"Oryx & Crake" It's the end of the world...

[[deleted user]]

How realistic is it?

Do you think we'd ever get to the point where our civilization matches what is shown in the book?

Or will our future be better? Worse?

[Banner]

Great question. I think the book issued a powerful and realistic warning; however, based on what I see in the lessons of history I don't think we will ever come to that point. Societies tend to ebb and flow. As much as I love America, I don't believe that it will always be the world power that it is today.

I have to admit it is scary to see how our technology has advanced to the point were this kind of thing could be imagined.

[[deleted user]]

Banner wrote: "As much as I love America, I don't believe that it will always be the world power that it is today."

You take that back. You take that back right now! :P

I can maybe see the genetic engineering getting up to that level, but just don't believe it would ever become as widespread.

Folks would riot or at the very least demonstrate against the use of something like a pigoon.

[Weenie]

As much as I love America, I don't believe that it will always be the world power that it is today.

Agree - in the current spate of movies, the evil geniuses of the world are British more often than not, so one of them is likely to be successful in the future! ;-)

[Evilynn]

Ala wrote: "Folks would riot or at the very least demonstrate against the use of something like a pigoon. "

Weeell... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia...

Since there is a serious shortage of organ donations, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe there'd be a huge demand for it. If your options are to die or get a heart that used to be in a pig, I think most people will say oink and go for it.

[Maggie]

Evilynn wrote: "Ala wrote: "Folks would riot or at the very least demonstrate against the use of something like a pigoon. "

Weeell... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia...

Since there is a serious sho..."

Not me! Gods....What kind of life is that? But then, like Im always explaining to everyone, I am kinda wierd...

[Banner]

I don't think I'll ever look at chicken breast the same way. :)

[Evilynn]

Maggie wrote: "Not me! Gods....What kind of life is that? "

One where you're alive rather than dead? My moral qualms about it would be more about the life of the pigs, but I'm quite sure I'd be happy to take a pig grown heart if it meant a new lease of life (and I'm a vegetarian, so I normally avoid getting bits of pig in me, but I'm also rather pragmatic ;)).

[[deleted user]]

Alright. I concede that the pigoons might not be so bad. But I draw the line at ChickieNobs.

[Evilynn]

...Well, there's that vat grown meat the scientists are currently working on... ;D (admittedly less creepy than the ChickieNobs, and a lot less creepy than current factory farming too for that matter)

[[deleted user]]

I'm just gonna stop eating...

[Evilynn]

Maybe Atwood can peddle O&C as the Next Great Diet? ;)

On a slightly more serious level (or not), I sort of want a rakunk.

[David]

You can train the palate to eat just about anything, and you can condition the mind to overlook where that anything might have come from. Genetic engineering is catastrophic rather than gradual. When you tweak the environment in a catastrophic way, there’s always the possibility of catastrophic instability (like the first nuclear test at Alamogordo “igniting” the atmosphere). Our limbic brain doesn’t fear what it can’t sense, and it’s too easy for engineers to become distracted (i.e., shut down the cognitive process and respond affectively) by the coolness of the things we do (rakunk? certainly would keep the neighbor’s dog off the lawn).

[Peggy]

Maybe I'm all bitter and cynical, but I totally see it. Not to get all political, but how far are we from having the 1% living in luxary compounds they never have to leave, benefiting from technological advances the rest of us will never even know about?

Being a dog lover, I was horrified by the wolvogs. Man's Best Friend should not be turned into a stealth killer.

[Valerie]

Evilynn wrote: "Ala wrote: "Folks would riot or at the very least demonstrate against the use of something like a pigoon. "

Weeell... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia..."

And here's a more recent article from io9, posted just a few weeks ago: http://io9.com/5852380/pig+to+human-t...

Hah, and on the subject of ChickieNobs, I went over to Margaret Atwood's Twitter and somebody had tweeted her this link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...

D:

[David]

Peggy,

The oligarchy isn’t keen on cleaning their own toilets, let alone dressing their own pigoons, and they need the underclass to keep the working class willing to slice up their “other white meat.” I’ve been a vegetarian for about 8 years, but when I bring this up to my dog, he looks at me like I’m nuts. If he saw a slab of pigoon (or maybe even a rakunk, provided it was running away and he hadn’t smelled it first) he’d be licking his lips.

[Bill]

I doubt the mammalian gengineering will reach the levels in the books, this century at least, though it's possible. Grains and plant foodstuffs are another story. I see the animals also as a metaphor for those that survive after environmental changes as happened after the dinosaur extinction.

I think the social collapse and the corporate 'feudal' system as well as the environmental changes and plagues much more likely, if not inevitable.

The entire book IMO is a warning of what the future could realistically be like if the human infestation doesn't change its ways, now.

[Peggy]

David - agreed. I'm also a vegetarian, and have made peace with the fact that my Border Collie Sam has commited bunnicide on many occasions. Plus, "Eat a Squirrel" has been at the top of his bucket list for as long as I've known him.

I was more thinking that it would be so horrible to be in this grim future, especially post-apocolypse, be all alone. Then you see this cute puppy, maybe a beagle or a golden retriever. You run to it, all "YAY, now I have a friend," and it goes for your jugular. And you die. :-)

[David]

Yeah, sounds a little Jack London-y.

[Maggie]

It reminded me in a way of The Windup Girl, which dealt with bio-engineered plants and seeds. I really liked that book too

[Banner]

You know The Hunger Games had a strong element of gene manipulation (not quite to the same level).

[Kelley]

This is probably a dumb question, but how far into the future do you think this is?

[[deleted user]]

Not dumb and no clue.

Guess? Maybe thirty to fifty?

[Kelley]

Yeah, I was thinking towards the end of the 21st century as well. But then again, they're still using cell phones and DVDs.

[David]

Sounds about right. It's been a year since I read this but I got the impression that the Jimmy flashbacks were supposed to be near future (maybe ten years--although that would make it 2013, and like a lot of near future ScFi, we never quite seem to get there on time). Crake seems 40-something. I guess the better question is, how long would it take for a GM species to take over? How long was it from the introduction of rabbits in Austraila (so they could also import foxes and have something to chase on their horses)until the rabbits became a problem?

[David]

Ok, I googled it: 39 years (1788-1827). But this was a single invasive species. With an agenda, 20 years to FUBAR seems reasonable.

[Kelley]

Really interesting way to look at it, David. And you're right, we are talking about a span of time from Jimmy flashbacks to Snowman.

[Valerie]

I thought it was in the ballpark of 30 years as well. David's thoughts on foxes made me wonder about zebra mussels - here's a map of those from their introduction in 1988: http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/mollu...

[Kelley]

That's kind of a terrifying graphic.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Kelley wrote: "That's kind of a terrifying graphic."

^

[Veronika KaoruSaionji]

I think that can really happen in very close future, similar or worse. Everything of these things can be real tomorrow or in less than one century. This is real danger - so great that most of people don´t believe in it (till their deaths). :o)
But I hope, I believe, that this is not our future. This really can happen, but it will not happen. Because humankind is not so much stupid. I want to believe in it. :o)

[Zulfiya]

I have a dubious feeling - first, it does sound both far-fetched and also threateningly ominous. I do hope we have much more common sense to avoid the genetic glitches. I totally support the science, but I do believe that scientists know they are playing with fire and there some viable check and balance mechanism in modern society.
On the other hand, let's look at some other examples of speculative fiction, like or . When they were written, some of it had already been true, and so much was accurately predicted. This novel is a good reason to stop to think what we are doing and where we are moving and if progress is intrinsically connected with social, economic, and cultural benefits. And hopefully, I am not a prophet of doom:-)

[MK]

Did anyone get a sense of where this book was supposedly set? It seemed like it might be Chicago-area-ish, but the ocean was only a few days walk (was that b/c of environmental devastation and sea rise?)

Was it closer to the coast? Was it in America at all? Could have been Canada, maybe Montreal-ish, or Quebec-ish?

[Michael]

I didn't ever decide on that. It helped that the geography was so different - changing ocean levels, castle-like armaments amongst vast pleeblands - it made it seem like a different Earth altogether and so I wasn't as concerned as where things were happening. Although didn't they mention traveling to New York and the West Coast? I know Atwood is Canadian, so they could have been traveling to the States from there.

[MK]

Michael wrote: "Although didn't they mention traveling to New York and the West Coast? I know Atwood is Canadian, so they could have been traveling to the States from there.
..."

Yes, they did. Also, they mentioned 'Pleeblands' west of Chicago, too. One reason I sortof thought it was somewhere in the center of the North American contintent-ish.

And, true. It was SO very different, it was almost another earth. The reason I asked was for an 'around the world' challenge in another group ;-).

I couldn't decide if it was US, Canada, or "Out of this World". heh ~

[Michael]

Ha, you could just put North A-Crake-ia!

[MK]

lol! love it ...

[Robyn]

I thought it was the midWest as well; there used to be a sea in the middle of the US (Triassic/Jurassic, maybe? I can't remember). Perhaps it came back during global warming! But it's all rather unclear. At one point I thought it was definitely supposed to be set in Canada, but that wasn't my impression from Year of the Flood.