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Past Group Book Discussions > The Honour of the Knights - Stephen Sweeney - How are you getting on

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message 1: by Simon (Highwayman) (last edited Nov 01, 2011 04:19AM) (new)

Simon (Highwayman) (highwayman) | 4698 comments The Honour of the Knights (First Edition)

How did it go? Reviews here. If you know how to tag spoilers then they can go here, otherwise please wait for the book discussion thread to open.

The Honour of the Knights (First Edition)

There is a second edition of this book, but as this was the 'free' selection for November I have linked to the first edition above.

Maybe Mhairi will let us know if there is anything important we should know about the two editions (apart from £1.99)

message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

I've just downloaded the free version (I hadn't before as I don't read much scifi/fantasy) but I've decided to give this one a go.

Good three choices again folks!


message 3: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments I'm happy to cough up the cash for this but I'd like to know we are all reading the same version.

message 4: by Simon (Highwayman) (last edited Nov 01, 2011 04:37AM) (new)

Simon (Highwayman) (highwayman) | 4698 comments I might be sticking my neck out here to be chopped off Ignite, but as this was the free selection for the month so I suppose we should all read the First Edition.

I would like to know the difference too.....

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 61757 comments Any point in trying to contact the author, Simon?

message 6: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments Happy to go with that Simon - I'll wait to see what the consensus is.

message 7: by Kate (new)

Kate (littlekate1) | 574 comments I'd already downloaded this ready to read (love free kindle books;b) so shall be reading that edition.

message 8: by Mhairi (last edited Nov 01, 2011 09:08AM) (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments Sorry I'm late to the party! I chose this book because it appealed to me on a number of levels. Firstly, I love the idea of men doing the right thing. It appeals to the romantic in me :D

Also, I like stories that involve a closeknit group taking on the Big Bad. I'm a fan of buddy movies that also involve fast, powerful and quite possibly dangerous machines. Hence my love of Top Gun and the Transformers franchise (although don't get me started on the last one...).

Edit: And I didn't even think about there being a second edition. I just picked this off the freebies list. I suspect the second one has had another editing pass and maybe some sections have been rewritten - that's based on the usual reasons for new editions being released of indie books. Still, I can always contact the author and ask :D

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 61757 comments I'm sure the author will be pleased to hear he was chosen, too. Perhaps we'll be offered the updated version, which would be very nice.

message 10: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments Hi all! Mhairi informed me about the group and that you'd be reading HOTK this month, and invited me along to answer any questions and talk about it.

I guess the first question is about the differences between the first and second edition.

The most immediate one is that the first edition is a free book, licensed under Creative Commons. The second edition was written with a view to approach agents and publishers, but unfortunately they still weren't keen on it.

There is a noticeable change in style in the second edition, in that Kelly Taylor's journal is now presented in the form a memoir, allowing it to present a much wider and more informed view of events that occur in the novel, as well as events yet to occur.

Also, there's more characterisation in the second edition, with Dodds' trial and his conviction of manslaughter examined a little more closely. Estelle isn't quite as neurotic as in the first edition either.

And like has already been suggested, there are rewritten scenes and a couple of new chapters, as well as an extended prologue.

The second edition is about 146,000 words, while the first edition is about 124,000. So... a little more has been added! ;)

There's a more in-depth explanation here (but be careful, as it contains spoilers):

I generally suggest people pick up the second edition if they're intending on reading the whole trilogy, though reading the first edition as a standalone book is fine.

If you've got any more questions then fire away!

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 61757 comments Welcome, Stephen and it's lovely of you to join us!

I hope you'll be able to find time to spend with us as we enjoy your book this month.

You'll find we're a fun and very friendly group. Rather bonkers, as well.

I'd be especially pleased if you'd start your very own author thread and tell us more about yourself and how your book came about. I hope you'd consider that thread to be your home in our group where you can discuss anything.
Also, please have a look around and discover for yourself how silly we can be.

Again thanks so much for joining us! This is going to be fun!

message 12: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments This book has been instantly promoted from 'further back' in my TBR list to 'next to go'. I look forward to it.

message 13: by Philip (sarah) (new)

Philip (sarah) Willis | 5174 comments I have the first edition copy,is that ok or should I get the second?

Simon (Highwayman) (highwayman) | 4698 comments I think we are all going with the first edition Sarah....

message 15: by Philip (sarah) (new)

Philip (sarah) Willis | 5174 comments Thanks Simon,I get confused enough never mind if I were reading a different edition from everyone else.Lol.

message 16: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments Yay!!! Stephen joined us! Woot!! Honour is next up on my TBR list. Handily I just finished a book this morning :D

message 17: by Freddiesmum (new)

Freddiesmum | 137 comments one clicked and ready to go....welcome Stephen! I love it when we have the author here!

message 18: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments The core story between the first and second editions are identical. You won't find that the endings or key events are different.

The second edition is (in my opinion) a better read, with better characterisation and some rewritten scenes. The prologue in the second edition is a lot more in-depth, but you can you always grab the first three chapters as an excerpt on my website:

For the purpose of the November reading, probably best to grab the first edition (which is free from pretty much everywhere..!)

Steve :)

message 19: by Chookgate (new)

Chookgate | 74 comments I know the club is reading the first edition, but it sounds like the sort of thing I'd enjoy, and I may not get around to reading it in time for the discussions, so on the author's recommendation I've downloaded a sample of the second edition.

I haven't even managed any of October's reads yet - as well as being swamped at work and over tired, I've been battling a recurrent eye infection which has been making reading difficult! So, apologies Stephen, it may be a while before I get to read this.

message 20: by Philip (sarah) (new)

Philip (sarah) Willis | 5174 comments Hope you feel better soon Chookgate.

message 21: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments I'm going well on it. There's just been an alarm and they're battling hangovers. Those of you who have got that far know what I'm talking about :) The headhopping is a bit distracting at times, but I'm enjoying the story. There seem to be a few possible romantic pairings, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that pans out!!

message 22: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments Have you not already read it Mhairi?

message 23: by Chookgate (new)

Chookgate | 74 comments Thanks Sarah, the worst is the eye, 5 minutes of reading and it starts watering and then goes all sticky and blurred! It's getting better though.

message 24: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments I hadn't read it before. The problem with picking a free book is that a lot of them don't stay free, so I chose this on on the basis of the cover, the title and the blurb. I actually finished it a few days ago. With everything that's been going on I didn't get back here to talk about it? How's everyone else doing with it?

I really enjoyed the book. Like I said before, the headhopping was rather distracting. One minute you're in one person's POV and the next, sometimes in the same paragraph, you're in someone else's.

Apart from that though, I found it a really really good read. The tension and pacing were great, and I found the plotline believable, in terms of who turned up when and whether or not they saved the day (don't want to give too much away for those who haven't read it yet).

Other people's opinions? Chookgate, how's your eye?

message 25: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments I'm only 15% in and have stalled really. Science Fiction is one of my favoured genres but I have actually found this bland so far. I will persist.

message 26: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments @Mhairi - Glad to hear that you enjoyed it. The headhopping. Yes, that was something that I sought to rectify and fix in the second edition (and I think there are only two or three instances of it in there).

You probably noticed the head hopping mostly during the action sequence, when I attempted to present what was going on through an omnipresent point of view. In the rewrite, it is all from Dodds' POV. The chapter "The Cardinal and the Thief" is also shown entirely from Williams' POV (discounting the meeting that Parks and Turner had afterwards).

One scene that I hated (no, really - can't stand it) in the FE was the bit where Kelly almost misses the patrol and Estelle has to fetch her. I ripped out that sequence entirely and replaced it with one where Dodds speak to Enrique of his feelings about his court martial.

Natalia also gets a few more scenes and a little bit of backstory.

The second book, THE THIRD SIDE, has no headhopping (as far as I remember). It's mostly presented on a character per chapter basis, so doesn't wander about ;)

Do give it a shot if you fancy finding out what happens next.

@Ignite - Sorry to hear you're not finding it too hot. If you're finding the opening chapters slow, then that's a criticism that I've heard quite a lot, and am happy to accept. Most find the pace picks up nicely though, and many have told me that the last 1/4 of the book is well worth it. But I'll await your opinion ;)

Steve :)

message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

I've just been reading your comments with interest Steve. Although I have downloaded the book, I haven't started to read it yet. It was struck however, by how great it is to have access to authors when reading these books - without the indie scene and groups like this, this situation would never have been possible before. It's fantastic!


message 28: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments @Stephen: I actually didn't notice the headhopping so much during the action scenes, probably because I could understand why it was there. I noticed it more in quiet scenes where Dodds is thinking something and then suddenly we get Estelle thinking and sulking about something. Really threw me in those parts. In general I felt the headhopping often happened right when you were feeling kind of uncomfortable, along with the character you were with. Then suddenly you were pulled out of their head and thrust into someone else's, but not for long enough to really start empathising with the new head, as it were. Very frustrating. Really glad you've edited that out!!

@Ignite: It's not the fastest of starts. To be honest (sorry, Stephen) I came close to putting it down a few times, but because I'd chosen it for the group read I persevered.

message 29: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments @Mhairi - Hey, no worries, I've done the same with novels I've read too. Usually, I put them aside and read something else, and then come back to them later. I think I only once stopped reading entirely (Hidden Empire, Saga of the Seven Suns).

Luckily, the start of The Third Side is quite a rollercoaster by comparison to the start of Knights ;) Also, the second book (and the second edition) have a different approach to Kelly's journal, wherein it's a memoir instead of a straight journal set in the present. I was forced to change to that style during the writing of The Third Side, due to how the events transpire. I like it a lot more, as it allows me the freedom to make references to future events and talk more freely about what the implications are for recent events.

Oh... and I dialled down Estelle's neuroticism a few notches too. I do have a flashback in the TTS that goes a little way to explaining why she is like that though ;)

message 30: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments I can handle Estelle's neurotics. I figured she had to have a reason for being that way. It was just the headhopping that annoyed me :)

message 31: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments Looks like Amazon UK have stopped offering the book for free for the moment.

Not to worry, you can still get it for free in various other places:



And it's also available on the iBookstore, Barnes and Noble, Sony Reader Store, and Kobo ;)

message 32: by Jud (new)

Jud (judibud) | 18540 comments I've just started this book last night. Sci-fi isnt my usual genre although I'm not fussy. I am intrigued already about the man at the house (sorry i'm terrible remembered names and places from books) the man was called Dean. I'm not that far through it yet but enjoying it so far :o)

message 33: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments Glad you're enjoying it, Jud! I think there are definitely a number of unanswered questions raised in the book. I'm assuming these are longer plot threads that will be resolved in later books. Stephen? Any input?

message 34: by Jud (new)

Jud (judibud) | 18540 comments it was a good choice Mhairi I'm glad you picked it cause I never would have myself simply because its sci-fi (i dont know if it really is but anything that happens in space is sci-fi in my opinion)

message 35: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments Many of the plot points raised in Knights are explored further and resolved in The Third Side.

There are a few questions that remain unanswered in the second book too, which will be tied up in the last book (which I'm currently in the process of writing).

HOTK and TTS essentially form the beginning and middle of the Battle for the Solar System story. There's only going to be three books, as I don't intend on turning this into a long running series :)

I wanted to create a sense of tremendous impending doom in the books (which is shown in HOTK, when the White Knights encounter the Pandoran soldiers, both at Aster and at Arlos Starport).

Things go from bad to worse in TTS too, and I'm sure the ending of the second book will make you itch to find out how it'll all end ;)

message 36: by Jane (new)

Jane (beetlejane) | 82 comments I have had this book awhile, but it is now next on my TBR :-)

message 37: by Kath (new)

Kath Middleton | 25063 comments I am still finding it difficult to get into. I had another go but it's not engaging me. I am a persistent beggar though!

message 38: by Mhairi (new)

Mhairi Simpson (mhairisimpson) | 1158 comments Ignite wrote: "I am still finding it difficult to get into. I had another go but it's not engaging me. I am a persistent beggar though!"

Full marks for keeping at it, Ignite. But if it's really not your thing, don't feel you have to force your way through. It won't be for everyone. No book is :)

message 39: by Jud (new)

Jud (judibud) | 18540 comments I'm feeling a bit the same Ignite, its a good story but just not one that really holds my interest. I'm not not (that double not is intentional!) enjoying it though I just find it easy to get distracted from reading it. I don't like to give up on a book so I shall persevere, I am nearly a third of the way through it so far

Gingerlily - The Full Wild | 36808 comments I am about two thirds of the way through and I am enjoying it. There are all sorts of mysterious hints that i am trying to join up in my head - be interesting to see if i'm right.

message 41: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments @Jud - Hopefully you'll get more into it when the pace picks up ;)

@Gingerlily - You won't get all the answers in the first book, but would be interesting to hear your theories and questions :)

message 42: by Jud (new)

Jud (judibud) | 18540 comments we'll soon see Stephen :o) I'm off for lunch and a spot of kindle-ing

message 43: by T.S. (new)

T.S. (roseshadows) | 17 comments Hi, I'm a little late but I have downloaded the free edition today. Looking forward to reading it.

Gingerlily - The Full Wild | 36808 comments I just finished it yesterday. Pretty good stuff. Lots of questions left unanswered. You tease!

message 45: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments @Gingerlily - Good, good! Glad you enjoyed it! You'll get closure on a lot of the questions raised in the second book (The Third Side), if you choose to continue the story ;)

@Teresa - Do let me know how you get on :)

message 46: by T.S. (new)

T.S. (roseshadows) | 17 comments I will do, thank you Stephen.

message 47: by Jacquie (new)

Jacquie | 99 comments Ifinished it on Sunday and have added the second book to my wishlist.

message 48: by Stephen (new)

Stephen Sweeney (stephenjsweeney) | 12 comments @Jacquie Awesome! :D

message 49: by Jane (new)

Jane (beetlejane) | 82 comments I have just started it, enjoying so far!

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