it they would only pander to the city executives.
Even though we are no longer using horses and buggies and have the ability to count every vote that is not how the country was established. We are the united states of america not the united people. It is only at our core at our state level that we are a true democratic society. That is why state elections are so important and we have congressmen and senators. We elect them on a democratic level to go and represent us. Our country as a whole is a representive government. Our local officials are elected to go to DC and represent the needs and best interest of their area. That is why laws are made and passed by them and not by the country as a whole, even though the technology is there. Again, this is done to insure the smaller populated portions of our country have a voice.
If it the president was only elected by popular vote you can be sure they would only campaign in a handful of states. What does that mean to the corn farmer in Iowa or the potato farmer in Idaho or the cattle rancher in Texas. It means their needs are pushed aside for the needs of the votes that matter. Because they now have to fight over each electoral vote they get you see importance put on places like Iowa and Ohio and New Mexico, when certainly it wouldn't be otherwise.
You can look at Canada which does a vote only decision. Their government has grown increasingly liberal as it decided for the most part by the highly populated portions of their country.
While you might say that is only fair because that is where the people are you have to remember that the people living in the big cities often could not function where it not for the jobs of those in the lesser populated portions of our country. There are not enough farms in NY city to feed its populations. They would starve without the farmers or the factory workers of the midwest. Because of this all their voices need to be balanced and heard on as fair of a level as possible. Thus the need for the electoral college it makes those states important in a race where they would otherwise be ignored.
thanks tera for the civics lesson.. do you teach this stuff?you helped me understand it MUCH more than before., however i still dont get it... what happens IF the popular vote is higher than the EC votes?
the ec should go with the popular vote right b'c the congressmen etc were elected by the people to represent the people right? didnt it happen where the popular vote and the EC votes didnt sync? and thats where the problem came in?
am i just being stupid?(seriously-maybe i need to use the word dense?)
Well there is one twist in the electoral votes though, if I am understanding this correctly. Most electoral votes are bounded by the popular votes of their states; however, there are some that are not which throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Am I correct about that Tera?Am I the only one wondering what I am going to do after the election is over? I have been totally consumed by everything, I might have post partum electoral depression.
Mod
Because Gore won more votes but he lost more states. Gore won big populated states like NY and California. That's great but he didn't win the majority of the states thus he didn't win the majority of the electoral college. This is the example I was talking about had Gore won on the fact that he won more votes he would be president but it would have ignored the voice of all the states that he didn't win, the majority of the states.
Now while I think the electoral college is needed I am for tweeking it a bit. Right now states are an all or nothing win. That means if you win the popular vote in Texas you win all of their electoral college votes. But like noted the cities of states tend to vote different than the rest of the state. I would be okay with dividing the electoral college votes up within a state. For example Florida recieves 27 electoral college votes but the panhandle of the state usually votes much different than the tip of the state. I would be all for dividing the states so that the panhandle got some of those votes and the tip got others and the neck of the state others. Dividing votes within the state would be a more fair representation of the voters and would also get the campaigns to visit all parts of the states and acknowledge their needs.
Meg to answer your question there are some states that do not require the elector to vote with the states popular vote. Technically they can swing their vote to whomever they think deserves it although in many of those states there are fines and penalties for doing so. They could lose the ability to cast an electoral vote if they do. Remember in Florida after the count, recount, rerecount there was a push by some democrates to get the electoral college of that state to disregard the vote count and vote for Gore even though it was decided the Bush narrowly won the popular vote of that state. They could have done that. They didn't and it is VERY rare that they ever throw their vote for someone other than the popular vote. Something like 99% of the electoral votes of states have followed their states voting since the beginning. So, while some states they can do that it just isn't something that is done even in the most contested of times.
Okay I'm rambling. No I'm not a teacher just a bit of a news junkie.
I think this election is getting everyone going. They are saying to expect long long lines tomorrow to go vote.
(Message 40 was the last one I saw as I was composing this Loooooooooong post, so sorry if some of this makes less sense....)No Meg, you are definitely not the only one there. Esp. now that I've been volunteering, I'm gonna feel the same way. Particularly if the wrong pair wins. Canada, England ? Who knows where this election might take me!
Are they gonna ask for volunteers to fix our country's messes? If they do, I would def. consider it. We all have skills that could be put to use.
I miss your little cats picture, what gives?
Anyhow...Tera I see your point on this, but the electoral college distribution is setup according to the population in each state, right? (Here is a good link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electora...
So the more populous states have the most electoral votes (i.e. CA - 55, TX - 34, FL - 27, NY - 31, etc.). This goes back to how many Reps. in the House each state has, which is population-based. (Plus 2 for each senator, which is state-based.)
So that is where the politicians are focusing their efforts anyhow - in the heavier populated states w/the most electoral votes. States like Montana, NDak., S.Dak & Wyoming each have 3 electoral votes, making them not as important as the states above.
I don't know where to get the data as to how many trips each candidate has made to states like that, but I can tell you there won't have been many. Less populated, less electoral votes. So they are spending their time in the swing states with big elec. #s, like OH (20), PA (21), FL (27), NC (15). The states with 3, 4, 5 electoral votes probably hardly see Pres. candidates.
So I don't see the difference between this way and the "everyone has one vote" way. The more populated states get the action on the campaign trail because they have more E.V.'s, the others don't.
Back to your msg #39, Mich, what happened in 2000 is Al Gore got 50,999,897 votes and Bush got 50,456,002 votes. Gore had almost 544K more votes, but was not elected because Bush, remember, won Florida's (at the time, 25) electoral votes, giving him 271 EV's (he needed 270).
Personally, since it takes an act of Congress to change this, I predict it will never change. The EV system makes it easier on the politicians to campaign, as they can focus their energies on the states with the most EV's.
Tera - I like your idea re: splitting up the EV's by region if that's the best we can do - as in your FL example (my sister moved several years ago from MD to the FL panhandle).At any rate, I guess my frustration in all of this EV mess is that as a Democrat who typically votes Democratic, my vote here in MD doesn't mean a whole lot. MD usually goes heavily D anyway, so I could stay home every year and it wouldn't matter. I should move to FL or OH or PA so my vote would really count. Which is ridiculous. Hence, my point.
Sigh. I like to believe in the Democratic system (the system, not necessarily the party) but it's so frickin corrupt, it's sickening. The power is really in the Senate & Congress, not with the President. (So why not rename Election Day "Doomsday"?!) We all need to be more active in the State & Local elections, like Tera said. That's where we can at least TRY to make change happen!
NJ just voted last year to have the Electoral Vote count in the election regardless of the Popular vote. (Yes, the States do have a choice!) Sigh again.
Laura,Regarding message 44...
I live in New Mexico (5 electoral college votes) but we are considered a swing state. Split Senate seats & split Congressional representation (2 Rep. & 1 Dem) with a Democratic governor. We have been DELUGED with ads, canvasing, AND the candidates. Both McCain and Obama have been here numerous times. Obama had a huge rally on the Univerity of NM campus about a week ago and McCain was in southern New Mexico just a couple days ago.
Some of the state you mentioned WY, ND, SD, MT don't get much attention, because tend to vote solidly Republican. I suspect a few of the NE states that vote solidly Democratic also didn't get a lot of attention.
Mod
And while I see your point of voting in a state that always votes the same as you thus your vote doesn't matter (on a presidential level) think of the Republican in NY or the Democrat in Utah. While your vote is just another one in the pile for the winner their votes have even less impact because their state is not likely to ever vote the other why. Even more frustrating is living anywhere other than the East or Central time coast. It is terribly disheartening when you still have 3 hours left in your time zone to vote and the election has already been called because the east coast has cast their vote. There is a good argument on how the election would turn out if all voting ended at one time across the country. Many people dont vote in those areas because they see the race as already being decided before they ever even step into a booth and while that sucks for them on a presidential level those same people that stay home because they see the president has already been chosen also stay home for the vote of their local politicians.
That is why I stick to my big push of getting out the vote on a state level. If you want change that is where it begins and ends. People think change starts at the top but there are few cases of true change happening at the top of any country and trickling down. Change begins in the districts and county level and swells to the state and then through the country.
So, while I like the electoral college better than a strict popular vote I would love to see the college split within the state according to districts. In my opinion it is the most fair way while still holding campaigns to address the needs of smaller states.
I hear you, but personally I don't feel like the state fight should be the focus. I think it should be about the people. I understand your argument (and the EC argument as a whole, and I thank you for that) better now, but I still think every vote should have equal footing and the fact of the matter is that now it does not. So that farmer in Ohio has a bigger impact w/his vote than the rancher in Montana, and I think that sucks. I believe that the less populous states get the short stick in the EC, whereas with no EC every vote would count equally. The Montana rancher's vote would count every bit as much as the NY executive. And that's the way it should be.
My belief is that there would be a MUCH higher turnout without the EC. And a higher percentage of voters means more people are participating in the process. Which should mean the country is better off. Because when you feel like you have a stake in the outcome, you become more educated and involved in the process.
I agree with you that we should be active locally, but as a CPA, I see the federal tax policies having a huge impact on my clients year in and year out. For example, many of my clients right now are struggling to send their kids to college.
Right now, there is little help in the federal tax system for them. I am hoping that if Obama's 4K tax credit (a dollar for dollar reduction in tax) goes through, this will help out many of my clients, who are blue collar families. This is twice the highest credit available now. Also, this is a refundable credit, meaning that if the credit reduces a family's tax to zero, the difference will be refunded to them, which will really help the poorest families who need it the most.
College educations are a Win-Win for govts. and individuals, as degrees boost salaries, and thus tax bases. So in the end, every dollar we invest in education comes back to us in the form of tax revenues.
There are many other examples of this, the biggest one being the tax brackets as a whole, but I guess what I'm saying is that in my line of work, I see the impact the Federal system has on us little people maybe more than most.
And, don't forget it's Federal funding that often trickles down to the states, allowing them to fund at the local level projects they could not afford without Federal help.
Mod
I think the only way to give all states a voice is to do it with some form of the EC. Without it smaller states would be ignored entirely for the wants and promises offered to those larger states because the campaign could be won by only winning the coasts. I think that would have a dividing effect on the country where already there is division from the country mouse and the city mouse. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on popular vote vs EC vote.
Names and phone numbers to call are provided on their internet sites, and scripts are there too.
This election could be very close, and I don't know about you, but now that I know my guy needs me, I would feel badly if I did not participate, he lost, and I could have made that crucial difference for him.
So I thought I would let you all know, in case you wanted to get involved as well.
Thanks for reading!