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To me that sounds realistic and plausible. If he's questioning things and she's got a past she wants to "erase" sure. That could happen at any stage or age in life, especially with teens I think. It would be very emotional, and I think that would be the important part, the emotions and what they both learn from the experience.
I would be inclined on her part to get part way and have her want to stop, and maybe he's relieved because he's realized he's not that into it. I think after a date rape, no matter how determined she is to go through with it, if she's not in love and passionate about him it might be too hard for her to go through with it. But it could definitely be a good set-up for both of them.
I like Kaje's idea. I think I was partly coming to that idea myself earlier I just didn't fully realize it enough to put into words. lol.
Damn you, Jo! Now I really want to read this book even more and see what you come up with. You better wait to get this manuscript to me until I'm done with Dolphins in the Mud or it's just going to keep getting pushed back on my roster. ;)(In case anyone hasn't noticed, I <3 VJ.)
I think it can work. You can go w/ what Kaje suggested and have them stop before anything happens. Plus, I think it's believable that gay youths would try to have sex with the opposite sex. (I imagine the biggest reason is to appear straight.)
This is my initial reaction. The problem I would have would be how will the girl who was date raped feel to know that sex with her is what makes her friend realize he's gay. Wouldn't that make her feel even more insecure and wouldn't that make V.J. feel guilty? Would he really test himself with a girl who's a little fragile?
I agree with Kaje too... I suspect that actually having sex again after date rape, is not easy to do and would take a lot of talking through/other types of intimacy before actually being able to have sex.From the gay man perspective, a LOT of questioning youth will try and develop a relationship with the opposite sex and, from conversations I've had, will try sex. So that side is quite realistic.
Great plot bunny!!
Yvonne wrote: "This is my initial reaction. The problem I would have would be how will the girl who was date raped feel to know that sex with her is what makes her friend realize he's gay. Wouldn't that make her..."He doesn't have to tell her that. That's where he can be secretly relieved that she wants to stop. He can make it all about her, but inside he's coming to a realization. He wouldn't actually come out to anyone else until further down the road, and by then he can talk to her about seeing guys and getting interested or something. He would totally keep the fact that the incident with her played a role to himself, unless you need him to seem insensitive or trigger a falling out between them of course.
Thanks for all the thoughts.Kaje and everyone else who agreed, I understand your point about Jebbi possibly not wanting to go through with it because of the date rape, but I'm not sure it's going to go that way...Jebbi's pretty stubborn, and I think going through with it would be part of her character. She wants to change her perception of sex, and wants to kind of "so there" the guy who raped her. She isn't passionate about VJ, but he's one of her best and oldest friends, and one of the two people she trusts completely enough to actually try to sleep with. She's been in counseling for 2 years, so it isn't as if she's dealing with a fresh assault that she hasn't gotten any help for.
(Disclaimer: I was date raped in high school, and without going into *how* I know, I believe Jebbi's choice in this case is realistic and reasonable. For that character, at least.)
I do agree that VJ shouldn't tell Jebbi that sleeping with her is what helps him realize he's gay. When he comes out to her, which he does later in this book, she isn't going to be particularly surprised, though; the groundwork was set in Cluing In, and will be solidified in this book, that VJ hasn't had a girlfriend or even a date in three years (except for a couple of friendly "dates" with Jebbi), so Jamey and Jebbi already suspect something's up.
Ralph, I haven't even started writing it yet. LOL. ETA to you is February or March :)
Well, you know your character and in that context she sounds like the kind of girl who would make up her mind and go for it. I have no doubt you can make this scene work really well. The idea seems very plausible (maybe subconsciously she's even thinking he won't get over-excited and carried away, or maybe that's overthinking it.) And I'm so sorry that you have the personal experience to write it from.
As a reader if i knew he slept with her even off screen I would not read it. I am really picky though... and him being willing to sleep with her and her stopping him would still put me off and I would consider reading it after reviews but probably would still not read it. if the romance between the guys has already started developing and he slept with her no review or recommendation would make me read it.But like I said I am picky and you should in no way try to please me with your art I just gave my opinion since you asked
Hehehe Bub, you should hear me going off at characters when they do spmething bad. . I've even been known to vent on face book. . But I (personally), don't read reviews. I like the surprise in reading a story even if the lead does things I don't approve of. . (I've made so many mistakes in my life - you know people in glass houses thing. . )
I do understand where you are coming from though. .
yeah i get people make mistakes not the best choices but and i don't know if you've seen me complain about the extra promiscuous boys in books or not but yeah i don’t like them but in real life I love the promiscuous boys, but it’s not something I want to read about. So yeah I get having characters do stuff I disagree with but something’s like cheating or sex with other people after the romance has started I will not read. Even if they aren’t together yet in the book if the romance has started it still seems like cheating to me.I am a very picky reader though
I seriously have no idea how to talk in here. is saying promiscous better than just saying slut? everytime i post something here i wonder if i am breaking the rules or being too adult for the younger adults
Bubbles (Dane) wrote: "I seriously have no idea how to talk in here. is saying promiscous better than just saying slut? everytime i post something here i wonder if i am breaking the rules or being too adult for the young..."LOL I think saying promiscuous is fine. You're doing fine, so don't fret too much.
I have always talked so dirty even when i was young its hard to know what other people find appropriate
I don't think those sorts of words really matter that much. . There is only a limit on the explicit content. . i.e. Sex on screen is a no go. You should read some of the other topic posts. . Jo, I'm sorry, didn't mean to hijack your topic. . ~wanders off to see how to change his name to "The Hijacker"
Youths talking dirty hasn't really changed. I guess, here we just try to keep it down, set a good example as responsible adults. *snickers*
i havent found my way around much is there a thread for talking about YA books you liked?
Responsible. . ~choke~ I take it you aren't including me in that comment. . And maybe 1 or two others. .
Byron, I'm not including anyone. I mean, I just admitted to being evil today. XD
So i just read an amazing free book about two 17 year olds. They don't have sex but they do rub off on each other. it isn't that detailed but it is there. It was an awesome book though would it be ok to post here or is the fact they rubbed off too much sex for a YA group? where should i be asking this question?
With the exception of the raving pirates thread over in the adult group this is where I hang out on Good reads because the conversations are good, the books are better and the people are the BEST. There are some great threads here about topics and books that will inspire.
Bubbles, when I get to my home comp I send you the appropriate links. But lok in the conversations for what is appropriate thread. It's an going debate. OMG Patricia, I'm so proud of you! Finally admiting the truth. .
Now we really should stop hijacking Jo's thread. Bubbles head over to the whats on your mind area also!
Bubbles (Dane) wrote: "So i just read an amazing free book about two 17 year olds. They don't have sex but they do rub off on each other. it isn't that detailed but it is there. It was an awesome book though would it be ..."Absolutely post that book in What YA Friendly Book Are You Currently Reading? or wherever seems appropriate. We are always looking for the good stuff. The consensus seems to be that for YA the sex must be plot driven, not intended to arouse (ie. not erotica) and not overly explicit in repeatedly naming body parts and actions. But teenagers often have sex, and it is reasonable for the books to contain some sex. We are talking teens, not children here.
edit- oops, turns out the story is fine but the site it is on isn't :(
Jo wrote: "Thanks for all the thoughts.Kaje and everyone else who agreed, I understand your point about Jebbi possibly not wanting to go through with it because of the date rape, but I'm not sure it's going..."
Oh, Jo, I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you in high school. So sorry. I wish I could advise on this issue, but alas, I have no thoughts on the subject. Not within my experiences. Sorry.
Bubbles (Dane) wrote: "oh ok i don't think they even mention body parts and nothing detail you just know whats going on and they mention it leaves their shorts wet. i posted it under a thread but its called [book:Always ..."I'd highly recommend not posting that in this group. The site the story is on is 100% not appropriate for this age group. While that particular story may be, the rest of the site is for poorly written erotica that you're supposed to be 18+ to access.
Thanks, Kaje. And you aren't overthinking; that's exactly part of Jebbi's rationale. She knows VJ won't get carried away and that if she does have to stop him, he won't keep going (which is what happened with the guy who date raped her). Bubbles, VJ isn't involved with his love interest yet when this happens. I don't think they've even met yet; if they have, it was just in passing at a football game between their two schools. So he isn't being disloyal or dishonest to the guy he ends up dating.
Byron, you guys didn't hijack :) Language is something I always wonder about too, both posting in this group and when writing YA. Most of my YA doesn't have much if any sexual content, but on the occasions it does, I always end up wondering if I'm too explicit.
Thanks, Scylar. :)
Then it wouldn't bother. Just after they start building the romance and then sleep with someone else it ruins it for Ralph I deleted the book rec and emailed the author to see if he'd post the story at a better site or blog. That's only story I read there so I didn't know it was such a bad site
Bubbles (Dane) wrote: "Then it wouldn't bother. Just after they start building the romance and then sleep with someone else it ruins it for
Ralph I deleted the book rec and emailed the author to see if he'd post the st..."
Thanks for getting in touch with the author Dane. I'd love to post a link for Always Joey on the GSA if he posts it on a blog. I've never been on that site either, but you made my day sending me that story yesterday :0)
Ralph I deleted the book rec and emailed the author to see if he'd post the st..."
Thanks for getting in touch with the author Dane. I'd love to post a link for Always Joey on the GSA if he posts it on a blog. I've never been on that site either, but you made my day sending me that story yesterday :0)
yeah it sucks it's posted where it is i hope he has it somewhere else
I read the story and it's quite ok.. but I noticed the posting date was quite old.. (2002) so I'm not sure if the email I or Bubbles sent will work.. I have found that quite a few people post with an email addy and after a couple of years they change email's and don't check the old one.. I also searched for story else where - (let me tell you the results were - educational!!!) I had no luck finding it on a site that is friendlier. :(
Stay tuned..
Thanks for doing all the work for us, Byron. I'm glad you're getting an education along with it ;)
As an update: I've been working on this novel, and when I got to the scene where Jebbi talks to V.J. about sleeping together... the characters decided it wasn't going to happen. (Yes, I know, I control my characters, but it sure doesn't feel that way sometimes!)As it ended up in that scene, Jebbi kind of hints at it, V.J. catches on and is tempted, but realizes he would only be doing it because he wants to find out whether he's really gay. And he doesn't want Jebbi to be upset if it doesn't work out. He tells her he isn't ready to have sex with anyone, and she accepts that. (Even though she realizes the truth when he comes out to her a few days later.)
Jo wrote: "As an update: I've been working on this novel, and when I got to the scene where Jebbi talks to V.J. about sleeping together... the characters decided it wasn't going to happen. (Yes, I know, I con..."My characters do that to me too - it will be cool to finally read this and see how it all worked out.
I have no control of my characters. Sounds like the scene worked out perfectly though. =)
I'm glad I'm not the only one with bratty characters! LOL. The scene did turn out well, I think. I'll have to wait and see how I feel about it when I go through it on revisions...
Jo, I like the changes you (or your character) made to the story. Do you have to read the first book to follow what's going on in this one?
Thanks, Yvonne :) No, this book has a different main character and is a different story; it's only part of a series in that the main character is introduced as a minor character in the first book. It takes place during the same time as the first book, and there are some references made to the events of the first book, but you definitely don't have to read the first one to follow this one.
Yvonne wrote: "Jo, I like the changes you (or your character) made to the story. Do you have to read the first book to follow what's going on in this one?"Since my paycheck depends on how many people read the book, yes, yes you do. =P
Hello everyone. I am John Marvin Enore. I have written three poetry collections. they are all sad erotic gay poetry. If you're interested with my books, please send me a message and i can give you a sampler. The tiles are CYPHILIA, ARGELLIUS REX and L'AMOUR DE MOI. They are all available as ebooks. I'll be waiting.
i think this scene is a very beautiful coming of age moment. make her fall in love with him. make it tragic and painful.
Hi, John, and welcome. I don't know if you've introduced yourself yet on the "Introduce Yourself" thread, but if not, please do; people are more likely to see your introduction there than here.As you may have noticed, I originally posted this question a few months ago, so the scene's already written. The girl propositions the guy, he turns her down gently, and a couple days later he comes out to her as gay.
Thank you I already introduced myself in the other topic. I want to review your work when you're done. let's trade. i have three poetry collections. you can choose one.
Thanks for the offer, but I prefer not to read poetry. I also don't generally review other authors' work, particularly when I know them.
Jo wrote: "Thanks for the offer, but I prefer not to read poetry. I also don't generally review other authors' work, particularly when I know them."Yeah, that is one tricky thing to do, isn't it.
Back to the original thread, I like the suggestion that they don't go through with sex. I like the idea of a girl who has been raped and a boy who's gay trying to have a relationship. I can almost envision some long really awkward scenes. It would be a great way to show, rather than tell about his sexuality.
The "what would you think" comes from a random thought that hopped into my head. I've learned to include those random thoughts in my stories, but I'm not a hundred percent sure about including this one.
One of the secondary characters in Cluing In (and in V.J.'s story) is a girl named Jebediah, nicknamed Jebbi. Two years before Cluing In, she was date-raped. She's avoided boys pretty much ever since, except for Jamey and V.J. because they're her best friends. In the scene that hopped into my head, which would be part of V.J.'s story, Jebbi asks him to sleep with her because "the only time I've had sex, it was awful, and I want a better memory."
Initially, the idea was that V.J. would sleep with her, because they are friends; he wants to help her, and he wants to answer his own questions about what he wants. That would be the "lightbulb" moment when he realizes that he really doesn't want to be with girls. I don't know how realistic that would be, and I don't know whether it would tick people off. (The sex, as with all sexual content in my YA, would be off-screen, so to speak.)
As readers--and some of you authors as well--what would you think if you read a scene like that in a book about a gay teen?