Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Harry Potter, #6) Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince discussion


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I secretly suspect Dumbledore and Gandalf are one in the same

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Badgerlord Does anyone else agree that the similarities between Dumbledore and Gandalf are amazing?

I mean, Dumbledore is missing for a lot the the Harry Potter series, and so is Gandalf for the Hobbit. Dumbledore knowns a lot of good characters (he knew Riddle, James, etc.), and so did Gandalf (the Eagles, the bear guy in the Hobbit). Dumbledore is crippled when searching for Horocruxes, Gandalf is badly injured before ascending the stairs and turning into Gandalf the White. At the end of the Harry Potter books Dumbledore is killed (he spends a while waiting for Harry in the half dead place) and at the end of the Lord of the Rings, Gandalf leaves on the boat.

Does anyone else think is to odd to be coincidence?
Or am I even more crazy than my friends claim?


Connie J.estrada Badgerlord wrote: "Does anyone else agree that the similarities between Dumbledore and Gandalf are amazing?

I mean, Dumbledore is missing for a lot the the Harry Potter series, and so is Gandalf for the Hobbit. Du..."


I have never thought of it, but the way you spelled it out, well it does have merit. I (no offence) am not a LORD OF THE RINGS fan, but I have always thought that the actor that played Gandorf would have played a much better Dumbledore. My husband is the LORD OF THE RINGS nerd, I am the HARRY POTTER nerd, we are made for eachother:}


Haitham Youssef I always had this feeling since the first part, i even was annoyed that they didn't get the same actor from the Lord of the Rings Movie.


Yolo Yearwood I am currently reading the Fellowship of the Ring and I am a huge fan of the Potter series. ***It's funny I found this discussion,*** because last night I noticed that Gandalf and Dumbledore are Way too similar, as well as The Death Riders and the Dementors!! And the name of the innkeeper in the Fellowship is Bob Butterbur, which instantly made me think of Butterbeer from the HP books.


PostCardashian Kim I think that the old wizard character is such a standard, it's hard to make him original


Debbie Hazeleger IF I understand my Propp correctly, Gandalf and Dumbledore both fulfill the "helper" role, the donor role and possible the dispatcher rule as well. What that boils down to is the ye old wise mentor type figure. I would argue that technically speaking Gandalf is a maia, so he's a Deity type person, where Dumbles is powerful, but still a relatively normal wizard headmaster ;)


Susan When one writes an Epic tale about a Hero who faces dangers, there has to be a wise counselor figure. Gandalf and Dumbledore are the wise counselors in their series, so yes, you'll find a lot of similarities. I wish Dumbledore could have pulled a Gandalf and come back as more than just a portrait.


Cristy Michele wrote: "Obi-Wan Kenobi fulfils the same role too. In fact I'd go so far as to say that The Lord of the Rings, the Harry Potter series and the Star Wars movies tell what is essentially the same story played..."
Agreed.


Nancy Stephan I'm convinced that there would be no Harry Potter if there had been no Bilbo & Frodo Baggins. Not only are the characters archtypes of each other, but even the names of people and places are similar.
(Willow tree, the ring, the Dark Lord, Frodo's & Harry's headaches the closer they came to vanquishing the Dark Lords, etc...)

However, I don't think this is a bad thing. Rowling was able to build upon her predecessor's brilliance and take the concepts to new heights. Hats off to both Tolkien & Rowling.


Juliet just gonna say I laughed out loud when I read the title of this thread


Juliet Oh and I think if we're comparing series here we should add in Chiron from Percy Jackson. I don't think he is nearly as awesome but plays the same role as Obi, Dumby, and Gandalf


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Badgerlord wrote: "Does anyone else agree that the similarities between Dumbledore and Gandalf are amazing?

I mean, Dumbledore is missing for a lot the the Harry Potter series, and so is Gandalf for the Hobbit. Du..."


I don't think you are crazy but have you ever read Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Adventure: Power of Myth 1 or any of his other books?


message 14: by Erika L. (new) - added it

Erika L. Miller ROFLMBO. I just had to share this title with my sibs. Thanks for the chuckle and the idea.


message 15: by 8 (new) - rated it 4 stars

8 Jk rowling got a lot of her inspiration from lord of the rings like, dumbledore & maybe dobby is like gollum. maybe Harry is like Frodo and Ron is like Sam. Who knows?


Jacob personally I think that there is alot of things that are the same but... I just can't help thinking that in the movies that The evil wizard (I'm blanking on his name) looks exactly like Count Duku from star wars. I'm retty sure it's the same person but I didn't have time to check.


Jacob and I know that's kind of off topic but I just had to say it>


message 18: by 8 (new) - rated it 4 stars

8 Jacob wrote: "personally I think that there is alot of things that are the same but... I just can't help thinking that in the movies that The evil wizard (I'm blanking on his name) looks exactly like Count Duku ..."

that IS count duku from star wars


Kressel Housman If you ask me, the real life Dumbledore is right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMcHtS...


Georgie Anyone here heard of Merlin from the King Arthur stories. I tend to think of him as the Grand-father of Gandalf and Dumbledore.


Sophie Who is Gandalf?? Oh and what in Merlin's Beard?


♫♡вℓυє cσηνєяѕє♡♫™ Well, not all of it is coincidental, because, J.K. Rowling DID say she was inspired by C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien (hence the initials), so I would bet my life that she did some of that on purpose.


Sophie Still who is Ganddalf?


message 24: by 8 (new) - rated it 4 stars

8 Gandalf is the wizard in lord of the Rings who helps Frodo on his journey to destroy the ring in the fires of Mordor. he is also known as Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White


Sophie I didn't like that series, but I think that Dumbledore is kind of like Scoorge, but he is nice instead.


message 26: by Tim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tim Mckinstry They are old, go off attending their own (and others) affairs, have been badly injured during their life and disappear at the end of their life.

Many old men could claim the same ;)


Connie J.estrada Once the actor that first portrayed "DUMBLEDORE" in the the "Sorcerers Stone" & "The Chamber Of Secrets" passed away, I thought immediately of the actor that played Gandalf in LORD OF THE RINGS. He just had that wizzarding look.


Badgerlord Hurin wrote: "I think you're way off with this.
If there are some simularities it's that both of them are called wizards and they have long grey hair and beards, thats where all simularities end.
Try to read Tol..."


I've now read the Silmarillion, and I'd don't see where your coming from. I get that there origins weren't going to be the same (or that at least one of the two is lying about theirs).

And some other 'coincidental' simalarities;

#Spoilers#

Gandalf - Dumbledore
Ring of Power - Eldar Wand
Loses memory - Keeps memories in jar
Slightly crazy - Slightly crazy
Recognises coming war - One of first to acknowlege war
Co-worker of an evil - Was teacher of the evil
Spurs Rohan into action - Prepares Hogwarts for war
Has the eagles in his debt - Owns a pheonix


message 29: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa well, both are built on archaetypes, so not a surprise about similarites - including Star Wars, also built on archaetypal hero's journey stuff (George Lucas even says so, and was very inspired by Joseph Campbell, who's life work was archaetype and hero's journey).

I agree with the person who said the actor playing Gandalf (Ian McKellan) would have made a much better Dubledore (Michael Gambone). I thought Gambone was pretty awful.


Emily Colby PostCardashian wrote: "I think that the old wizard character is such a standard, it's hard to make him original"

Totally agree.
and does anyone else think that the chapter about King's Cross (# 7) is really weird?



message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

Emily wrote: "PostCardashian wrote: "I think that the old wizard character is such a standard, it's hard to make him original"

Totally agree.
and does anyone else think that the chapter about King's Cross (# ..."

I do.

Badgerlord wrote: "Does anyone else agree that the similarities between Dumbledore and Gandalf are amazing?

I mean, Dumbledore is missing for a lot the the Harry Potter series, and so is Gandalf for the Hobbit. Dumb..."

Don't worry. I don't think you're crazy. I kind of noticed those things myself.


message 32: by Jeni (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jeni Funnily, one of the discussions my family had after reading HBP was "Well, of course, he'll transform to Dumbledore the White and come back!"

I agree that there are similarities between Gandalf, Dumbledore, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and even Spock in the new Star Trek. But, despite those similar roles, they are not the same. Being an older, wiser, father-figure character will mean you have similar characteristics that remind us of others.

Also, I believe Gandalf was just as manipulative as Dumbledore when it comes right down to it. As was Yoda to Luke, Obi-Wan to Anakin, and even Spock to the younger Jim in the new Star Trek. Hindsight is so beneficial when viewing the bigger picture and these wiser icons know how to bring about change through others.

It's a pretty standard literary formula and a good one! These are all characters we love!


message 33: by Pia (new) - rated it 5 stars

Pia Margić Ofcourse, but that is only one of many similarities;
Gandalf=Dumbledore (wise old man with dark secrets);
Kings=Dementors (nightmares, etc);
Frodo=Harry (bright eyes, unexpected small hero);
Merry and Pippin=Fred and George (noble, yet mischievous);
Red Eye of Sauron= Transformed Voldy (redeyed villain);
Samwise (bit dumb, marries in the end)=Ron(bit dumb, though marries Hermy);
Ent=Aragog (rumoured extinct species, battles for the cause in the end); etc.

A rip-off, but at least it's good one.


message 34: by [deleted user] (last edited Aug 29, 2012 08:01AM) (new)

Faith wrote: "Dumbledore was a manipulator.
Right.


message 35: by Jenn (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jenn Haitham wrote: "I always had this feeling since the first part, i even was annoyed that they didn't get the same actor from the Lord of the Rings Movie."

Then Ian McKellen would have been Gandalf, Magneto AND Dumbledore... I don't think one person can contain that much awesome.


message 36: by Gianluca (last edited Aug 30, 2012 01:25AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Gianluca Pia wrote: "Ofcourse, but that is only one of many similarities;
Gandalf=Dumbledore (wise old man with dark secrets);
Kings=Dementors (nightmares, etc);
Frodo=Harry (bright eyes, unexpected small hero);
Merr..."


Also, both Frodo and Harry have a scar that hurts whenever the one responsible for it is near (Voldemort for Harry and the Witch-king of Angmar for Frodo).
Speaking of Voldemort; the Dark Lord Voldemort who *SPOILERS* hides fragments of his soul inside objects (Horcruxes) seeking immortality, and cannot die as long as these exists - Dark Lord Sauron who forges The One Ring, not only to control the other Rings of Power, but also to make himself more powerful and immortal, since he cannot die as long as The One Ring exists.
Similarities between these two series are numerous and obvious, since J.K. Rowling, like countless other authors, took inspiration from J.R.R. Tolkien.


Sparrowlicious Same character archtype: Merlin.

Gives the hero a quest and keeps in the background instead of solving all the problems himself, even though he could. Then, vanishes, all hope is lost, etc. Just that in Harry's case everything turns out to be right in the end.
Gandalf isn't the one who throws the ring into the fire - he sends Frodo on his quest, helps out here and then, gets lost in the caves or Moria only to return and be of help again - well, not for the main hero, but...

Merlin on the other hand is an archtype character who is said to be inspired by the celtic druids. There's the theory that without a druid the king couldn't reign properly.


Badgerlord Faith wrote: "Wanna see a rip off , read Eragon or Hunger Games . They are both rip offs of different novels and they. aren't.very.good."

I thought Eragon was passable. What was Hunger Games a rip off of?


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message 40: by Beth A. (new)

Beth A. I usually don't get into these threads but I will say,if only because I love this quote,I believe Gandalf is a bit more cranky at times and more independent...

"Fool of a Took! Do us all a favor and throw yourself in next time!"


Despair Speaking Awesome theory. It is obvious that J.K. Rowling was inspired by Gandalf when she wrote D. They have so many similarities.


message 42: by Raven (new)

Raven Pummill Haha they probably are but there are several similarities between Harry potter and lord of the rings. Im sure Rowling read it growing up.


Silver PostCardashian wrote: "I think that the old wizard character is such a standard, it's hard to make him original"

Haha, true. Also, the actor who played Gandalf would have been better suited to play Dumbledore than Michael Gambon. I loved the actor(Richard Harris) who played the first two movies in HP. He was closer to how I imagined Dumbledore would be .


Wm. Scott Conway Gandalf was patterned after Odin from Norse Mythology. When you consider the idea that Dumbledore is patterned after Odin, then the connection breaks down.

It is possible to say that Gandalf inspired Rowling in making Dumbledore. But to say they're the same is a bit of a stretch.

Dumbledore should be so lucky.


message 45: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Silver wrote: "PostCardashian wrote: "I think that the old wizard character is such a standard, it's hard to make him original"

Haha, true. Also, the actor who played Gandalf would have been better suited to pla..."


Silver, I so agree! I couldn't stand Michael Gambone in the role, thought his acting was generally poor (never felt like he 'got' the role), and when Harris was replaced, it sort of ruined the character for me. Ian McKellan would have been amazing in the Dumbledore role. Oh well, I can dream!


message 46: by Anna (last edited Aug 14, 2013 11:54PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anna Georgina wrote: "Anyone here heard of Merlin from the King Arthur stories. I tend to think of him as the Grand-father of Gandalf and Dumbledore."

I always thought the inspiration for Dumbledore came from Merlin! You know, the long beard, the bird (Merlin had a falcon or owl, Dumbledore had Fawkes), the phenomenal cosmic powers. . . ;)

Richard Harris was how I imagined Dumbledore too! He's still how I picture Dumbledore.(Michael Gambon is a good actor, just not for Dumbledore.)


message 47: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Actually, all are the archaetype of the magus - magician, wise old man, beyond human, idealized father.

I need to see Gambon in something else to judge - and glad to hear you think he's a good actor Eliza. It's possible to be a good actor - even a great one - and not be right for a part. I actually thought Emma Thompson was miscast as Sybil Trelawny and I love Emma Thompson! Who I think is a truly great actress. But I thought she was too earthy-'heavy' for Trelawny. I've known people like that (Trelawny) - sort of batty-insect-like, and I don't think Thompson hit it.


Maggie Similar, maybe, but not that much. Dumbledore is his own character.


message 49: by Silver (last edited Aug 20, 2013 01:15AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Silver Eliza wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Anyone here heard of Merlin from the King Arthur stories. I tend to think of him as the Grand-father of Gandalf and Dumbledore."

I always thought the inspiration for Dumbledore ca..."


True, Eliza. Gambon didn't work for me. He looked young to be the ancient Dumbledore, and he just can't stand still. He's acts...frantic. And his costume/robe, just NO. Harris's big, dark robes were majestic, while Gambon's looked dull and colourless.

And I loved the hat Harris wore. ;)


Peter Castine As Rose wrote about 30 posts ago: Dumbledore and his ilk are all representatives of the same archetype. The archetype is older than Gandalf or Dumbledore or Obi-Wan Kenobe, it was an ancient archetype when Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote about Merlin a thousand years ago. Go back to Roman and Greek and Norse and Vedic mythology and the archetype is there.


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